March on D.C.Follow

kerry was one of the best men we have ever had run for president, a war hero, and intelligent. Despite all these things he had his reputation drug through the mud by people like you just because he had the nerve to run agaisnt the lovable war mongering frat boy(who scofted at his own military duties). kerry was attacked for protesting the war as well, and his service was also attacked, i guess you people find it very easy to attack someone who disagrees with you, even if they have takin one for the team time and time again. Katie, youve been so brainwashed by the conservative propaganda that you think rush limbaugh is the god of trugh and Bush is Einstien reborn. Just because your husband is in the military doesnt give you the experience to judge military action or criticize others efforts.

And again, I remind you that protesting the war because you don't want to see any more soldiers die needlessly is a whole world of different from protesting at a soldier's funeral for the purpose of telling his/her family and friends that he/she deserved to die and should not be honored because he/she is presently burning in hell because he/she fought on behalf of a "*** nation".

EP I KNOW you swore to this when you joined. As by military, and federal regulations it is REQUIRED by all branches of the military, active, active-reserves, inactive reserves, ect.



EvilPus[/b]sy, Noticed the bold underlined parts. This is the oath you swore to your nation, but also the republic of that nation. Your personal feelings on war doesn't mean jack sh[b]it, you've failed to follow the orders of the President of the United States(whomever he may be). And thus are a failure in the military. In short, you are a joke.

That's what's bothering you? Why didn't you say so! I've been in the Marines for 8 years. I've served in Japan, Korea, East Timor, Iraq, San Diego, and now Florida. That's a lot of both days and places served. Ready for the criticism?

You're a worthless piece of shi[/b]t. Go fuc[b]k yurself with your talk about morality. If you'd ever seen actual combat you'd know that morality has no place in battle.

The truth is, you signed a contract and then failed to uphold your end.

You are a coward.

First off. There's a "quote original" button right up at the top of the reply screen. Use it. It's not that hard...


Second. You missed the forest for the trees. Until and unless you can explain how this war is "unlawful" in any way that does not make *all* war unlawful, then the reason you've given for not doing your duty is false. Everything in my post after that point is speculation about your *true* reasons for your actions.

What you're *supposed* to do is defend your stated reason. Ie: Tell me why this war is unlawful. If you can't do that, then your entire argument kinda goes up in flames. More to the point, I find it fundamentally amazing that someone would effectively throw away a career he'd worked on for the last 5 years, and potentially face imprisonment, when he can't actually elucidate *why* he did it. I would hope that you actually spent some time thinking about a choice that huge, and am kinda hoping you'd share your thought process. So far, all I'm getting is rhetoric back.

So. Before you even read this further, answer that question. Why is the current Iraq war "unlawful"? Should be simple since I assume you had to have answered the question before throwing your career away over it.


And to the specific points:



Fine. But it's not up to you to decide if the orders of your commander in chief are "in vain". You don't get to obey or not obey based on your personal political beliefs. Orders are either legal, or they are illegal. If they are legal, you follow them. You are about 15 levels of rank below the point at which the determination of whether an action is worthwhile or not is made. Your job, is to follow those orders, not pick and choose which ones to follow based on whether or not you think they'll do the right thing on a global-political scale.

Um. If they are illegal, then you have to show them to be. Were you ever given an illegal order? Yes or no? I'm betting no. Heck. I'm betting you were never in the military to begin with, given your apparent ignorance of the topic, but even giving you that benefit of the doubt, I can almost guarantee you were never actually given an illegal order.





Huh? When did that happen? Who made that determination? You? Some talking head on a TV show? Excuse me, but you don't get to make that decision. The Congress of the United States is granted the authority to declare war by the Constitution of those same United States. Not you. Not the guy on the TV. Not your neighbor's dog. They are the legally elected representatives of the people who decide if war is justified or not. And amazingly enough! They did just that. Where does your opinion come into the equation? Oh yeah. It doesn't...

We invaded Germany in WW2. We certainly could have avoided that and just defended our own territory, right? Sometimes, you have to invade another country to ensure the defense of your own. The determinant of whether or not that war is "just" is based on *why* that invasion is being done. And guess what? You don't get to decide that. Congress does. Unless you are implying that the US Constitution, which you swore to uphold, can be ignored willy-nilly because a freaking Seargent in the military decides he doesn't like the result?

