Religion (because I already did a thread on homosexuality)Follow

You and your wife should probably get out more.


..then again me and my woman often stand around and condescendingly talk about the human race as well...


nevermind, carry on.

Few years back there was a series on PBS about the human brain. Only part I can still remember was about a guy who would feel like he was in the presence of God whenever he went into a epileptic seizure. The sciencist interview seem to feel they found a part of the brain that was wire to be spirital.

I gone though times when I don't believe in any "Creator type Being," Only thing that keeps me going though is the fact that I am a very spirital person and can't give up the thought that somehow as humans we interact spiritally with each other. Infact, I think it's this abillity to be spirital, that has created cultures though the ages.

Here's my "excuse" for this:

There is a Physical existance and a non-Physical existance.

If the aspect of "G-D" that you seek is on the non-Physical side, than how are you going to "see" it with tools from the Physical world?

and I mean Science and Logic all are rules and explainations based soley on the Physical aspect of existance, all things that Humans have concocted to keep things in order.




How many times have you seen an animal trying to find the other animal behind the mirror?

Your view is stuck in one direction. I am pointing at the sky and you are still staring at the ground claiming not to see.


It's like trying to point somthing out to a dog and the dog keeps staring at your finger instead of waht your pointing at.

To be more clear on this ,briefly (cause I wanna for once get home and beat traffic instead of arguing on this damn forum)


I do recgonize the existence of gods and faeries and dragons et cetera, but only as a form that is giving to them from the observer.

I closer explaination in the bounds of your idea of reality is that there are patterns of "energy" (to be generic)

That there are energy patterns that can be percieved even as sentient and concious with HUMAN TRAITS.

BUT

The only thing that allows them to have human traits like arms and legs and white flowing beards is becaues that is how our minds our adjusted to see them.

It is abstract.

This things have no TRUE shape.
SHAPE is part of the physical world of which they are not.

Therefore waht are they? Energy as I have said before... The nature of this energy I cannot give you details of cause I'm an un-educated dullard. But it goes along with that fact of "matter is energy".


So these patterns of energies have temperments... or frequencies that can somtimes translate as human emotions.... or emotional states... or even conscious states....

So if a creature of of a particular energy that gives a human observer the feeling of JOY, that feeling will have to have an IMAGE attached to it that the Human observer asigns to it..... be it a fairy or an angel or wahtever...
It is humans looking though Human coloured glassses if you will...

Personifying an energy force or pattern is similar to throwing paint on the Invisible Man... until that is done it is all speculations.

So we MUST add our own oppinionated perceptions to the unknown in order to provide ourselves with somthing to grasp on to.


I tell you waht I have seen Is TOTAL evidence of "SOMTHING ELSE"

Spells, prayers, spirits.... cosmic coincidences that nearly drove me MAD.... I have looked at all of these things with a sceptical eye to convince myself that I wasn't crazy and YET the more I did the more the evidence would present itself... Eventually I accepted that I wwas either ENTIRELY in a ****** up delusionary state.... or there is SOMTHING Out there..


You ask me to prove it to you? I can only tell you stories that you prolly wouldn't believe.... I've seen **** that would turn you White!


I dont discount that I could be crazy..... but if I am.. then it's BIG TIME.. cause I testify to you.. the things that I have witnessed leave me beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is Somthing Else.


I know the power of the mind is strong and can be tricky and decieving..... But does not that argumant work both ways???

You can say that It's just my mind telling me that these things are true.... But I can just say that it is your mind telling you that they are false.... it swings both ways.

You have science, which is Obseration of thngs of a physical nature..... There is more to it than that.

Studying grains of sand is not the same as studying atoms, but they have similarities.




**** I got to get out of here.

Expect more inane psycho-babble forthcoming.

Let's see....

I don't care if there is a god or gods, if there is an afterlife and in that afterlife, a heaven or hell. Not a case of I don't believe in it, but a matter of not giving a flip- What would that be defined as? O.o

Standard I'd say

again you rely on saying god is "immeasurable". That it's all perception. And again i simply say that if he/she is infact "immeasurabe", if he/she has left no proof of existence, if he/she cannot be detected, if he/she is unexplaineable and un-provable by current means:

Then there is no reason for anyone to believe in god other than unwillingness to let go of personal superstitions.

