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Safety is dangerous public policyFollow

#1 Nov 04 2005 at 5:09 PM Rating: Good
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[lg]SUV backover deaths: What can be done?[/sm]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/tipsandadvice/11/03/backover/index.html wrote:

Drivers unaware of rear blindspots accidentally backing over more small children, experts say.

November 4, 2005; Posted: 2:58 p.m. EST (1958 GMT)
From Greg Hunter, CNN

NEW YORK (CNN) - One thing many SUV buyers like about their vehicles is the increased visibility. They feel like they can see farther down the road over the roofs of other cars. But that long-distance line of sight comes at a price that can be tragic.

What SUV drivers can't see is what's close behind them and, when backing out of a driveway or parking spot, that could be a person. In many cases, it's a small child.

More than 2,400 children are backed-up over every year in the United States. Of those, about 100 are killed. In most cases, those children are run over by a parent or other relative.

Julie Peck's son, Jackson, was four years old when he was killed two days before Christmas. Jackson's grandmother couldn't see the young boy running up from behind just as she was backing up the family's SUV.

"He was gone instantly. They didn't hear a sound when the car backed over him," said Julie Peck. "When they pulled it off him, he wasn't making a sound."

It's called the "bye-bye syndrome" said Janette Fennell, founder of the auto safety group Kids and Cars.

Wanting one last chance to see mommy, daddy, or grandmother before they go, a child will run up behind the vehicle at the worst possible time. Small children don't realize that the driver may not be able to see them.

While most drivers are aware that there are area's behind their vehicle in which they cannot see, many don't realize how large those areas can be. The problem is worse in trucks and SUVs than in other cars because of their increased height and the distance between the driver and the tailgate or rear window.

"More and more people are buying bigger and bigger," said Consumer Reports auto test director David Champion, "and the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the blind spot."

Champion illustrated the problem using 28-inch-high cones, about the height of a typical two-year old. The cone had to be 10 feet, 10 inches from the back of a Subaru Impreza sedan before it became visible in the rear-view mirror.

The cone had to be a little over 18 feet to be seen from the driver's seat of a Dodge Grand Caravan minivan and it was invisible up to 25 feet from the back of a large Toyota Tundra pick-up.

From the driver's seat of a Chevrolet Suburban, a large SUV, the cone wasn't visible until it was 46 feet, nine inches away.

For a shorter driver, the blind spots are even larger.

Various factors, besides just the size of the vehicle, can effect the size blind spots. Small windows can make blind spots larger, for example, while high-mounted seats can make them smaller.

"On these big vehicles where we see something like 20, 30, 40 feet of blind spot behind, that is where the problems are," said Champion. "That is where the deaths we are seeing in backover accidents are occurring."

It's a problem the industry isn't addressing right now, said Ron DeFore, a spokesperson for SUV Owners of America, an organization partially funded by car companies.

There's not enough data, he said, to require automakers to come up with a solution.

Optional equipment available on many trucks and SUVs can help solve this problem. Some cars and trucks are already available with sensors that sound an audible warning when something is close behind and the vehicle is in reverse. Some even have video cameras that show what's behind the vehicle where the mirrors can't see.

For vehicles that don't have this type of equipment, several companies make products that you can easily install yourself.

While back-up video camera systems can cost thousands of dollars, radar-based sensors cost much less, generally a couple of hundred dollars. Some of these systems take just a few minutes to install.

Champion thinks systems like these should be required on all larger vehicles. But DeFore, communications director for SUV Owners of America, disagrees, citing the cost.

"If we take the attitude that any new technology, down the road, should just be mandated because it saved a few lives," he sad, "that is very dangerous public policy because you just start pricing vehicles well beyond what a lot of people can afford."

Senators Hillary Clinton (D-New York) and John Sununu (R-New Hampshire) have proposed legislation requiring the U.S. Department of Transportation to issue regulations aimed at reducing accidents that frequently kill or injure children in cars.


Ok so we can pay $400 extra for an extra fuc[/b]king cupholder, ciggerate lighter outlet, or brushed aluminum taillight brushguards. But thats too much to ask for a safety system just because it might save a few lives? I am surprised that the director of an orginization already under fire for irresponsibility actually went on record making that callous of a remark.
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#2 Nov 04 2005 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Too much talky talky.
#3 Nov 04 2005 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah yeah SUVs kill small children, SUVs kill the planet, SUVs kill your mom.. old hat!

get something original!
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#4 Nov 04 2005 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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Granted they get allot of negative press, but were talking about a few hundred dollars added onto a $40,000 vehicle. As an SUV driver I don't see why the industry would be opposed.
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#5 Nov 04 2005 at 5:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:
Yeah yeah SUVs kill small children, SUVs kill the planet, SUVs kill your mom.. old hat!
Soooommmmmee-body owns an SUV!

And someone else needs to learn to crop down their articles. I'm looking in your direction, Ythe.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#6 Nov 04 2005 at 5:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Huh? No. I think SUVs are evil =P

I own this
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#7 Nov 04 2005 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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A knock-off Matchbox car?

You can get those two for a buck at Walgreens.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 Nov 04 2005 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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but I paid extra for the extra cute!

plus it really hauls ***
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#9 Nov 04 2005 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
For vehicles that don't have this type of equipment, several companies make products that you can easily install yourself.

While back-up video camera systems can cost thousands of dollars, radar-based sensors cost much less, generally a couple of hundred dollars. Some of these systems take just a few minutes to install.
What's the problem? These systems are available to the consumer. They're usually available from the car dealer. He was talking about it being a required feature and the higher cost.
#10 Nov 04 2005 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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I drive a small Nissan Altima and I still wouldn't see a kid 6 years or younger behind my car. I've noticed this recently as there's been an influx of young kids into my neighborhood. I just make sure to back up really slowly nowadays. Good technique to use in any backing up situation, really, such as from parking spaces. If you're running late for work, 10 extra seconds backing up isn't going to save you, but you put some people behind the wheel and they become maniacs...



