I agree with Yanari. I never get angry when discussing religion; I leave that to the religious folk. The fact that I don't believe seems to bother most Christians much more than the fact that they do believe bothers me, which is not at all (unless they're trying to justify legislating your morality or otherwise forcing their beliefs on me).
Look at it this way: how many atheists have hunted down witches in the name of no God? I realize Christians have been persecuted, but generally by people who were motivated to retain their own belief structure and/or way of life.
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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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And hats simply make my hair full of static.
Nothin' wrong with hair full of energy. ^^
I like the way Joph put it early in the thread. If you assume that the goal here is "inner strength", you have to realize that it's that strength that matters, not how it got there. There's not metaphical judge who's standing around blowing his whistle if you didn't follow some arbitrary set of rules (and if the teacher in the OP believes that then he's being pretty obviously hypocritical).
If your belief in god allows you to feel stronger and more confident about yourself, it does not matter whether it occured because god made you stronger, or the fact that your belief alone made you stronger.
Look at it another way:
Let's say that god does not exist, but you believe he does. You come across a burning building. There are flames everywhere. Then you realize there is a child crying from an upstairs room. You pray to god to give you strength to face the danger, dash into the building and manage to save the child. Clearly, you succeeded and overcame your fears and the very real physical difficulty and danger of the situation. Since we've decided for the purposes of this example that god does not actually exist, the strength to do that must have actually come from the person, right?
Since we can't determine if god exists or not, then it's irrelevant. If someone's set of beliefs give them strength, then for these purposes they are "real". That's all that matters. It doesn't matter if you believe that god gives you strength, or you believe that your own inner soul/kata/chi/whatever does. Ultimately, it's your own mind that arrives at that state, and that's all that really matters.
If your belief in god allows you to feel stronger and more confident about yourself, it does not matter whether it occured because god made you stronger, or the fact that your belief alone made you stronger.
Look at it another way:
Let's say that god does not exist, but you believe he does. You come across a burning building. There are flames everywhere. Then you realize there is a child crying from an upstairs room. You pray to god to give you strength to face the danger, dash into the building and manage to save the child. Clearly, you succeeded and overcame your fears and the very real physical difficulty and danger of the situation. Since we've decided for the purposes of this example that god does not actually exist, the strength to do that must have actually come from the person, right?
Since we can't determine if god exists or not, then it's irrelevant. If someone's set of beliefs give them strength, then for these purposes they are "real". That's all that matters. It doesn't matter if you believe that god gives you strength, or you believe that your own inner soul/kata/chi/whatever does. Ultimately, it's your own mind that arrives at that state, and that's all that really matters.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
God as placebo.
Well, it's healthier than opiates, I reckon.
Well, it's healthier than opiates, I reckon.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
1 Man with wacky ideas = lunatic
100 Men with wacky ideas = cult
1,000,000 Men with wacky ideas = religion
Seriously, any objective look at religion can only come to the conclusion that it is a form of mental illness.
100 Men with wacky ideas = cult
1,000,000 Men with wacky ideas = religion
Seriously, any objective look at religion can only come to the conclusion that it is a form of mental illness.
Though there is little reason to believe in any particular god, I think a good god to believe in is Thor(since he seems like the sort that could kick ***) or maybe Buddha(cause a relaxed person is always someone to emulate).
But when you get down to it there really is little reason to not bet that there is some god and some afterlife since if the alternative is true than when you die it won't matter anyway(as long as you didn't do stupid crap for some religion like some mass marriage ceremony or offering young boys to priests as a sacrifice).
But when you get down to it there really is little reason to not bet that there is some god and some afterlife since if the alternative is true than when you die it won't matter anyway(as long as you didn't do stupid crap for some religion like some mass marriage ceremony or offering young boys to priests as a sacrifice).
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Though there is little reason to believe in any particular god, I think a good god to believe in is Thor(since he seems like the sort that could kick ***)
Ninja god is totally sweet, and would flip out and kick your god's ***.
Ninja god is also a mammal.
