I guess I'm just in a mood to stir sh[/b]it or something lately (heh, or maybe I'm just trying to **** off Varrus again), but I'm curious what everyone's religious beliefs are. And no, I'm not asking "are you Christian or Hindu or Athiest or Wiccan or..?" I mean, what are YOUR actual beliefs? If you're Catholic, is there anything you believe that the Catholic church doesn't teach or teaches differently? If you're Athiest, what do you personally feel consciousness is? If you're Wiccan, do you follow a New Age doctrine or are you a more traditional paganist? That sort of thing.
For me, I believe in a "supreme entity", but I also believe that that entity is beyond human comprehension. I believe that all the different religions assign a personality and an identity to that being as a way to better identify with it. So I actually believe that there is no "wrong" religion. As I see it, our creator doesn't care WHAT we call him/her/it/them/whatever, because it all fundamentally amounts to the same thing. Almost all of the major religions on earth teach us to "do good things, don't do bad things, and be nice". It's usually just the trappings of each religion that are different. Catholics believe in saints and confession and baptism, while Native Americans believe in nature spirits. But underneath it all, I don't think it matters which religion we choose for ourselves, we're all still following the same "God".
I also believe that there is no such thing as Hell or "eternal punishment". It makes no sense to me at all that we would be created just so that some of us could spend all of time being tormented mercilessly. I guess you could say that I believe in good, but I don't believe in evil. We're more than capable of wrongdoing, but I don't believe there's an evil force driving us to commit bad deeds.
So what about you guys, what are the particulars on your religious beliefs (or lack thereof)?
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I also believe that there is no such thing as Hell or "eternal punishment".
Some of you guys better hope that you're right about that one.
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So I actually believe that there is no "wrong" religion.
What would be the point of doing anything for God if everything was right?
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Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
"god" is like a rainbow.
It's obviously there. In reality, (being light) rainbows are in contstant existance, just not always visible. However wehn a certain set of circumstances arise; some people are made aware of the different colourful patterns within that light.
Now wehn looking at a rainbow.... if you try to get close to it.. it will seem to move away... as in: You cannot "find" the end of the rainbow.
another aspect of rainbows is that how you are seeing it is going to be relative to where you are standing in relation to the Light and the Mist. So wehn one person is standing at PointA and sees a rainbow at PointC, a person standing at PointB looking directly at PointC may see nothing at all. In that sense it's all a matter of where you're standing in the scheme of things. If you submitted to the right set of circumstances you will see a rainbow or in another set you will see nothing but the usual everyday light or see a rainbow; only not as clear.
in that sense you could say that all rainbows are different according to the different people percieving them. They are all seeing from different sources of light. However the source and the cause is waht makes it universal.
so in a nutshell; religion is gay.
Edited, Tue Jul 5 15:48:59 2005 by Kelvyquayo
It's obviously there. In reality, (being light) rainbows are in contstant existance, just not always visible. However wehn a certain set of circumstances arise; some people are made aware of the different colourful patterns within that light.
Now wehn looking at a rainbow.... if you try to get close to it.. it will seem to move away... as in: You cannot "find" the end of the rainbow.
another aspect of rainbows is that how you are seeing it is going to be relative to where you are standing in relation to the Light and the Mist. So wehn one person is standing at PointA and sees a rainbow at PointC, a person standing at PointB looking directly at PointC may see nothing at all. In that sense it's all a matter of where you're standing in the scheme of things. If you submitted to the right set of circumstances you will see a rainbow or in another set you will see nothing but the usual everyday light or see a rainbow; only not as clear.
in that sense you could say that all rainbows are different according to the different people percieving them. They are all seeing from different sources of light. However the source and the cause is waht makes it universal.
so in a nutshell; religion is gay.
Edited, Tue Jul 5 15:48:59 2005 by Kelvyquayo
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I also believe that there is no such thing as Hell or "eternal punishment".
I believe there is, but only for gays.
I believe similar to Saboruto, except I do believe that there are evil spirits as well as good spirits, and there is a Hell in addition to Heaven. I believe in reincarnation and past and future lives.
Open mined Atheist, yup...... There is no godm, heaven, hell,karma, reincarnation, *** seeking holy **** ferrets.... basicly i believe religion is just a bunch of fairy tails. let the flame wars begin... to tired to go into elaborate details, kinda wanna go pass out.
Kelv wrote:
In reality, (being light) rainbows are in contstant existance, just not always visible. However wehn a certain set of circumstances arise; some people are made aware of the different colourful patterns within that light.