Now, before you respond, think of the ramifications of that, of the fact that your beliefs are induced from false superstitions, that your foundations are on half arguements, and that your feelings may very likely be manifistations of your own willingness to accept something you want to believe in. Again i say ive been there, i sworn there was a god, i KNEW there was a god, i felt him, i saw "miracles", and it was only after i gave up my harness of superstition that i could see my blindness and realize i was fighting for something that had no justification, something that i believed simply "because".

as for your arguement of god being another form of energy that we cannot detect, thats the "Immeasurable" point again. If god interacts with this world in ANY way, that way cuases some force. The idea that we are energy and are only in the shape our mind percieves us is off base too. Yes, we are matter, and yes matter is energy, but we see each other by simple decoding of varying frequencies of light that hit our eyes, an ability that many creatures have developed over the eons to become more efficient macro chemical machines. Yes, there is an error of perception, but attempting to play on people ignorance of the biological reactions behind it in order to facilitate a "Mysterious" truth is a bit Naive and offensive.

as for energy states that can cause emotion in use, same point, if these energies have the power or ability to react say on the electro-magnetic level and force chemical responses in humans, then they are inherently detectable by even the simplest of electronic detectors, although i doubt youll get much success finding god on your EEG.




Edited, Wed Jul 6 17:16:57 2005 by EvilPhysicist

this made me chuckle. How, exactly, did the US Air force harass the elves and fairies?

To be clear on the meat and potåtoes of waht we're discussing:

I'm not attempting to prove god to you.

I don't think of God as a personified diety. Wehn I say GOD; I mean an all prevailing machine of clockwork-like precision and perfection; not a conciousness as We would recognize it; not a He or She either. I'm thinking of a universal source from which all flows. It flows out in a pattern. Those patterns come in varying frequencies of the variable that I am calling 'energy'.
This energy goes from solid to 'ethereal'. The physical universe is like the frozen surface of a lake. It is the 'hardening' of the energy into waht we know as the logical and tangible. The rules of the surface are not the same as the rules beneath the 'ice'.
Time is irrelevant in this pattern and is merely the various windows through which 'moments' or aspects of this pattern or 'existance' are experienced. Yada yada yada


Before I became aware of this (and please keep in mind that I KNOW it's all speculation, because "waht do I know?") I was raised Christian. I was raised Christian until I was about 6 or 7 years old. After that time I didn't think about God or Fate. I didn't think about it one bit. Therefore I know how much of a non-issue this can be for most people. At a certain point in my life I became interested in things that were 'mysteries' to mankind. But I digress...
My quest for this stuff was not to mask some seeded feeling of inadequacy, it was for just knowing. I'd read up on things ect... But I still listened to rap, and shoplifted from stores and got into fights and all the other normal things a kid does.
One day, during a thunderstorm, I was bored and staring out the patio window on a ground level apartment, 12 yrs old I think. I was reading a book that was called "The Encyclopaedia of Things That Never Were", a mere alphabetical listing of names and places and things from legends, myths, and fairy tales, and I recognized it as such. AS I read it however I came to notice that many of these things were merely misinterpretations of everyday phenomenon, others just outlandish stories. I than began to wonder why the rational explanation couldn't merely be another way of explaining some phenomenon that we had little understanding of. Such as ancient people knew there was a Sun, but they didn't understand waht it was so they made somthing up and had endless methods of explaining it, as do we with science. It seems at that point I must have became insane. I did believe in ghosts, they were talked about in my family as if they were real, and local tales abound.. I started wondering about everyting else in the world.. anyway.. I had been reading about the "scarab" beetle and for some reason became quite facinated with it. The Egyptian symbols just "looked so cool" I guess.
SO this thunder storm is going on..... and I started staring at one spot outside in the field... and I started saying the Latin words for 'scarab' over and over again.... I don't really recall why.. except that I was curious... I then saw t lightning bolts come down from different parts of the sky and strike together and on the ground while they hit I saw the glowing shape of a scarab beetle. I was taken aback for a long time. THat's the first time I began to reallly wonder about things.. but my life hadn't really changed.. too much..