Edited, Thu Feb 3 20:26:42 2005 by trickybeck
How boring would the world be if God suddenly appeared to everything and everybody? Once people realized that there IS more to life than death..well.. I think it would ruin alot of peoples day.
God... Religion.. I dunno man havin a hard time with the concept lately.. Hard to believe any god would allow babies to be murdered... or allow people to kill one another in the name of faith.. especially one with the power to create the earth and so on.
I feel its more likely that we are on our own, with our own inner strengths to guide and motivate us. If people believe in a religion, and that keeps them humming...I can respect that.. To each, his or her own..
These are not "weak minded" folks they are entitled to thier belief. My only problem with these type of people, is often they feel the need to press thier beliefs onto you..or look down on you for not being like minded..
I feel its more likely that we are on our own, with our own inner strengths to guide and motivate us. If people believe in a religion, and that keeps them humming...I can respect that.. To each, his or her own..
These are not "weak minded" folks they are entitled to thier belief. My only problem with these type of people, is often they feel the need to press thier beliefs onto you..or look down on you for not being like minded..
Sir Weebs wrote:
God... Religion.. I dunno man havin a hard time with the concept lately.. Hard to believe any god would allow babies to be murdered... or allow people to kill one another in the name of faith.. especially one with the power to create the earth and so on.
I feel its more likely that we are on our own, with our own inner strengths to guide and motivate us. If people believe in a religion, and that keeps them humming...I can respect that.. To each, his or her own..
These are not "weak minded" folks they are entitled to thier belief. My only problem with these type of people, is often they feel the need to press thier beliefs onto you..or look down on you for not being like minded..
I feel its more likely that we are on our own, with our own inner strengths to guide and motivate us. If people believe in a religion, and that keeps them humming...I can respect that.. To each, his or her own..
These are not "weak minded" folks they are entitled to thier belief. My only problem with these type of people, is often they feel the need to press thier beliefs onto you..or look down on you for not being like minded..
Your comments have offended me deeply and I hope that Mighty Thor will decide its hammer time and get to smashing the truth into you before some valkyries rape your corpse.
Kelvyquayo the Hand wrote:
How boring would the world be if God suddenly appeared to everything and everybody? Once people realized that there IS more to life than death..well.. I think it would ruin alot of peoples day.
Some, not all. I have no problem with the possibility of confronting a just God, in the event that I'm wrong.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Quote:
I have no problem with the possibility of confronting a just God, in the event that I'm wrong.
My point in that was that if it becomes evident that there truly is a such thing as afterlife and unseen forces at work and it was made utterly evident to everyone, alot of values that many hold so dear would suddenly seem trivial and selfish.
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Hard to believe any god would allow babies to be murdered... or allow people to kill one another
The "badness" in death is a Human assumption. Violence is in all of nature. Just look at waht Winter does to Summer.
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I feel its more likely that we are on our own, with our own inner strengths to guide and motivate us.
You don't have to give it a name. But rest assured the force that motivates your mind and animates your meat is the same that pushes up blades of grass and detroys stars.
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God... Religion.. I dunno man havin a hard time with the concept lately.. Hard to believe any god would allow babies to be murdered... or allow people to kill one another in the name of faith.. especially one with the power to create the earth and so on.
Well God could make it easy. Everytime something bad was gonna happen he could appear in a magical cloud and smash the badness with thunderbolts. But then everyone would blindly follow. It would be no more a decision to believe in God than it is not to stick your head into a campfire.
Think of this life as a proving grounds. Everyone has been given the decision to follow God or not. Humans are defined by their ability to think. It's pretty easy to go either way. You can for the most part make it through this life either way. It's a means to seperate the chaff from the wheat.
Most Christians believe that after one dies they will have their actions weighed against their knowledge of God. Those that chose to Honor God will go on to an eternal afterlife with God. Those that did not, will not.
Nicroll 65 Assassin
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Quote:
The "badness" in death is a human assumption. Violence is in all of nature. Just look at waht Winter does to Summer.