This made me think of..
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If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
In time you will know the answer grasshopper.
Leondol wrote:
Open mined Atheist, yup...... There is no godm, heaven, hell,karma, reincarnation, *** seeking holy **** ferrets.... basicly i believe religion is just a bunch of fairy tails. let the flame wars begin... to tired to go into elaborate details, kinda wanna go pass out.
It's that little number that keeps going down located just under your name moran.
Next he's going to try to say that post counts don't exist...
Edited, Tue Jul 5 16:01:06 2005 by ElderonXI
ElderonXI the Wise wrote:
Kelv wrote:
In reality, (being light) rainbows are in contstant existance, just not always visible. However wehn a certain set of circumstances arise; some people are made aware of the different colourful patterns within that light.
This made me think of..
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If a tree falls in a forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?
In time you will know the answer grasshopper.
funny
I thought of this comparison last week wehn I saw one of the hugest and most solid rainbows I'd ever seen. It nearly stopped highway traffic.
Then pondering on my thought I did boil it down to that 'tree in a forest making a sound thing'.
Which boils down to "If there is no-one to observe anything, does anything exist?",
then I would boil it down to "Waht does Obervation mean?"
Do plants "Observe" sunlight? Waht about animals? Waht about microbes? OR waht if there is somthing that may be translated as "God" that is there to Observe everyting to keep it in existance for wehn nothing is looking...
Now couple this train of thought to Einsteins relativity theories concerning the observers of light and space and time and develope a splitting headache.
I believe there is a God. I don't much believe in organized religon. I also want to believe there is something after we die. I am far to selfish to let my personality just disapate into nothing.
However at night in the dark. I am pretty sure there is nothing.
However at night in the dark. I am pretty sure there is nothing.
The law of opposites is inescapable. EVERYthing has an opposite...where there is light, there is also dark...where there is good, there is also evil. Everywhere you go you see this...it is not by accident.
It's highly illogical to believe that there is a "heaven" but no "hell". If there were no hell, there would be no consequences for bad actions (despite the fact that it would violate the law mentioned above).
I'm a spiritual person...I do believe there is a God, I do believe in the historical evidence of a sandal wearin dude that did some wacky stuff a couple thousand years ago, and I do believe there is an afterlife (what would be the point if there wasn't?). My vision of said afterlife is somewhat aligned with the movie "What Dreams May Come" if you've ever seen it...everyone has their own private version of heaven.
Basically what do those words "heaven" and "hell" mean to you? What do you see them as?
Heaven to me is a place without pain or sorrow, and a place where one is never wanting for anything. It is peace incarnate.
Hell is of course...the exact opposite. Where there is no joy or pleasure, where you can never achieve what it is you want, and where you can never escape. It doesn't have to be actual *pain* like the fire and brimstone renditions. It is chaos incarnate.
It's highly illogical to believe that there is a "heaven" but no "hell". If there were no hell, there would be no consequences for bad actions (despite the fact that it would violate the law mentioned above).
I'm a spiritual person...I do believe there is a God, I do believe in the historical evidence of a sandal wearin dude that did some wacky stuff a couple thousand years ago, and I do believe there is an afterlife (what would be the point if there wasn't?). My vision of said afterlife is somewhat aligned with the movie "What Dreams May Come" if you've ever seen it...everyone has their own private version of heaven.
Basically what do those words "heaven" and "hell" mean to you? What do you see them as?
Heaven to me is a place without pain or sorrow, and a place where one is never wanting for anything. It is peace incarnate.
Hell is of course...the exact opposite. Where there is no joy or pleasure, where you can never achieve what it is you want, and where you can never escape. It doesn't have to be actual *pain* like the fire and brimstone renditions. It is chaos incarnate.
My main religious exposure as a small child (until age 12) was Southern Baptist (transplanted Southern Baptists in Flint, Michigan yearning for down home, no less.)
My main religious exposure until the age of 18 was Christian Reformed, an extremely conservative (no dancing, no shopping on Sunday, etc) denomination favored by the upper middle class Dutch descendants in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The best part about that was watching the annual candlelight vigil in response to the Synod they had at Calvin College once again voting down allowing women into the clergy.
About the time I was 18, I decided they were all full of ****.
I believe in some sort of supreme being. I cannot accept that there is nothing greater than our puny selves in the universe.
I also believe its presumptuous to give a name to that supreme being, or assume that we know its will. I think most people shape this surpreme being in their own likeness, and end up farther away from the truth of it as a result.
