Four blasts shake Egyptian resortFollow

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more things that go boom.....

That would probably work great if we were talking about turning paper wads into spit balls and were in the fourth grade trying to repel cooties.

Shadowrelm Wrote:


...They did?.....why would anyone think that would help anything?



I also agree with everything Shadowrelm said there.....but I have no idea what the cause of terrorism is.....because I'm either ignorant or stupid....or both.

Edited, Sat Jul 23 12:34:50 2005 by UndeadShroom

I understand why 9/11 happened, i understand why London was bombed, i understand the motivation behind the attacks on the "Christian" West.

But i cannot grasp what the could posibly gain by bombing a market in Egypt...

The majority who where killed in this attack where muslim, for "Crimes against Muslims"??

I dispise these people for all thier attacks, as much as i dispise the cowards in the Whitehouse for being too gutless to fight terrorism the right way, But i understand why the bombers bomb and why the American Govenment acts as it does.

but this, this is beyond my understanding

dispise these people for all thier attacks, as much as i dispise the cowards in the Whitehouse for being too gutless to fight terrorism the right way, But i understand why the bombers bomb and why the American Govenment acts as it does.

but this, this is beyond my understanding
-------------------------------------------------------
they are assisting us in our war in afganistan and iraq. to them, any muslim helping us is a traitor. thats why Egypt, Spain, England, and every other country around the world assisting us.

thats why all the civilian attacks in iraq also.

the solution is not that difficult. you have a muslim problem, you need a muslim solution. to take religion out of the war, you need to put religion in the war.

put muslim troops on the ground under the controll of muslim leaders to keep the peace. involve the league of arab nations. without the support of iraq,s muslim neibhors, nothing we build will stand in peace in iraq if it stands at all.

do what we need to do, but hand over the controll to other muslim countries for rebuilding and work with them as opposed to dictating to them for the rebuilding. get the christian troops out of the middle east as soon as possible.

there are plenty of muslim nations in the U.N., NATO, and the League of Arab Nations to get the job done. and more to teh point, if it is not already clear yet, we WILL NEVER be able to get the job done for no other reason than we are predominatly christian, and any action we take will be seen as a subversion of their culture by the MAJORITY of the people in the middle east.

normally this would not be a problem, as it was not a problem in Germany and Japan. but unlike germany and japan, where we took over the whole country WITH the support of their neibhors, and in japans case, a country without neibhors, the people of the ENTIRE middle east are predominatly muslim. AND they are not afriad to die for what they believe in. we basically took over a small city in a very very large nation and are trying to impose our will in the entire nation. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. short sighted. stupid. ignorant. arrogant. welcome to the moral majority.

we can win the peace in the middle east, or atleaset reduce it to a small simmering problem again between Israel and the rest of the middle east. but not on this path. and not with this president. nobody outside of this country likes or trusts him. welcome to the stastesmanship of the moral majority.

the problem is time.

in less than 50 years, the total demand for oil in the world will far outpace the total amount of oil we are pumping out of the ground. this will be a global problem. with instability in south america constantly disrupting oil production there, and a growing sence of hate against us in the midde east, there is a very good case to support a potential economical dooms day here in america. oil is a large part of our GNP. our airline industry. transportation industry. eneregy demands, especially in states that freeze in the winter. HUGE potential for loss of life and nation wide economic disaster just looming right around the corner in THIS GENERATION.

and what about China? with their billions of people and growing war machine? will they act with restraint when their need for energy exceeds their ability to purchase it fairly? we are straining to put 150,000 troops on teh ground in Iraq, the second largest supply of sweet crude on the planet. China could put 2,000,000 troops on teh ground in a heartbeat without breaking a sweat. they could decisivly controll iraq and their oil assets, especially in light of no one really liked
Hussin anyway, creating a perfect place to strike without drawing to much ire from the rest of the midde east.

terrorism in China? ROFL. China would, and has, butcherd a whole town full of people where muslim radicals were rearing their ugly head. no police action, just rolled in and killed every one.

