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#1 Nov 04 2005 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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What next, an endorsement of evolution?

Quote:
Vatican: Faithful Should Listen to Science

By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer Thu Nov 3, 7:46 PM ET

VATICAN CITY - A
Vatican cardinal said Thursday the faithful should listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that religion risks turning into "fundamentalism" if it ignores scientific reason.

Cardinal Paul Poupard, who heads the Pontifical Council for Culture, made the comments at a news conference on a Vatican project to help end the "mutual prejudice" between religion and science that has long bedeviled the Roman Catholic Church and is part of the evolution debate in the United States.

The Vatican project was inspired by
Pope John Paul II's 1992 declaration that the church's 17th-century denunciation of Galileo was an error resulting from "tragic mutual incomprehension." Galileo was condemned for supporting Nicolaus Copernicus' discovery that the Earth revolved around the sun; church teaching at the time placed Earth at the center of the universe.

"The permanent lesson that the Galileo case represents pushes us to keep alive the dialogue between the various disciplines, and in particular between theology and the natural sciences, if we want to prevent similar episodes from repeating themselves in the future," Poupard said.

But he said science, too, should listen to religion.

"We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: the atomic bomb and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link," he said.

"But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism," he said.

"The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity."

Poupard and others at the news conference were asked about the religion-science debate raging in the United States over evolution and "intelligent design."

Intelligent design's supporters argue that natural selection, an element of evolutionary theory, cannot fully explain the origin of life or the emergence of highly complex life forms.

Monsignor Gianfranco Basti, director of the Vatican project STOQ, or Science, Theology and Ontological Quest, reaffirmed John Paul's 1996 statement that evolution was "more than just a hypothesis."

"A hypothesis asks whether something is true or false," he said. "(Evolution) is more than a hypothesis because there is proof."


He was asked about comments made in July by Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, who dismissed in a New York Times article the 1996 statement by John Paul as "rather vague and unimportant" and seemed to back intelligent design.

Basti concurred that John Paul's 1996 letter "is not a very clear expression from a definition point of view," but he said evolution was assuming ever more authority as scientific proof develops.

Poupard, for his part, stressed that what was important was that "the universe wasn't made by itself, but has a creator." But he added, "It's important for the faithful to know how science views things to understand better."

The Vatican project STOQ has organized academic courses and conferences on the relationship between science and religion and is hosting its first international conference on "the infinity in science, philosophy and theology," next week.


On a personal note, this gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I have never had my views on science and religion conflict, and I'm glad the church doesn't expect one to supercede or overwhelm the other.
#2 Nov 04 2005 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Interesting. Of course, both sides will interpret it as it suits them: strict evolutionists saying "See? The Vatican says there's proof of evolution!" and the ID/Creationists saying "The Vatican says God made the universe!"

At least it seems to discount Six Day Creationism.
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#3 Nov 04 2005 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
Interesting. Of course, both sides will interpret it as it suits them: strict evolutionists saying "See? The Vatican says there's proof of evolution!" and the ID/Creationists saying "The Vatican says God made the universe!"

At least it seems to discount Six Day Creationism.

I knew I'd get at least a one-post response! Thanks, Earwig. Smiley: inlove
#4 Nov 04 2005 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sometimes, once in a very great while, I wish I believed in God.

At any rate, I think it's good for the church to show themselves not to be so pig-headed in the face of hard evidence of something, and instead try to incorporate it into the belief structure. I'm sure it will attract more people into the fold if they see that they can believe in something without giving up another strongly held belief structure to do it.

Nexa
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#5 Nov 04 2005 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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I knew I'd get at least a one-post response! Thanks, Earwig.


Hey! I responded too! I demand my own lovey-dovey smiley!

Nexa
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― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#6 Nov 04 2005 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Are they going to break out the Buddy-Jesus soon?
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#7 Nov 04 2005 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think people forget we live in a different society than what the bible was written for as well. Much of the bible is parables and I think we often try to take it too literally.

How were you supposed to explain Intelligent Design to people 2000 years ago? It would have sounded like nonesense and just as quickly dismissed. The nuts and bolts aren't the important focus here, it's the concepts.
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#8 Nov 04 2005 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think Roman Catholics were the biggest bashers of evolution or science that conflicts with bibilical account (they did but they werent leading the argument) it was rather evangelical protestants who usually view the RC's as not even being christians in the first place.
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#9 Nov 04 2005 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
it was rather evangelical Protestants who usually view the RC's as not even being Christians in the first place.


Evangelical Protestants can kiss my royal Irish RC ***. Smiley: moogle

We RC can draw a direct line from Christ and the Apostle Peter who was our first Pope. All they can do is make up a new religion based on what ever the Jim Jones wannabe reverend in charge's voices tell him to do that week.

They believe in literal interpretation of a massive historical document that has been translated and rewritten so many times that something simple like “thou shalt not murder” was changed into “thou shalt not kill” along the way. The significance of the bible as a spiritual guide is totally lost if you try to follow it literally.
#11 Nov 04 2005 at 12:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nexa wrote:
Quote:
I knew I'd get at least a one-post response! Thanks, Earwig.


Hey! I responded too! I demand my own lovey-dovey smiley!

It's bad to respond to tantrums this way, but what the heck. I'll spoil ya.
Smiley: inlove
#12 Nov 04 2005 at 12:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Idiot America is not going to listen to the Papist Satan.

The linked article is a longish read, but he makes some very good points about, well, how we got so stupid. Quite simply, it was by accepting and glorifying stupidity over logic.

Quote:
The president of the United States announces that he believes ID ought to be taught in the public schools on an equal footing with the theory of evolution. And in Dover, Pennsylvania, during one of these many controversies, a pastor named Ray Mummert delivers the line that both ends our tour and, in every real sense, sums it up:

"We've been attacked," he says, "by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture."


But yes, I am glad the Vatican has weighed in on the side of rational discourse.

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#13 Nov 04 2005 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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My family is made up of diehard Catholics and the science vs. religion debate can start a raging argument in my family. My father always settles the matter by saying that one can use science or religion to explain the how everything was made, but only faith will explain the why. It sounds so deep when he says it that everyone else just shuts up (which in a Filipino family, that's a toughie).
#14 Nov 05 2005 at 12:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know, faith is unassailable. I had a discussion with someone the other day who is not religious. He told me that some people believe in God because they need an outside focal point for their faith, and others just direct it inwards and are pick-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps kind of thinkers but that either way, faith of some sort drives everyone.
#15 Nov 05 2005 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have faith in the power of poptarts.

I was gonna insert something witty about Black Rob, but the lyric sites dont seem to remember "Whoa" Smiley: lol
#16 Nov 05 2005 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
Jophiel is my divine entity Smiley: bowdown
#17 Nov 05 2005 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Are they going to break out the Buddy-Jesus soon?


I think you mean the Buddy-Christ
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