So here's the situation. My wife got her oil changed, and the place didn't tighten her filter down properly. Over the course of the next 2 days, all her oil proceded to leak out.
My wife (without informing me first), takes the car to Toyota and gets a full 60k mile overhaul, costing 500 dollars. I was a little upset that she did it without telling me first, but I figured hey if it fixes the problem and makes her happy good deal.
Sadly, it didn't fix the problem. We take the car back to Toyota, and they find a bad valve and a bad cam-sprocket. They tell us it will cost 700 dollars to fix, and after a couple days full of headaches, the oil place pays for repairs.
We pick up her car, and it runs like a dream...for all of 12 hours. Then the engine light pops back on and the car goes kaput.
We tow the car back to Toyota yet again, and they now say she needs a whole new engine, which will cost 8000 dollars. Here's where the real heartache begins.
The oil place contends that when Toyota accepted their check and released the vehicle, they assumed liability for any further damages incurred on the vehicle. Toyota contends that liability rests with the oil place since they fuc[b][/b]ked it up in the first place, and they only assume liability for the parts they effected repairs on.
so far I've talked to 42 different law-firms in the area, and none of them handle this specific type of case. Any law-savvy people here have any ideas?
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Depends on where you are located and the laws in that area more than anything else.
Try this?
I can see legal basis to nail both busniesses. A lot depends on the documentation surrounding the transactions at the Toyota place.
The oil change place admitted wrong by paying for the initial repairs. The dealership gave a bill for "fixing" what the oil change place caused. Did paperwork change hands? How detailed was it? Did it accept any responsibility? Who's going to say what if it goes to court?
I suggest being very persistent with the oil change place. They caused the damage and if they hadn't done that, then nobody else's judgement could have been called into question because it wouldn't have been needed in the first place.
Don't take it to court unless they just won't compensate you after you make it very clear you are not going to go away or accept less than the worth of the car. That's just what I think, I'm not even close to a lawyer. But I am an *******, so maybe that's close enough.
Try this?
I can see legal basis to nail both busniesses. A lot depends on the documentation surrounding the transactions at the Toyota place.
The oil change place admitted wrong by paying for the initial repairs. The dealership gave a bill for "fixing" what the oil change place caused. Did paperwork change hands? How detailed was it? Did it accept any responsibility? Who's going to say what if it goes to court?
I suggest being very persistent with the oil change place. They caused the damage and if they hadn't done that, then nobody else's judgement could have been called into question because it wouldn't have been needed in the first place.
Don't take it to court unless they just won't compensate you after you make it very clear you are not going to go away or accept less than the worth of the car. That's just what I think, I'm not even close to a lawyer. But I am an *******, so maybe that's close enough.
Great link thanks.
I wonder if the place was a Jiffy Lube. One time they didn't tighten my sister's tire on well enough and mid-freeway, her tire just went spinning right off the car. Another time when I was driving on a road trip, they didn't tighten the valve well enough, oil leaked onto the engine and the second I stopped for a restroom break a fire broke out under my hood.
Well I finally got a lawyer to help me out, and we've established that liability rests with the Oil change company. This is because Toyota never had liability, the only liability was between myself and the oil change place. Since I never signed a release (thank God), they're still liable for the car. I've drafted a nice little Certified (aka Demand) Letter for them. The names have been changed to protect the parties involved.
My wife found a legal website that shows statistics showing 1/3 of people who submit Demand Letters such as this one get 100% of the money they ask for without ever stepping foot into a court. Here's hoping.
The demand letter, which I'm pretty damn proud of wrote:
Mr. and Mrs. allenjj
111 Anywhere Dr.
Anytown, FL 12345
(123) 456-7890
Evil Oil Place
666 North Hell Blvd.
Hell
(666) 666-6669
Dear Mr. Evil Oil Change Place Owner,
On Saturday, October 8, 2005, we received an oil change on our car, a 2002 Toyota Rav4, from Evil Oil Place. (ref. 1) On Wednesday, October 12, 2005, our car stalled, and was pushed to a nearby gas station. Later that day Evil, inc. sent a technician out to redo the oil change at the gas station. The technician stated that the reason our car stalled was the fact that the oil filter had not been placed correctly, which had caused all the oil to leak from our car.
Later that day, October 12, 2005, the check engine light came on. This was the first time the check engine light on our car had ever come on since buying it in 2002. We took it back to Evil, inc. the next day, Thursday, October 13, 2005. Lucifer, one of the technicians at Evil, inc., replaced the oil once again, and ran a diagnostic check on the engine. The diagnostic code was P1349. Lucifer re-set the check engine light, and told us to bring our car in to Evil, inc. on Monday if the check engine light came back on.