I do not believe that the supreme being is some dirty old man peeping in everyone's bedroom windows to see who is sleeping with whom. I don't believe this supreme being cares about our reproductive habits. Those are human issues, and humans have projected them onto the being they call "God."
I believe that religion has been mainly used as a political tool. The whole "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's" is pretty much a rationale for keeping women subservient and slaves content with their lot. Religion is the prod the powerful tend to use to secure their power and keep the less powerful in line by threatening them with eternal punishment if they don't obey.
I believe in treating other people with respect and dignity until they give me cause to do otherwise in their treatment of me, regardless of the color of their skin, the supreme being they choose to believe in, or their sexual preferences.
No so much a religion as it is a personal credo, but there you have it.
My main religious exposure until the age of 18 was Christian Reformed, an extremely conservative (no dancing, no shopping on Sunday, etc) denomination favored by the upper middle class Dutch descendants in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The best part about that was watching the annual candlelight vigil in response to the Synod they had at Calvin College once again voting down allowing women into the clergy.
About the time I was 18, I decided they were all full of ****.
I believe in some sort of supreme being. I cannot accept that there is nothing greater than our puny selves in the universe.
I also believe its presumptuous to give a name to that supreme being, or assume that we know its will. I think most people shape this surpreme being in their own likeness, and end up farther away from the truth of it as a result.
I do not believe that the supreme being is some dirty old man peeping in everyone's bedroom windows to see who is sleeping with whom. I don't believe this supreme being cares about our reproductive habits. Those are human issues, and humans have projected them onto the being they call "God."
I believe that religion has been mainly used as a political tool. The whole "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and unto God what is God's" is pretty much a rationale for keeping women subservient and slaves content with their lot. Religion is the prod the powerful tend to use to secure their power and keep the less powerful in line by threatening them with eternal punishment if they don't obey.
I believe in treating other people with respect and dignity until they give me cause to do otherwise in their treatment of me, regardless of the color of their skin, the supreme being they choose to believe in, or their sexual preferences.
No so much a religion as it is a personal credo, but there you have it.
My beliefs change a lot. I'm not sure why though. Maybe "the gods" are all telling me different things.
In a nutshell, I believe in "a force" if you will, yes, not unlike the one in Star Wars. No, I don't believe in Jedi, lol. But there's good and evil out there, and we are influenced by both sides. It's up to us to decide which side we're going to listen to.
And then there are the times that I think L. Ron might have been on to something. I'm no Scientologist, but the thought has crossed my mind that maybe it's not so much a super being out there than it is just another race. Maybe we come from them like offspring, or maybe they engineered us.
And then there are the rare occasions that my old Southern Baptist upbringing starts talking to me again. That's usually after I've upset my mother though
Edited, Tue Jul 5 16:33:28 2005 by Nadenu
In a nutshell, I believe in "a force" if you will, yes, not unlike the one in Star Wars. No, I don't believe in Jedi, lol. But there's good and evil out there, and we are influenced by both sides. It's up to us to decide which side we're going to listen to.
And then there are the times that I think L. Ron might have been on to something. I'm no Scientologist, but the thought has crossed my mind that maybe it's not so much a super being out there than it is just another race. Maybe we come from them like offspring, or maybe they engineered us.
And then there are the rare occasions that my old Southern Baptist upbringing starts talking to me again. That's usually after I've upset my mother though
Edited, Tue Jul 5 16:33:28 2005 by Nadenu
aceofwilds wrote:
The law of opposites is inescapable. EVERYthing has an opposite...where there is light, there is also dark...where there is good, there is also evil....
I'm a spiritual person...I do believe there is a God,..
I'm a spiritual person...I do believe there is a God,..
So, waht's the opposite of God?
aceofwilds wrote:
It's highly illogical to believe that there is a "heaven" but no "hell".
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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So, waht's the opposite of God?
There are two possibilities really:
1. A Devil (ie. Satan, Lucifer, whatever you want to call him).
2. A void...nothingness. The opposite of God can simply be the absense of Him...an opposite is not necessarily tangible.
Light and Dark are opposites...but there is no such thing as "dark"...it is merely the absense of light.
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So, waht's the opposite of God?
umm... varus?
Ambrya wrote:
Too weird, I came from the same denomination and never in a million years would I think to come across someone who had the same background in this place.