Another quick and Small example.. I had been playing with Scandinavian rune stones. Reading peopes stones and wahtnot in class and at parties. Also inevitably I was studying the usual witchy books.. yet, none of them satisfies me. I realized the every single fu[b][/b]cking one of those cheeseball Llewellyn books with the Moon on the spine was gonna tell me diddly except another persons interpretation of waht everything was all about and how it worked; much like the Bible.
Anyway, I was sitting there in Math Class and this "goth" dork walks near me clutching a crystal necklace and I'm like "waht the hell is that ****?". He jokingly says "oooo,I'm gonna put a curse on you" and I scoffed and riped of a little piece of notebook paper and scribbled the Rune of Constraint (usualy associated with humiliation) on it, and I told him to take it and put it in his pocket.
NOw this guy in 10-11th grade was aro9und 300 lbs. a BIg Guy. LAter that day during lunch, he sat down and his chair broke underneath of him. The entire commons was standing, pointing and laughin... all but me.

This is a REALLY PETTY example, and very early one. I don't call myself a witch and Wiccans usualy annoy the **** out of me.



I have noticed a greatmany many things that have blown my mind. I know that I could easily explain away things as coincedence or delusion. I could be seeing so many wierd things because I am looking for them, but wehn I am given the notion that everything that I have ever thought was "real" and "normal" is really NOT that way, I think abot it a whole hell of alot. And it took me many ,many years of pondering and delving.. and observing, and meditating... I have searched out the possibilities that I am crazy or my thoughts are misconstrued and I still STILL, even after growing up, after dealing with bills, getting up for 9 to 5 jobs, watching endlessly bad movies, and talking to person after person about these thing, I STILL kno that things are not waht they seem and yet I have only found about 5 or 6 people in my LIFE that I would say are as "crazy" as I am.

I realize that doubt is the enemy.

If it all is some mental construct that I use to get by in daily life.... well so be it. My life is enriched beyond anything I would have ever imagined and I am enlightened.

I do not post these things here to preach. I post them here becaue I like making people think. I also like bouncing my iseas off of people.
I mean, If I REALLY wanted to start REALLY converting people, don';t you think I'd hang out on Wicca forums or other pagan religous cheeseball forums to spread my word to people who would be easily puesuaded. THis is all for my personal ammusment, and if someone is caused to use an extras braincell while reading it, ALl the BEtter.

If I was to have "evidence" of a divine being, you'd be the last person I'd attempt to share it with. No one is more judgemental and self-righteous than the reformed. I honestly doubt that any show of faith or divinity would make you turn from your assurances that what you can detect and perceive is all there is and that anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded and foolish. As a wiser man than myself was once reported to say: Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you..

I went all King James there for that classic touch

hmm,
to kelv:
so you think of god as the ethereal energy of our universe...
its like your trying to mesh actual science with your desperate attempt to name something god, whether its logical or just plain silly. In this case id have to say just plain silly.


To Jophiel:
Your correct, no act of "Faith" will ever convince me, faith and spiritual acts are ludacrious and irrelavent to someone who doesnt believe in them.
BUT: i have repeatively said that every atheist in the world would believe in god given even the slightest proof. The fact that we deny everything you bring to the table isnt that we are narrow minded, its simply your arguments are very hollow and usually pathetically thought out. Although i LOVE that even though ive considered both sides of the arguement and would even embrace the idea of a higher being given evidence, i am still called narrow minded. I guess its all you have left to do is critisize me for not agreeing with you. But i really dont expect anything different from someone narrow minded as you (im calling you narrow minded not to be a hypocrit but to show you how easy it is to throw out that word any time you dont agree with someone.)
and as for your bible quote, im glad you consider your wisdom as pearls and everyone who disagrees as swine lol.

THAT's the best you can come up with?


DUHHH! Why WOULN'T I try to figure it out and try to find scientific explainations for the things that I experience.

You're just a bitter person who got pissed off cause he couldn't figure out the mysteries of the universe through being a good little sheep so takes it out on all other faith in the world by giving it all the same qualites that you found in Your Particular interpretaion of Christianity.

You lost faith and so you think that everyone else should too.
You're a vampire.

Well, actually it was Jesus who considered that since that passage is him warning the disciples not to waste time sharing their message with the close-minded. I'm just quoting.

Erm.. lol

I honestly don't care what you believe. I already stated that I don't call myself Christian and doubt that the Bible is wholely the inspired Word. If atheists bothered me, I'd have left the internet long ago since they generally represent the majority on a general forum. But you've two kinds of athiests: ones who say "I don't believe but if you have faith, that's cool and I respect that even though it's not my bag" and those who say "Anyone who has faith is a superstitious caveman or a deluded fool and an idiot". The former is worth having a discussion with, the latter is rarely good for anything fruitful except to hear self-righteousness as tiresome as that of any Born Again Evangelical. Guess which catagory you've placed yourself in?