closing guantanimoFollow

alot of talk from the left about doing away with this base as it has become an embarassment to this country.

this is why the left lost the presidential race. and why so many formally left leaning people have joined the right. spineless. chickensheit. just flat out missing or ignoring the problem all together. just like Kerry and Gore.

"oh look, that mugger just stole that lady,s purse."
lefty - "we should make a law to stop people from carrying purses"
righty - "SHOOT THE *******."

and the democratic party wonders why the word "liberal" is associated with the word "wimp" with so many americans. i am ashamed of the entire democratic leadership. inspite of that, i can not bring myself to join a party that is flat out unconscionable, and borderline evil. Dean stands up adn calls it like he sees it. and if he would stop frothing at the mouth, people might even take him seriously. the liberal left? they jump away form confrontation like a geek in the football locker room. they put a wall between themselves and dean. Kerry understood too late that calling it like Dean did without frothing at the mouth won alot of support. infact, he won more votes than anyone in history because of it. anyone except Bush that is, who was riding on a wave of "SHOOT THE *******" sentiment from 911.

back to guantanimo.

closing the base will do nothing for our immage abroad. where we hold prisoners is not the issue undermining our integrity and honor. where we hold prisoners is not the issue driving an increase of islamic extremist running out to find an american to kill.

Carter should be calling it like Dean, minus the frothing at the mouth. he should be standing up and demanding, not the closing of a prison, but the IMPEACEMENT of the idiot with the microphone who condoned the actions at the prison.

that will improve our integrity with the world abroad. does the democratic party really think the world is stupid enough to believe it is the prison that is the problem as opposed to the people in charge of it? are they too chickensheit and spineless to stand up and call it like it is? are they too afraid of the right ot make a stand?

sadly, it appears so.

the left needs a hero. someone with a spine. someone with integrity. some one with BALLS, IE not Mrs Clinton. not only do they need a hero, america needs one. the world needs one. it is mindboggeling how much pain our leadership is inflicting on the rest of humanity throughout the world. mindboggeling, and unconscionable. borderline evil.

close guantanimo? how about jack slaping Carter for sugesting it, and impeach the ******* holding the microphone for allowing it to happen.

just my openion from the radical left as opposed to the wimpy left.

+1 MAD

why is it our only choices for president are bad, bad, and worse?

even the independants have, for the most part, been a bunch of whackos.

kerry? a divorce with kids all over the place. dean? a frothing lunatic. gore? datached from the world. Bush? just evil. nader? dude, whats up with his eyes?

now Clinton is gonna run? OMG why dont they just let the next republican candidate have it after the republican nomination?

the democratic party deserves to loose. if they dont have enough spine to put the blame where it belongs with this prisoner mess, they deserve to be out in the felds grazing in bliss with the rest of america while our country gets shatered from the inside out.

YOU deserve to loose too for letting it happen and chanting the party line you are spunn on the great shiny box when the anti christ speaks. like a false prophet leading the sheep to slaughter in the last days. i can see most of you will go along willingly singing his praise. infact, with what i have wittnessed in this country for the last 4 years, i can see this country becoming one of the seven jewels of the north in the last days.

what happened to our integrity? our honor? our compassion? we cant lead without them.

we were better than this once.

what happens to a CEO of a large corperation when the company is indicted for fraud? they get a wink and a nod, with the board members saying, "it wasnt his fault, he was delt a bad hand"?

accountability starts at the top or it doesnt start at all. the world is watching.

Nailed it, and We The People give them the power anyways.

"Closing terror prison tricky for U.S."

the headlines in the paper today. liberal media? how about chickensheit, afraid of public embarassment media.

why is no one asking the hard questions? why is no one calling the kettle black?

1. was the prison itself eveil? or the policies that governed it?

2. is closing the place where evil was commited going to do anything to our integrity if the people who allowed the evil to happen in the first place go to the next facility along with the prisoners we move?

3, will the world be satisified if we move our evil actions to another place?

4. who allowed this to happen? was it a matter of policy? or a wide conspiracy by the pentagon without the presidents knoledge?

5. who will be held accountable?

again, when the crap hits the fan, a little dog and ponie show to make everyone look in the wrong direction for the answers. and WE just let it happen again and again. all of US.

90 percent of this country is christian. 90 percent. and we just sit here and accept absolutly evil action to be done in our name and just keep waiving the flag and singing the party line.

evil flourishes when good men do NOTHING. that is what we are doing. NOTHING.

being a christian will not save you from being led down the wrong path by false prophets if you do NOTHING to stop it.

we are better than this. we should demand accountability. we should hold our elected officials holding the microphone 100 percent accountable.

close guantanimo? ***** that. toss the idiots holding the microphone into a cell in guantanimo. for treason against our country by diminishing our integrity and destroying our ability ot lead. for torturing human beings against U.S. laws and international treaties. for killing over 100,000 human beings in an attack against a defenseless country WITHOUT conclusive evidence it was ABSOLUTLY NECESSARY AND A LAST RESORT.

that will help restore our integrity. closing guantanimo will do NOTHING. which is exactly what the good men in this country are doing. NOTHING.