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My main religious exposure until the age of 18 was Christian Reformed, an extremely conservative (no dancing, no shopping on Sunday, etc) denomination favored by the upper middle class Dutch descendants in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Too weird, I came from the same denomination and never in a million years would I think to come across someone who had the same background in this place.
I am an atheist. I became an atheist after years of being a theist, mroe specifically baptist, methodist, then church of god..
My reasoning for becoming an atheist developed from increased academic persuit. Not to say all religios people are un-educated, nor all atheist brillant lol. My falling away from personal religion developed as i studied the origins of christianity, and then other world religions, and found them all to be lacking in any solidarity other than the fact that each spawned from a budding culture attempting to survive and strengthend as the centuries passed by simple deliniation of stories that became accepted fact and eventually written word.
The point where i went from not believing any of the world religions to actually saying there is no god,(and as a scientist saying "this does not exist" with any affirmation heralds great cristism unless based on heavy fact or mathematical proof), arrose from my studies in physics and mathematics. Once i had a better understanding of our universe and its mechanics the probability of the existence of a god dwindled. Ofcourse, as a scientist i always allow for the "chance" of something being, and that chance is always weighted by its probabilty, that probability is determined by the # of facts or premises for that theory. Thus, god may have a probablity of some sort to exist, but with the given data it is so low that i can reasonably and comfortably call it 0 and say without any disdain toward relgios people:
There is no god.
Now i understand not everyone comes from the same background and everyone has different views of some of the same arguements, so im not here to convince anyone that there is no god, simply to explain why i personally do not believe.
As to Kelv's thread: A rainbow can be photographed, can god? i ask this not to invoke an annoyed response that im taking your saying out of context, but to simply shed light that even the best analogies attempting to show a "description" of how god is or justify his existence will always be laughed at by any skeptic for it lacks any proof, facts, or meaning, and simply relies on tricking the individual into accepting one idea in relation to another vaguely contructed one.
My reasoning for becoming an atheist developed from increased academic persuit. Not to say all religios people are un-educated, nor all atheist brillant lol. My falling away from personal religion developed as i studied the origins of christianity, and then other world religions, and found them all to be lacking in any solidarity other than the fact that each spawned from a budding culture attempting to survive and strengthend as the centuries passed by simple deliniation of stories that became accepted fact and eventually written word.
The point where i went from not believing any of the world religions to actually saying there is no god,(and as a scientist saying "this does not exist" with any affirmation heralds great cristism unless based on heavy fact or mathematical proof), arrose from my studies in physics and mathematics. Once i had a better understanding of our universe and its mechanics the probability of the existence of a god dwindled. Ofcourse, as a scientist i always allow for the "chance" of something being, and that chance is always weighted by its probabilty, that probability is determined by the # of facts or premises for that theory. Thus, god may have a probablity of some sort to exist, but with the given data it is so low that i can reasonably and comfortably call it 0 and say without any disdain toward relgios people:
There is no god.
Now i understand not everyone comes from the same background and everyone has different views of some of the same arguements, so im not here to convince anyone that there is no god, simply to explain why i personally do not believe.
As to Kelv's thread: A rainbow can be photographed, can god? i ask this not to invoke an annoyed response that im taking your saying out of context, but to simply shed light that even the best analogies attempting to show a "description" of how god is or justify his existence will always be laughed at by any skeptic for it lacks any proof, facts, or meaning, and simply relies on tricking the individual into accepting one idea in relation to another vaguely contructed one.
Agnostic here. Don't believe in organized religion and tend to view things with a more scientific angle. However, I do have an open mind and am willing to admit there's lots in the universe still unexplained.
Redjedblue wrote:
My condolences.
Where do you hail from? I don't know what epicenters of the CRC exist except for western Michigan.
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Too weird, I came from the same denomination
My condolences.
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and never in a million years would I think to come across someone who had the same background in this place.
Where do you hail from? I don't know what epicenters of the CRC exist except for western Michigan.
I have no set "religion" but a faith in God. I find religion to be manmade with rules I do not believe God would have created. The closest book that has ever come my way to justly explain my belief system is Conversations with God, by Neale Donald Walsh.
God is everything, nothing, and in between.
A few good quotes from the book are bvelow, just a small sampling of what hits home to me:
You cannot know God until you’ve stopped telling yourself that you already know God. You cannot hear God until you stop thinking that you’ve already heard God. I cannot tell you My Truth until you stop telling Me yours.