Heck. I bet you don't even know why we went to war in Iraq (careful! I'm setting you up here!). But you'll oppose the reasons you *think* we went just the same. I'd feel sorry for you having made such a stupid life choice based on a total lack of knowledge of the issue, if I actually believed that you did any of this at all.





Ah. Just like you supported them by bailing out at the first sign of risk to yourself. Got it. And in case you're curious. The number of casualities has *nothing* to do with it. Unless you're going to argue that WW2 was unjust based purely on the number of dead...

I'm not blinded by patriotism. I'm looking at the facts of the situation. The reality and history of the region. The reasons listed for going to war. And I understand and respect them. I'm not waving a flag around and grinning like an idiot. Unlike most people, I make my mind up based on the facts, not the rhetoric. And guess what? You are just as deluded (moreso) as that flag waving idiot is. You just don't know it. You think that by opposing something, you've magically "seen the truth", and are now a better person for it. The reality is that you've just been suckered in by a con man saying the opposite of what the other guy is saying. You're still just a tool being used by others for their own ends.

You literally repeat verbatum the words and phrases that others have put into your mouth. You clearly don't know *why* those things are true. But you believe it fervently just the same. When will you wake up to the real truth? Probably never...

Edited, Mon Sep 26 22:52:25 2005 by gbaji

Truth hurts sometimes.

Anyone else had the thought that with the us fighting a war and having a HUGE shortage of money atm for supporting the south during its ordeal that this would be the perfect time for terrorists to attack.

Just saying.

I think anyone would have to argue that 9/11 hurt us a hell of alot, the economy plumeted, the government when into furious ***** slap mode, and 2 war campaigns have spawned from it. Yes hitting a port does the same thing faster, but id have to say we are still feeling the effects of 9/11 and that they went way beyond being a being symbol.

Middle-schooler. Enjoyed that.

Call me an American again and I'll rip your innards out of your mangina.

This is the asylum, you stupid ****. We're haters here, not lovers.

And we can smell a bullshi[i][/i]t at 50 paces.

Call me an American again and I'll rip your innards out of your mangina.

[/quote]

Mangina? Is that a new word? I saw it in Katie's post earlier, but it's new to me. I luv it! I wanna create a new bard and name him Mangina. Mebbe make him a troll; don't think trolls can be bards, but a Troll named Mangina sounds terribly cool to me.

I love everyone; especially katies/pottys avatar and twice on sunday...can we sing kum ba ya now?

Your assuming that my reasons (moral disagreement with iraq war) are just some scheme to cover up my true ignorant and narrow minded views of some extreme liberal bush hater. If this makes you feel better then by all means. But as stated before this was a hard personal decision in which i still am serving and STILL am going over there, but i will do so as a Non commissioned officer. My decision has drawn a lot of critism, but it was mine to make, i am still doing my duty, i am simply doing it from a different rank. No, i do not have a choice to follow these orders, but i do have a choice of wether to give them to others. Your post really didnt address anything i said and makes me wonder if you simply scanned through a few debates and pre-judged me as some liberal idiot who was shouting antiwar phrases at arlington cemetary. The only reason i posted it in the first place was that i was just in washington(for a physics meeting, not the protest), and had also just talked with my commander, and felt it relevant to this post. I apologize if your misinterpretation of my methods lead you to a very narrow minded view of me and anyone else who dares to ask why.

As a Lieutenant or Sergeant, you will still give the orders your Commander hands down to all his soldiers. As an NCO (sergeant) you will now take the Lieutenants order and give it to the privates beneath you. So, as far as your stance goes, instead of protecting your soldiers as a Lieutenant, you have now forced yourself to give not only the Commander's orders down to your soldiers but also all the orders from Lieutenants, First Sergeants, Chief Warrant Officers, Sergeants First Class, Staff Sergeants, and other Sergeants that outrank you by time in grade. WAY TO GO protecting the soldiers you went to protect by going through ROTC.