think about the ramifications of China controlling a major source of energy while we are left to rolling the dice with unstable countries like south america, and our whole economy reeling every time some FARC radical blows up a pumping station.

teh shortage comming in less than 50 years is REAL. Chinas demand is REAL. our dependancy on oil for our economy is REAL.

iraq has nothing to do with terrorism. and considering the alternative, the attacks around the world could be an acceptable outcome compared to the economic destruction of our country. make iraq a srong, stable country that is beholding to us, and thus is entitled to OUR protection......we lock China out, and guarentee, atleast for the next 100 years, ot maintain the status quo economically both here and throughout the world.

a few thousand people die? whats that compared to the economical collapse of this country, and thousands of people here dying for lack of heating fuel or transportation, and no jobs to pay for food for theri famileys?

the big picture.

immoral? hell yes. but leadership somtimes has to make the hard decision for the best interest of the country. the clock is ticking down, and 9-11 was an opertunity that could not be passed up.

another path.

try LEADING as opposed to DICTATING.

make the harder decision. get the hell off oil as an energy source no matter how much it costs. believe it or not, that would be a harder sell to the emrican people than butchering hundreds of thousands of "them" to maintain the status quo.

nuclear plants pumping out hydrogen, and subsidized by the government. soloar panels on eveyr house for lighting and small appliances, with nuclear or hydrogen power for air and heat. cars than run on hydrogen or electric or a combination. mabe alchohol too. soy desiel. why in hell to we still make incadecent light bulbs? florescent usses an average of 1/4 the energy, lasts over twice as long, and is readily available?

the decision for war was the EASY decision.

killing innocent people was the EASY decision.

welcome to the moral majority.

Talking about Muslum thoughts...

When the tsunami's hit Thiland and much of the asian world(which muslim is the popular religion) the media of said countries were attacking Osama because he didn't help and the "Evil Western World" was. Not just the United States but countries from Russia, to Germany, to England, all the way across to Japan. Those events and those charities from the western civilization made a huge impact on the part of the world that has the "meat" of the Muslim populace. Their media protrayed Mr. Ladin as a hypocrite. Media is just as potent there as it is anywhere. There will always be nut cases, but if the majority of the people believe Mr. Ladin and Al Queda are full of sh[b][/b]it, they'll have that many less recruits to train as human hand-grenades.

Nah. You don't get the mindset of an extremist. Which is surprising really...

It doesn't matter what we do in that regard. We give command over to muslims, and they wont be "muslim enough". We remove ourselves entirely, and those left in command will be "tainted by the west" and still attacked.

You have to realize that there are two completely different motivations involved in a successful terrorist group. The people who do the attacks have a very different reason for getting involved then those who train them and send them. Those who conduct the attacks are just angry people. There will always be some in every society, no matter what we do. Tim McVeigh certainly managed to get angry enough to kill a bunch of people in OK. And that's in a country with a long history of "the people" being able to bring their issues up within the legal system, where it's pretty darn hard to starve to death, or die of exposure, and where whole vilages don't get wiped out just for being of the wrong sect of a religion. I think it's safe to say that the rate of "angry people" in the ME is higher then here in the US, right? And that does not require *anything* to do with the US for that to happen.

The second part of the equation are the terrorist leaders. They are *not* in it for the cause. They're in it for the power. They certainly have political interests, but those don't necessarily have anything to do with the arguments used on their recruits. Angry people come to them. They give them a target and a direction. They convince them that the west is responsible for whatever it is that they are angry about. It doesn't matter if we are or not.


Even if we completely removed ourselves from the ME in every way, there will still be enough angry people in the ME that other people will take advantage of them for their own ends. The process is very similar to those cults you hear about. The leaders take in people who are looking for direction in their lives. In the case of cults, the type of person is a bit different, but not that much. Once indoctrinated, you can get those people to do virtually anything for you, and justify it with even the most ridiculous arguments. It simply doesn't matter if it makes sense. You've used religion initially to suspend logic, then you use that lack of logic to fill their heads with whatever "facts" you want them to believe. Then you command them to act based on what you've told them.

