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Politicians hate the darkiesFollow

#1 Sep 30 2005 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
Smiley: lol is all I have to say about this. I can't believe politicians can be this blatently racist and get away with it.

Bush's response. Uh, that's not an appropriate remark to make infront of the darkies you moron.

Notice he did not disagree with the sentiment? Smiley: lol

Bob bless Amhericuh!

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Quote:
WASHINGTON - The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

"The president believes the comments were not appropriate," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

Bennett, on his radio show, "Morning in America," was answering a caller's question when he took issue with the hypothesis put forth in a recent book that one reason crime is down is that abortion is up.

"But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down," said Bennett, author of "The Book of Virtues."

He went on to call that "an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky."

Responding later to criticism, Bennett said his comments had been mischaracterized and that his point was that the idea of supporting abortion to reduce crime was "morally reprehensible."

Bennett was education secretary under President Reagan and director of drug control policy when Bush's father was president.
#2 Sep 30 2005 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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18,463 posts
He's not really a politician anymore. He's a shock jock!
#3 Sep 30 2005 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
"But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down," said Bennett, author of "The Book of Virtues."

How is that racist? I am genuinely curious. There isn't a way you can rationally look at that and make the assertation with a straight face.

It is a response to a premise that is not his own. It is a hyperbolic extrapolation of a very flawed argument. for those of you who aren't familiar, Hyperbole is exageration. It is simply rhetoric and the reason we continue to have this damn conversation is because some people in this country, and some people on this f'ucking board, are too stupid to understand marginally complex concepts.

From his own follow up...
Quote:
He went on to call that "an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.


Bill Bennett is a good man, and has, as far as I know, an unimpeachable character. To assert that he is a racist for comments made to discredit an overzealous ****** in a book that will be lauded by no one but racists is just plain stupid.
#4 Sep 30 2005 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
"But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down," said Bennett, author of "The Book of Virtues."

How is that racist? I am genuinely curious.

Theoretically speaking, racism is the extension of a stereotype. You make a stereotype about a person or a group based on one aspect, in this case, color, and you make it a characteristic of a culture.

1. He assumes the crime rate is related to fatherless children. Maybe. Plausible.


2. He SAYS that it's related to fatherless black children specifically. He's hinting at a direct relationship which implies a racial cause: crime=color. That's racist.
#5 Sep 30 2005 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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He should have replaced "black baby" with, "babies born from parents below or at the poverty level." This way he covers all races including white babies and Mexican. This wasn't very PC.
#6 Sep 30 2005 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
Moe, by implying that he agreed directly or indirectly with statement "you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down", you are instantly implying that darkies are a key source of crime, and by reducing the population of them, crime will inherantly go down.

You could also say, that by murdering all the asshats that post on allakhazam, the number of MMO players would go down. The key is an intrinsic link has been made between asshats and MMO players, even though I have not said "MMO players are asshats". Therefore, Bennett has implied that he believes darkies are to blame for crime.

Had he followed up his statement with something to hte tune of, "But that would be fair to say for any race considering every race commits crime, so we might as well just kill everyone and be done with it." He would not have been making a racist statement. By definition, a racist remark is made when you associate an intangible idea with a genralized group of people who share tangible traits. Positive or negative, it still falls into a racist/sexist/etc. comment. (Like Flea's 2nd point).
#7 Sep 30 2005 at 12:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Theoretically speaking, racism is the extension of a stereotype. You make a stereotype about a person or a group based on one aspect, in this case, color, and you make it a characteristic of a culture.

But you assume he is making a statement about the black babies being aborted, or even their mothers, or even the long gone fathers. He is not making a statement about them. As I said, it is simply a hyperbolic extrapolation refuting a racist thesis. his comment is re: the outlandish premise in the book, not the black people in question.
Quote:
This wasn't very PC.

No, it wasn't, but it was dealing, as I point out in a couple of places already, with the afore mentioned premise, and not the bowling balls.
#8 Sep 30 2005 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
Theoretically speaking, racism is the extension of a stereotype. You make a stereotype about a person or a group based on one aspect, in this case, color, and you make it a characteristic of a culture.

But you assume he is making a statement about the black babies being aborted, or even their mothers, or even the long gone fathers. He is not making a statement about them. As I said, it is simply a hyperbolic extrapolation refuting a racist thesis. his comment is re: the outlandish premise in the book, not the black people in question.
Quote:
This wasn't very PC.

No, it wasn't, but it was dealing, as I point out in a couple of places already, with the afore mentioned premise, and not the bowling balls.


Politicians are supposed to be Politically Correct, it's implied in the name.
#9 Sep 30 2005 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
by implying
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implying
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has implied

He was not, however, implying any of the things you are attributing to him. In context, when read with the morally reprehensible line, it is clear to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that he is commenting on the author's statement, not making one of his own.
Quote:
Had he followed up his statement with something to hte tune of, "But that would be fair to say for any race considering every race commits crime, so we might as well just kill everyone and be done with it." He would not have been making a racist statement. By definition, a racist remark is made when you associate an intangible idea with a genralized group of people who share tangible traits.