That's how I feel about gangsta rappers. Eventually they'll all kill each other off, but it's taking too damn long.


Godwin'd. Not like this thread was worthwhile in the first place...

well i know what we could do. we could put them all up in 5 star hotels and have them hold hands and sing kum by ******* ya while we cater to their every whim and need.

but wait that will never happen because they are PRISONERS OF WAR and as prisoners of war they should not be treated like 5 star guests in a hotel. they shouldnt be brutally tortured but some mental torture should be completly fine. i heard a news story saying that we were treating them wrong by depriving the prisoners of sleep. that is one great way to get someone to talk and it involves no physical punishment only mental. you have a guy go without sleep for awhile eventually they will talk.

everyone who says we killed a bunch of inocent afgan and irag citizens need to watch the tape of the planes crashing into the twin towers again. everyone seems to have forgotten what happened that sad day in new york. when you watch the tape a few times you need to come back here and say they were all a bunch of inocent people.

i sat next to friends that had parents, brother, sisters, aunts and uncles that died that day. i had to watch as grown men risked their lives by running into the towers to try to save just one more life. i had to watch as my friends cried when they learned that loved ones died while jumping and some from buring at the top of the building. now you want me to feel sorry for a bunch of prisoners and how they are getting treated. no way its just not going to happen

we are in a time of war so that means any prisoner taken is considered a prisoner of war. they are linked together they proved that sadam was funding terrorist organizations by giving them money. that **** was all over the news about 2 years ago. if you dont believe we are in a time of war you need to think again because when i got out of the army after serving my country for 4 years i was allowed full benifits thru the VA because i was a verteran during a war time. according to my military training any prisoner taken during a time of war is considered a prisioner of war.

i know i suck at typing i misspell words all the time. but at least i form them into sentences that make sense in my own mind.

Well... In his defense, the topic is about prisoners in Guantanimo, and IIRC, those prisoners are exclusively Taliban and Al-qeada, so his basic statement is correct. Not sure where or why he added "Iraq" to the "Afghan and Iraq" statement, except perhaps in reference to the fact that we have captured a few Al-qeada operatives in Iraq after the war.

Perhaps it is you being a bit oversensitive on the issue? You're assuming he's claiming the Iraqi government was responsible for 9/11, when he could simply have been meaning that Iraq sheltered some members of Al-qaeda, and so by invading Iraq (in addition to Afghanistan) we were able to capture those people.

I certainly can't be sure that's what he was trying to say, but I'm not reading into his statement any more then you are...

Hah! How many times have I argued exactly this point? That most people assume that anyone imprisoned during a time of war is automatically a "Prisoner of War". See. I'm not imagining things... Ok. Not this time anyway. ;)

Read the 4th Geneva Convention. It's about the treatment of civilians in an occupied territory, and includes treatment of "civilian" prisoners caught attacking the occupying power in some manner. Your assertation that all prisoners taken during a time of war are catagorized as POWs under the Geneva Conventions is absolutely false...

All prisoners, prior to trial, are "alledged" to be <whatever> Nobby. That's kind of a worthless point to make. At some point you have to trust that those in charge of detaining prisoners are doing so based on the best data available to them at the time. If we want to go off on grand conspiracies of detaining people without good cause, why not start with your local police instead?

Fact is that the 4th Geneva Convention specifically allows for detainment of this type in *exactly* the case these people fall into. If people want to argue that the 4th Convention is too vague in this area, or allows too much leeway to the occupying power, then that's a valid argument to make, and I personally would not necessarily disagree with them. It just bugs the hell out of me when instead of doing that, they try vaily to apply a set of legal rules that are *not* the relevant ones in this case.

They're not citizens of the US being held within the US. Thus, the rights commonly invoked by the average joe being pulled over for speeding do *not* apply.

They're not POWs as defined under the 3rd Geneva Convention. Thus, they cannot just give their name, rank, and number, and refuse anything else while insisting on their Red Cross visit.

They *are* being held under the "spys and sabateurs" catagory of the 4th Convention. Thus, they can be interrogated. They can be held without legal counsil. They can be denied access by humanitarian groups like the Red Cross. They can be denied *any* outside contact. Those are all outlined in the Convention and are all "legal" by international agreement.


For those who want to argue about whether or not the treatment of prisoners at Gitmo is "fair" or "legal", you need to at least start by reading the Convention underwhich they are being held. The second you use the word POW, you only display your own ignorance of and lack of qualification to debate the issue.