The solution is twofold. You go after the leaders and their support structure. They get their money from somewhere. Their training camps are in someone's country. They have to have contacts to do what they do. The second part is to work towards alleviating the conditions that create those "angry people" in the first place. But that solution is generational. We're not going to change the minds of those who're already unhappy. It's the next generation that matters. It's a matter of getting people to think that they can have a measure of control over their lives without resorting to joining a terrorist group. Right now, the ME is chock full of pretty oppressive dictatorships. Every little bit we do to try to push for democratic reform in that part of the world helps reduce the future number of terrorist recruits.


And yeah. That means that Iraq is part of the solutions. Not right now, obviously, and not in the short term. Right now, you've just given all the angry people a nearby target for their anger. But assuming we succeed, then the next generation will look at Iraq, and then look at their own country and say "Hey! Why don't I have the freedoms that an Iraqi has?". That's how change starts. Sure. There'll still be some angry people. And they may even find their way to a terrorist camp. But more and more the focus will be on changing their own governments rather then joining some group selling them a bill of good about how they're problems are all caused by the "evil west". When they look at Iraq, they'll see (hopefully) the most "free" nation in the ME, and they'll have a direct example that maybe the west isn't what's keeping them oppressed?


That's the goal at least. No way to know if it'll work. But IMO, it's a better approach then just sitting over here and letting those terrorist leaders fill the heads of angry people with whatever they want, while we do nothing. That's guaranteed to fail...

[
************** globalization is all the Muslim wants. Think about it, the Jews and the Christians have Israel, where doe the Muslims have? nowhere.....everywhere, their dream is a Muslim world, that is why Mohammed did not create a Muslim homeland, the entire world is supposed to be their oyster. [/Red]



i was born in morocco. I do not take democracy for granted. I can tell you however that the last thing Muslims are is submissive and conformist. The most admirable quality they share is the fire in their bellies. I'll take Saudi Arabia for example, I can guarantee you that 90% of Saudi nationals are completely happy with their government \ lifestyle. You'd be surprised how many poor Saudi nationals they are..... how little poor Saudi nationals they are. The poor you see on TV are usually not Saudi nationals, but Indonesians and other immigrants.


You’re asking for the impossible, there is no way to isolate the good from the bad, no way to punish the bad and not the good. Especially when words like epiphany exist, today’s model citizen can pick up a Koran read something new and becomes tomorrow homicide bomber. There is no way to isolate the whabbists from the peace lovers.

yeah it's in saudi america, but saudi america is not the muslim homeland. They have important locations all over the middle east; ie the dome of the rock & hebron in Israel, qom and mashhad in Iran, because of these sites they belive that they should control these countires.

Where do you think Brown Jews(sephardic) come from?



I do, I've been there, 6 times. The tomb of Esther and Mordechai(Jewish heroes from the book of Esther) are in Saudi Arabia, Jews often(under security) go visit the graves during Purim. i've seen it with my own eyes



or years with dealing with the Arabs.... the whole Israeli defense force things come to mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

This is the poison. They seek nothing more than to establish total and utter domination of the West through violence and arms.

Qtub, see reference in above article, believed that the West "lives in a dream" created by its rulers. His tactic was to take out leaders to "awake the masses" and create rebellion. He was behind the attacks in Eygpt to kill its Premiere, and could not understand when the uprising didn't happen.
Rather than think his thinking wrong, he changed his ideals to now say that people "where so far into the dream" they could never be awakened....
This is why these terrorists attack indiscriminately...to them there are no innocents.

Qtub was a madman, his followers are rabid. There can be no negotiation with them, they want total subjugation.

Afghanistan, Iraq etc et al are reasons that WE put forward. WE are thinking rationally. They are driven by blind hatred and religious zeal. They want us dead or converted. No more no less. The total death of our culture and way of life.