It was not his association. It was the author's. That is what clears him. He is a scholar and probably, though ill-advised, expects people to know that and respond accordingly when he makes a scholarly argument.
#10 Sep 30 2005 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Politicians are supposed to be Politically Correct, it's implied in the name.

he is not a politician, f'uck-wit. Nor was he when he was a political appointee as SecEd.
#11 Sep 30 2005 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
Theoretically speaking, racism is the extension of a stereotype. You make a stereotype about a person or a group based on one aspect, in this case, color, and you make it a characteristic of a culture.

But you assume he is making a statement about the black babies being aborted, or even their mothers, or even the long gone fathers. He is not making a statement about them. As I said, it is simply a hyperbolic extrapolation refuting a racist thesis. his comment is re: the outlandish premise in the book, not the black people in question.


Notice he didn't talk about fatherless children. I did. See the assumptions? It's not the point of his statement that is racist as much as the fact that he is using what he feels is a universal example, as I just did, to make that point. Black babies do not equal fatherless, and are in no way more related to crime than any other kind of child.

Oh, and the article gives no cause to think that the theme he's refuting was racist. It was that crime was down because abortions were up. that seems to be based on a pretty simpleminded assumption about population i.e. less people, less crime.
#12 Sep 30 2005 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
Well, forcing anyone to have an abortion would in fact, be a crime.

So the crime rate would actually go up.

Also, William Bennett is a massive tool.
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#13 Sep 30 2005 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
Quote:
Politicians are supposed to be Politically Correct, it's implied in the name.

he is not a politician, f'uck-wit. Nor was he when he was a political appointee as SecEd.


Correct, he was just representing a group of politicians. If he wasn’t, Bush would not have had to make his statements.
#14 Sep 30 2005 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:

It was not his association. It was the author's. That is what clears him. He is a scholar and probably, though ill-advised, expects people to know that and respond accordingly when he makes a scholarly argument.


Let's work from the premise that he is not a racist for a moment, and assume your analysis is correct. While he did state:

Quote:
Bennett said his comments had been mischaracterized and that his point was that the idea of supporting abortion to reduce crime was "morally reprehensible."


I just don't buy it. Politicians and the like know how to shovel ******** better than anyone. He is on the radio FFS, not in a college auditorium. This little gem is what seals the deal for me:
Quote:

Responding later to criticism,...


If he is not an ignorant bigot, then why did he not use his scholarly ways to ensure clear communication to his target audience? He failed and has pie on his face that he now needs to clean up.




Edited, Fri Sep 30 13:36:58 2005 by Elderon
#15 Sep 30 2005 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:

It was not his association. It was the author's. That is what clears him.


Didn't see this. Again, he assumed he was talking in terms that were generally assumed to be understood. He was unaware of how prejudiced they were, maybe, but they were certainly not scholarly. The racism lies in the fact that he thought his assumptions about blacks were universally shared.

Edited, Fri Sep 30 13:43:01 2005 by Atomicflea
#16 Sep 30 2005 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Do you blame him?

Smelly darkies. Smiley: oyvey
#17 Sep 30 2005 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
f'uck-wit.


I f'uck-wit my *****.
#18 Sep 30 2005 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
You people are so caught up in your knee jerk reactionism that anything that comes out of someones mouth, or in a written response, gets that careful scrutiny to see just where you can pick apart and find fault.

Here are the facts:
  • A book was written in which the author equated abortion with lower crime.
  • A caller asked an unknown question.
  • Crime is higher among minorities, both on a per capita and gross total basis.
  • "Blacks" are a large minority group.
  • If you abort all the black babies, there will be no more blacks.
  • If there are no more blacks, there will be no more black crime.
  • In Bill Bennett's opinion that would be "an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do,..."

  • So, here are the questions. They are simple, since you people miss the point by such a wide margin as to be walking the other way:
  • Which of those facts can you dispute?
  • As those facts are indisputable, how can they be considered characterization?
  • Can a fact be racist?
  • Since a fact can't be racist, how is speaking factually logically equated to being racist, as elderon posited?

  • EDIT:
    Elderon wrote:
    I f'uck-wit my *****.
    I find that very hard to believe.

    Edited, Fri Sep 30 13:55:31 2005 by MoebiusLord
    #19 Sep 30 2005 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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    His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
    You people are so caught up in your knee jerk reactionism that anything that comes out of someones mouth, or in a written response, gets that careful scrutiny to see just where you can pick apart and find fault.

    Here are the facts:
  • A book was written in which the author equated abortion with lower crime.
  • A caller asked an unknown question.
  • Crime is higher among minorities, both on a per capita and gross total basis.
  • "Blacks" are a large minority group.
  • If you abort all the black babies, there will be no more blacks.
  • If there are no more blacks, there will be no more black crime.
  • In Bill Bennett's opinion that would be "an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do,..."

