A sad day for Arnold... [:frown:]Follow

He should have said "F[b][/b]uck off California", then thrown a grenade into the assembly.

Is it any wonder that more people are moving out of this state than moving in*?




Except for some minority. A dollar if you can guess which one....

No fair...you looked it up.

All this time, Cali was just leading Arnold on. She flirts so shamelessly!

Ggrarr! Bush angry! Bush smash!!

Mexicans are expanding rapidly but, I don't think Asians are that far behind.

Edited, Wed Nov 9 14:28:05 2005 by fenderputy

This special election gave Ahnold exactly what he deserved-- nothing. The guy blew every bit of his political capital on inconsequential stuff, deliberately provoked his party's opponents, and hasn't addressed a single issue that sunk Gray Davis other than the car registration tax.

The only ballot initiative that left me scratching and shaking my head is the rejection of the proposition which would have made it law that a daughter notify her parents 48 hours before she has an abortion. On the surface of it you might think, "Well, sure! We don't want our reproductive rights infringed upon." But the logic of this doesn't fly considering you have to get a parent's permission before an underage girl (or boy) can be given asprin at school, before they get a tattoo, or before they can be treated for any other medical issue.

So for something as insignificant as a stomach ache you must inform the parent to take action, but in the case of major invasive surgery which has a profound psychological, emotional, and physical impact on the girl's health-- not to mention jepardizing her future ability to have children --the kid is free to make her own decision in this regard.

It makes no sense. All-in-all, it leaves me to wonder just who were these 51% of voters who feel this way.

Totem

Basically, if you have fostered an open, trusting and loving relationship with your daughter, they will tell you if they fall pregnant, whther it is law or not.

The aspirin comparison is retarded. If you can't see the difference, and are genuinely scratching your head over why an abortion is a more complicated case, with regard to overall wellbeing of the individual concerned, then you are also retarded.

Not so, Pat. If the girl has something equally as serious as, say, ovarian cancer-- a reproductive health issue --the parents have to be informed. A health issue is a health issue. Was I using hyperbole? Yes, but the argument is still valid.

Ping...

Totem

Actually. A good part of that was confusion over the way the initiative was written. If you didn't want minors to get abortions without parental consent you voted "YES". The problem is that in many cases people assume a yes vote is in favor of whatever is being debated and a no vote is against it, so the'll vote "no" because they're against allowing minors getting abortions without parental consent... and end up voting wrong.

...Pong.

You haven't answered the question, Pat. As it is, you have given abortion a particular social stygma deserving of special treatment, when the reality is any number of health issues have the same or mmore negative connotation associated with them. AIDS, herpes, PIDs, every other sexually transmitted disease-- all of which affect the long term health of the patient --require a parent to be informed before treatment. So why is a pregnancy any different other than a political issue (Roe v Wade)?

It doesn't, that's why.

Totem

Ok, so you found a website which regurgitates everything we have been saying. Where is your argument?

As per your vaunted internet source, "On the other hand, it may be more important for a young person to have access to confidential medical services than it is to require that parents be informed of their child's condition."

It is my bold captioning in that sentence for those of you too lazy to read what Pat cites. In a nutshell, this is exactly what is at stake. It is a value judgement. Obviously you feel that it is unimportant for a child to inform the supposedly wiser parent of the foolish decision of the child to get pregnant. So be it. However, that does not negate that something like ovarian cancer (a particular example I used earlier) is unexplicably not under the same guidelines, due only to a value judgement on issues apparently concerning sex. Conversely, if a child wanted to get pregnant and decided in vitro fertilization was her prefered method, she would once again have to get her parent's permission.

The logic does not stand up to scrutiny, Pat. It is only your stilted sense of propriety which makes you think that a child ever has the right to take an action which has life long and life threatening consequences without even at the very least informing the parent of what she is about to undertake.

Totem

Edited, Wed Nov 9 17:25:58 2005 by Totem

Ok. So what you're saying is ovarian cancer doesn't happen to minors. Got it. You also are saying you know all the emotions any child would feel upon discovering they had a serious disease and that shame is definitely not one of them. Check. Got that too.

Is ovarian cancer my silver bullet? No, but it happened to be the one example I thought off the top of my head which might get through your thick skull as a obvious case that demonstrates that not all reproductive health medical issues are viewed the same in the eyes of the law. Which, I say again, is illogical. A danger to a child's health is a danger to a child's health is a danger to a child's health.

Got it?

It matters not one wit to me what specific emminent risk it is to my child's life, I want to know about it as a parent. Especially if they are going to be performing an inherently dangerous invasive surgery. Period.

Got it?

Your focus that because pregnancy is involved it supercedes any and all other parental rights concerns simply demonstrates to me that you are not a parent-- at least not one where the mother is willing to admit she allowed you to to milt her eggs.

Got it?

The Crosscontinuum Copulation Diety of The Great Enigma may think that his ***** is a veritable nectar to gullible and easily drugged women, but when the shi[/i]t hits the fan, ultimately you just don't want her father blowing your balls off for effing up her life.

That's what [i]I got from this conversation.

Totem