#11 Nov 04 2005 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:
but I paid extra for the extra cute!

plus it really hauls ***


Wait just a minute here. Did someone with ********* just say they bought a car because it was 'cute'?

All hope for humanity is truly lost.
#12 Nov 04 2005 at 5:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cute gets the chicks, Elderon!
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#13 Nov 04 2005 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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actually I only bought it because it was a friend of my dad's selling it used for a great price
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#14 Nov 04 2005 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:
Cute gets the chicks, Elderon!


So does a Harley. Do you see the disconnect?
#15 Nov 04 2005 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't want butch lesbians with mustaches
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#16 Nov 04 2005 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:
actually I only bought it because I want to be like the happy trees painter.


Gotcha. Smiley: wink2
#17 Nov 04 2005 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
but I paid extra for the extra cute!

plus it really hauls ***


Ya thats real nice, until you run over the children attracted to it's cuteness. Baby smasher...


Quote:
And someone else needs to learn to crop down their articles. I'm looking in your direction, Ythe.


I always figured most people didn't actually want to click the article to go read it. How about I Bold the important parts from now on?
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#18 Nov 04 2005 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:
I don't want butch lesbians with mustaches


Where the hell do you live?

http://www.girls-on-bikes.com/ [:NWS:]
#19 Nov 04 2005 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I obviously don't live in ****-land
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#20 Nov 04 2005 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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xythex wrote:
Quote:
As an SUV driver I don't see why the industry would be opposed.


I'm guessing lawsuits and recalls on existing vehicles might be a reason for that.
#21 Nov 04 2005 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I drive a small Nissan Altima and I still wouldn't see a kid 6 years or younger behind my car. I've noticed this recently as there's been an influx of young kids into my neighborhood. I just make sure to back up really slowly nowadays. Good technique to use in any backing up situation, really, such as from parking spaces. If you're running late for work, 10 extra seconds backing up isn't going to save you, but you put some people behind the wheel and they become maniacs...
Which kind of brings my point. It's up to the operator of the vehicle to operate it as safe as possible. You can add all the safety equipment in the world to a piece of equipment and still have accidents. If I can't see a blindspot and I'm traveling in that area I should be extra cautious. Every driver should know their vehicles limits and safety measures, cameras and detectors with or without.
#22 Nov 04 2005 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
Danalog the Vengeful Programmer wrote:
I obviously don't live in ****-land
Smiley: lol
#23 Nov 04 2005 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Drivers unaware of rear blindspots accidentally backing over more small children, experts say.

November 4, 2005; Posted: 2:58 p.m. EST (1958 GMT)
From Greg Hunter, CNN


NEW YORK (CNN) - One thing many SUV buyers like about their vehicles is the increased visibility. They feel like they can see farther down the road over the roofs of other cars. But that long-distance line of sight comes at a price that can be tragic.

What SUV drivers can't see is what's close behind them and, when backing out of a driveway or parking spot, that could be a person. In many cases, it's a small child.

...

"If we take the attitude that any new technology, down the road, should just be mandated because it saved a few lives," he sad, "that is very dangerous public policy because you just start pricing vehicles well beyond what a lot of people can afford."

Senators Hillary Clinton (D-New York) and John Sununu (R-New Hampshire) have proposed legislation requiring the U.S. Department of Transportation to issue regulations aimed at reducing accidents that frequently kill or injure children in cars.
Is it really that hard?
#24 Nov 04 2005 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm guessing lawsuits and recalls on existing vehicles might be a reason for that.


It didn't happen with airbags. It's never up to the industry to retroactivly fit vehicles with safety devices before they were required by law.

I agree that these accidents can mostly be avoided with simple common sense, attentivness, and thoughtfullness but if one innocent child can be saved isn't it worth it to mandate the bumper radar on vehicles with a predetermined size blindspot?
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#25 Nov 04 2005 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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xythex:
Quote:
I agree that these accidents can mostly be avoided with simple common sense, attentivness, and thoughtfullness but if one innocent child can be saved isn't it worth it to mandate the bumper radar on vehicles with a predetermined size blindspot?


You know xythex I'm glad you posted this article, I just went outside and did a four point inspection of my SUV and found a midget smoking a cigarette right in my blind spot.
#26 Nov 04 2005 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Lord xythex wrote:
I agree that these accidents can mostly be avoided with simple common sense, attentivness, and thoughtfullness but if one innocent child can be saved isn't it worth it to mandate the bumper radar on vehicles with a predetermined size blindspot?


I'd prefer it to be expressed more as "if a significant number of children can be saved relative to the cost burden of the mandated safety feature, then it's worth it". Absolutes like "if one child can be saved..." could be used to justify *anything* regardless of expense or imposition.

Other then that, I agree with you. In this case, if a relatively inexpensive solution can be found that would save a significant number of lives, then we should look at mandating that in future vehicles designs.


I also agree that most of this is just plain poor driving. Yeah. SUVs make it worse because tbey have bigger blindspots then other passenger vehicles, but most drivers drive with the assumption that they're not going to hit anything. It never ceases to amaze me when I see folks who'll look behind them briefly, then floor the gas to pull out of a parking space, only to slam on the breaks once they've cleared the space. What's the damn hurry? Back up slowly and you wont kill people that you didn't see. Heck. Drive slower and you wont put as big a dent in your car from that post you didn't see either. There's a whole hell of a lot of good reasons for always backing up slowly in your car, and not a whole lot for doing it at full speed...
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