The check engine light came back on later that day on October 13, 2005. Before bringing our car in to Evil, inc., we checked the diagnostic code on http://www.troublecodes.net/Toyota/, and it stated that P1349 indicated trouble with the VVT System. We brought the car in to Evil, inc. on Monday, October 17, 2005. At this time we told Lucifer our findings in reference to the diagnostic code, but he decided to call Toyota to inquire about the diagnostic code. He told us that someone at the service department at Toyota had told him the diagnostic code indicated the need for an engine tune-up. We scheduled an appointment with the service department at Toyota to receive a tune-up on the following day at 12:00 p.m.
On Tuesday, October 18, 2005, we brought our car into Toyota, and decided to get the 60,000 mile Max Service “Tune-upâ€, costing $515.58 (ref. 2). After picking up our car that evening, on the way home, the check engine light came back on. That night we called Ms. Toyota Lady in the Service Department at Toyota, and she set up an appointment for us to bring our car in on Friday, October 21, 2005 for a full diagnostic check.
On Friday, October 21, 2005, we brought our car in to Toyota to get the diagnostic check (ref. 3). Later that day Ms. Toyota Lady called back to inform us that the VVT Valve and CAM sprocket were damaged, and that these damaged items were the result of a faulty oil change. We contacted you, Evil Oil Place Owner, at Evil, inc. to inform you of the above details. Ms. Toyota Lady faxed the details of the damage and cost for repairs to you. At this time you agreed to pay the cost of $689.10 in order to repair damages to our car.
We picked up the check from Evil, inc., went to Toyota, paid for the repairs to our car and picked up our car from the service department on Saturday, October 29, 2005.
On Sunday, October 30, 2005, on our way to church, the check engine light came back on. Our car started to bog down, and it felt as if it was going to stall. We left it at the church. The following day, Monday, October 31, 2005, we called Toyota’s service department, and our car was towed to Toyota. Later that day Ms. Toyota Lady called back with an estimate of $6,500 to repair the engine on our car. She stated that the damages were the direct result of no oil in the motor. We informed you of the estimate, and agreed to wait to go any further until final paperwork for repairs were issued from Toyota.
On Wednesday, November 2, 2005 we delivered all receipts and history of work done by Toyota since October 18, 2005, including the paperwork specifying needed repairs (totaling $7,865.42 plus $75.00 towing charge) to you at Evil, inc. (ref. 4). You requested two days to review the paperwork. On November 4, 2005, you stated your intention to not pay for these damages to our car due to the fact that you believed liability had shifted to Toyota. We state that Evil Oil Place is liable for all damages to our car due to the faulty oil change performed by Evil, inc. on October 8, 2005. We further state that Toyota assumes no liability, excepting the specific repairs done by them, for any and all damages incurred as a result of the faulty oil change.
We would like to settle this without retaining counsel to represent us. We feel this matter can be settled in full for the amount of $7,910.42. We would be willing to sign a release if a check is delivered to us in the above amount within 30 days of receipt of this letter to our address listed above.
If this matter cannot be settled within 30 days, we will be forced to retain counsel. At that time we will be requesting the full amount due plus attorney’s fees.
Sincerely,
allenjj
For your reference we have enclosed a copy of:
1. Evil Oil Place receipt of oil changed, dated: October 8, 2005
2. Toyota receipt of 60,000 Mile Max Service, invoice dated: October 18, 2005
3. Toyota receipt of VVT Valve and CAM sprocket damage, invoice dated: October 28, 2005
4. Toyota receipt of total engine repair, dated: November 1, 2005
111 Anywhere Dr.
Anytown, FL 12345
(123) 456-7890
Evil Oil Place
666 North Hell Blvd.
Hell
(666) 666-6669
Dear Mr. Evil Oil Change Place Owner,
On Saturday, October 8, 2005, we received an oil change on our car, a 2002 Toyota Rav4, from Evil Oil Place. (ref. 1) On Wednesday, October 12, 2005, our car stalled, and was pushed to a nearby gas station. Later that day Evil, inc. sent a technician out to redo the oil change at the gas station. The technician stated that the reason our car stalled was the fact that the oil filter had not been placed correctly, which had caused all the oil to leak from our car.
Later that day, October 12, 2005, the check engine light came on. This was the first time the check engine light on our car had ever come on since buying it in 2002. We took it back to Evil, inc. the next day, Thursday, October 13, 2005. Lucifer, one of the technicians at Evil, inc., replaced the oil once again, and ran a diagnostic check on the engine. The diagnostic code was P1349. Lucifer re-set the check engine light, and told us to bring our car in to Evil, inc. on Monday if the check engine light came back on.