And the reason is found in the first lie—the lie which you hold as the truth about God—that God cannot be trusted; that God’s love cannot be depended upon; that God’s acceptance of you is conditional; that the ultimate outcome is thus in doubt. For if you cannot depend on God’s love to always be there, on whose love can you depend? If God retreats and withdraws when you do not perform properly, will not mere mortals also?
The deepest secret is that life is not a process of discovery, but a process of creation. You are not discovering yourself, but creating yourself anew. Seek, therefore, not to find out Who You Are, seek to determine Who You Want to Be.
Judge not, then, the karmic path walked by another. Envy not success, nor pity failure, for you know not what is success or failure in the soul’s reckoning.
The world is in the condition it is in because of you, and the choices you have made—or failed to make. (Not to decide is to decide.) The Earth is in the shape it’s in because of you, and the choices you have made—or failed to make. Your own life is the way it is because of you, and the choices you have made—or failed to make
You claim that any promise which gives you the power, and guarantees you the love of God must be the false promise of the devil.
If you think God looks only one way or sounds only one way or is only one way, you’re going to look right past Me night and day. You’ll spend your whole life looking for God and not finding Her. Because you’re looking for a Him.
God is in the sadness and the laughter, in the bitter and the sweet. There is a divine purpose behind everything—and therefore a divine presence in everything.
The First thing to understand about the universe is that no condition is “good†or “bad.†It just is. So stop making value judgments. The second thing to know is that all conditions are temporary. Nothing stays the same, nothing remains static. Which way a thing changes depends on you.
You are making mock of Me. You are saying that I, God, made inherently imperfect beings, then have demanded of them to be perfect, or face damnation.
You are saying then that, somewhere several thousand years into the world’s experience, I relented, saying that from then on you didn’t necessarily have to be good, you simply had to feel bad when you were not being good, and accept as your savior the One Being who could always be perfect, thus satisfying My hunger for perfection. You are saying that My Son—who you call the One Perfect One—has saved you from your own imperfection—the imperfection I gave you. In other words, God’s Son has saved you from what His Father did.
I could go on and on, but I dont want to make this any ;arger than a normal Gbaji post
God is everything, nothing, and in between.
A few good quotes from the book are bvelow, just a small sampling of what hits home to me:
You cannot know God until you’ve stopped telling yourself that you already know God. You cannot hear God until you stop thinking that you’ve already heard God. I cannot tell you My Truth until you stop telling Me yours.
And the reason is found in the first lie—the lie which you hold as the truth about God—that God cannot be trusted; that God’s love cannot be depended upon; that God’s acceptance of you is conditional; that the ultimate outcome is thus in doubt. For if you cannot depend on God’s love to always be there, on whose love can you depend? If God retreats and withdraws when you do not perform properly, will not mere mortals also?
The deepest secret is that life is not a process of discovery, but a process of creation. You are not discovering yourself, but creating yourself anew. Seek, therefore, not to find out Who You Are, seek to determine Who You Want to Be.
Judge not, then, the karmic path walked by another. Envy not success, nor pity failure, for you know not what is success or failure in the soul’s reckoning.
The world is in the condition it is in because of you, and the choices you have made—or failed to make. (Not to decide is to decide.) The Earth is in the shape it’s in because of you, and the choices you have made—or failed to make. Your own life is the way it is because of you, and the choices you have made—or failed to make
You claim that any promise which gives you the power, and guarantees you the love of God must be the false promise of the devil.
If you think God looks only one way or sounds only one way or is only one way, you’re going to look right past Me night and day. You’ll spend your whole life looking for God and not finding Her. Because you’re looking for a Him.
God is in the sadness and the laughter, in the bitter and the sweet. There is a divine purpose behind everything—and therefore a divine presence in everything.
The First thing to understand about the universe is that no condition is “good†or “bad.†It just is. So stop making value judgments. The second thing to know is that all conditions are temporary. Nothing stays the same, nothing remains static. Which way a thing changes depends on you.
You are making mock of Me. You are saying that I, God, made inherently imperfect beings, then have demanded of them to be perfect, or face damnation.
You are saying then that, somewhere several thousand years into the world’s experience, I relented, saying that from then on you didn’t necessarily have to be good, you simply had to feel bad when you were not being good, and accept as your savior the One Being who could always be perfect, thus satisfying My hunger for perfection. You are saying that My Son—who you call the One Perfect One—has saved you from your own imperfection—the imperfection I gave you. In other words, God’s Son has saved you from what His Father did.
I could go on and on, but I dont want to make this any ;arger than a normal Gbaji post
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