  • So, here are the questions. They are simple, since you people miss the point by such a wide margin as to be walking the other way:


  • Which of those facts can you dispute?
  • None,individually, except for the ones about black babies and black crime. Black aduts would remain and so black crime could continue. I dispute them being inter-related.

  • As those facts are indisputable, how can they be considered characterization?

  • They're not indisputable, for the reasons I stated above. Here is the heart of the matter. The fact that anyone would believe this shows how pervasive and systemic racism is.

  • Can a fact be racist?

  • Depends on what you think is a fact. Jews are money-gubbing bastages. Hispanics are lazy. Indians own 7-11s. Some people would take those as facts. I say they aren't facts, and they are racist.

  • Since a fact can't be racist, how is speaking factually logically equated to being racist, as elderon posited?

  • Again, it's a matter of perception. If you don't get this, I can't really explain it any simpler: Blanket assumptions based on color are racist, even more so when you percieve them as fact.
    You say it's not racist because you share those assumptions. I don't.

    #20 Sep 30 2005 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
    Moe wrote:
    Since a fact can't be racist, how is speaking factually logically equated to being racist, as elderon posited?


    Example:

    Facts:
    Jews are known to be good with money. -insert historical evidence here-
    To "Jew" someone, became a synonym for "haggle".

    Without being malicious, you can still be a racist and not realize it. There is a difference between open bigotry and being conditioned by your environment. Without looking at grey areas (keep to black and white), someone who has no idea that saying someone "Jewed" me down is racist, would be considered just as evil as the grand dragon of the KKK.

    On this premis, he is a dirty bigot. In terms of is he REALLY a racist as[b][/b]shole, damn good chance that he is not.


    You lose on the technicallities Moe, not intent.
    #21 Sep 30 2005 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
    The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:


  • Can a fact be racist?

  • Depends on what you think is a fact. Jews are money-gubbing bastages. Hispanics are lazy. Indians own 7-11s. Some people would take those as facts. I say they aren't facts, and they are racist.


    Flea, get out of my head! Smiley: mad

    Smiley: wink2
    #22 Sep 30 2005 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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    Elderon wrote:
    Without being malicious, you can still be a racist and not realize it. There is a difference between open bigotry and being conditioned by your environment. Without looking at grey areas (keep to black and white), someone who has no idea that saying someone "Jewed" me down is racist,

    I'm with you here, except of the end of that sentence. Some people really don't realize how conditioned they are. I don't think it makes him an ***. I think it's an opportunity for self-growth. If he's the kind of man Moe says he is, I hope he gives it some serious thought.

    Edited, Fri Sep 30 14:20:08 2005 by Atomicflea
    #23 Sep 30 2005 at 1:15 PM Rating: Excellent
    I'll get to Flea later.

    Quote:
    Facts:
    Jews are known to be good with money. -insert historical evidence here-
    To "Jew" someone, became a synonym for "haggle".

    Characterization, not fact. Generalization, not fact.
    Quote:
    You lose on the technicallities Moe, not intent.

    See above Smiley: grin
    #24 Sep 30 2005 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
    The Glorious Atomicflea wrote:
    Elderon wrote:
    Without being malicious, you can still be a racist and not realize it. There is a difference between open bigotry and being conditioned by your environment. Without looking at grey areas (keep to black and white), someone who has no idea that saying someone "Jewed" me down is racist,

    I'm with you here, except of the end of that sentence. Some people really don't realize how conditioned they are. I don't think it makes him an ***. I think it's an opportunity for self-growth. If he's the kind of man Moe says he is, I hope he gives it some serious thought.


    I'm not down with it either, it was simplifying it into very clear terms without assigning any weighting to the right and wrong. There are grey areas in everything, but for the sake of example sometimes it becomes more clear if you categorize using extremes. IMO anyway.
    #25 Sep 30 2005 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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    Elderon the Wise wrote:


    Without being malicious, you can still be a racist and not realize it. There is a difference between open bigotry and being conditioned by your environment.


    Without realizing the system exists, one can and will become part of it. This applies to many areas including sexism.
    #26 Sep 30 2005 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
    His Excellency MoebiusLord wrote:
    I'll get to Flea later.

    Quote:
    Facts:
    Jews are known to be good with money. -insert historical evidence here-
    To "Jew" someone, became a synonym for "haggle".

    Characterization, not fact. Generalization, not fact.
    Quote:
    You lose on the technicallities Moe, not intent.

    See above Smiley: grin


    Moe, why do you hate darkies? It's the ***** thing isn't it. Smiley: frown


    fenderputy the Shady wrote:
    This applies to many areas including sexism.


    It applies to many -isms.




    Edited, Fri Sep 30 14:26:38 2005 by Elderon
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