The check engine light came back on later that day on October 13, 2005. Before bringing our car in to Evil, inc., we checked the diagnostic code on http://www.troublecodes.net/Toyota/, and it stated that P1349 indicated trouble with the VVT System. We brought the car in to Evil, inc. on Monday, October 17, 2005. At this time we told Lucifer our findings in reference to the diagnostic code, but he decided to call Toyota to inquire about the diagnostic code. He told us that someone at the service department at Toyota had told him the diagnostic code indicated the need for an engine tune-up. We scheduled an appointment with the service department at Toyota to receive a tune-up on the following day at 12:00 p.m.
On Tuesday, October 18, 2005, we brought our car into Toyota, and decided to get the 60,000 mile Max Service “Tune-upâ€, costing $515.58 (ref. 2). After picking up our car that evening, on the way home, the check engine light came back on. That night we called Ms. Toyota Lady in the Service Department at Toyota, and she set up an appointment for us to bring our car in on Friday, October 21, 2005 for a full diagnostic check.
On Friday, October 21, 2005, we brought our car in to Toyota to get the diagnostic check (ref. 3). Later that day Ms. Toyota Lady called back to inform us that the VVT Valve and CAM sprocket were damaged, and that these damaged items were the result of a faulty oil change. We contacted you, Evil Oil Place Owner, at Evil, inc. to inform you of the above details. Ms. Toyota Lady faxed the details of the damage and cost for repairs to you. At this time you agreed to pay the cost of $689.10 in order to repair damages to our car.
We picked up the check from Evil, inc., went to Toyota, paid for the repairs to our car and picked up our car from the service department on Saturday, October 29, 2005.
On Sunday, October 30, 2005, on our way to church, the check engine light came back on. Our car started to bog down, and it felt as if it was going to stall. We left it at the church. The following day, Monday, October 31, 2005, we called Toyota’s service department, and our car was towed to Toyota. Later that day Ms. Toyota Lady called back with an estimate of $6,500 to repair the engine on our car. She stated that the damages were the direct result of no oil in the motor. We informed you of the estimate, and agreed to wait to go any further until final paperwork for repairs were issued from Toyota.
On Wednesday, November 2, 2005 we delivered all receipts and history of work done by Toyota since October 18, 2005, including the paperwork specifying needed repairs (totaling $7,865.42 plus $75.00 towing charge) to you at Evil, inc. (ref. 4). You requested two days to review the paperwork. On November 4, 2005, you stated your intention to not pay for these damages to our car due to the fact that you believed liability had shifted to Toyota. We state that Evil Oil Place is liable for all damages to our car due to the faulty oil change performed by Evil, inc. on October 8, 2005. We further state that Toyota assumes no liability, excepting the specific repairs done by them, for any and all damages incurred as a result of the faulty oil change.
We would like to settle this without retaining counsel to represent us. We feel this matter can be settled in full for the amount of $7,910.42. We would be willing to sign a release if a check is delivered to us in the above amount within 30 days of receipt of this letter to our address listed above.
If this matter cannot be settled within 30 days, we will be forced to retain counsel. At that time we will be requesting the full amount due plus attorney’s fees.
Sincerely,
allenjj
For your reference we have enclosed a copy of:
1. Evil Oil Place receipt of oil changed, dated: October 8, 2005
2. Toyota receipt of 60,000 Mile Max Service, invoice dated: October 18, 2005
3. Toyota receipt of VVT Valve and CAM sprocket damage, invoice dated: October 28, 2005
4. Toyota receipt of total engine repair, dated: November 1, 2005
My wife found a legal website that shows statistics showing 1/3 of people who submit Demand Letters such as this one get 100% of the money they ask for without ever stepping foot into a court. Here's hoping.
Buy American and karma wouldn't bite you in the *** like that.
AegisGoat wrote:
Buy American and karma wouldn't bite you in the *** like that.
I worked customer service (dealing with people that had chronic problems with vehicles andservice) for an automaker with the letters "G" and "M" in it and believe me you would be surprised, especially in cars that rhyme with madillac and gummer.
Look in your owners manual and see if Toyota has some sort of customer assistance center. Usually you will just get the run around but if you get a truly decent person they will help you get all your paper work in order and get it hashed out. I weep for you Allenj because unless lady luck is on your side you are in for a bad time. The truly scary thing I've seen before on a number of occassion is that the person finally gets the dealership to pay for the new motor and then the dealership decides to save a few bucks and put in a used motor and then that dies and then the person is screwed in ways you couldnt imagine. I have seen that happen at least 5 different occassion with the "g" "m" people.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
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