Good point I can understand some death... "natural causes" and such. However, since I am human, and not an "omnipotent" being, I cant help feeling that senseless murder, is wrong.
Violence has been part of human history since the first cave dweller picked up the first rock.. That doesnt make it right.
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You don't have to give it a name. But rest assured the force that motivates your mind and animates your meat is the same that pushes up blades of grass and destroys stars.
Well said.. "poetic" even.. But I don't really think photosynthesis, or novas have anything to do with inner strength or positive thinking..
I think when people tap into thier own inner strength, and use it to better themselves and each other.. Its a GOOD thing.. Doesn't matter to me if they call it Gods' power.. or Thors' power.. so long as they dont force it on others. When that happens in enough volume.. well, ya have war.
The only evidence behind religion, ANY religion, is empirical evidence. Each of us learns from our experiences, and each of us formulates our own belief on the way the universe works. We observe life and from that we draw our own conclusions. There is no way to prove or disprove any religion except by dying and finding out what happens next. Yes, I believe some people use religion as a crutch, but I believe (like Joph said) that some people go to great lengths and show incredible personal strength FOR their religion. So it's a two-way street. And just as some people use religion as a crutch, others use athiesm or the sciences as a crutch. The thing is, it's ok to be athiest because that just makes you "realistic". But Bob forbid we should believe that there's more to the universe than matter and energy, that's uncool. So, religious people are usually looked down upon by most others.
Me, I dunno what I believe. Rather, I know what I believe but it doesn't align itself to any religion I know of. I do believe in something though, and I don't believe in it to draw strength from it. I believe it because I can't believe anything else. No other option makes sense to me or seems to mesh with the experiences I've had in my life. I'm not ashamed of not being athiest, either.
Religion is fine and it's healthy... it's the misuse of religion that isn't ok. Blah, I'm not being very clear but I can't be any clearer, so hopefully that makes sense to someone here.
Me, I dunno what I believe. Rather, I know what I believe but it doesn't align itself to any religion I know of. I do believe in something though, and I don't believe in it to draw strength from it. I believe it because I can't believe anything else. No other option makes sense to me or seems to mesh with the experiences I've had in my life. I'm not ashamed of not being athiest, either.
Religion is fine and it's healthy... it's the misuse of religion that isn't ok. Blah, I'm not being very clear but I can't be any clearer, so hopefully that makes sense to someone here.
Quote:
The only evidence behind religion, ANY religion, is empirical evidence. Each of us learns from our experiences, and each of us formulates our own belief on the way the universe works. We observe life and from that we draw our own conclusions. There is no way to prove or disprove any religion except by dying and finding out what happens next. Yes, I believe some people use religion as a crutch, but I believe (like Joph said) that some people go to great lengths and show incredible personal strength FOR their religion. So it's a two-way street. And just as some people use religion as a crutch, others use athiesm or the sciences as a crutch. The thing is, it's ok to be athiest because that just makes you "realistic". But Bob forbid we should believe that there's more to the universe than matter and energy, that's uncool. So, religious people are usually looked down upon by most others.
Me, I dunno what I believe. Rather, I know what I believe but it doesn't align itself to any religion I know of. I do believe in something though, and I don't believe in it to draw strength from it. I believe it because I can't believe anything else. No other option makes sense to me or seems to mesh with the experiences I've had in my life. I'm not ashamed of not being athiest, either.
Religion is fine and it's healthy... it's the misuse of religion that isn't ok. Blah, I'm not being very clear but I can't be any clearer, so hopefully that makes sense to someone here.
Me, I dunno what I believe. Rather, I know what I believe but it doesn't align itself to any religion I know of. I do believe in something though, and I don't believe in it to draw strength from it. I believe it because I can't believe anything else. No other option makes sense to me or seems to mesh with the experiences I've had in my life. I'm not ashamed of not being athiest, either.
Religion is fine and it's healthy... it's the misuse of religion that isn't ok. Blah, I'm not being very clear but I can't be any clearer, so hopefully that makes sense to someone here.
I understand exactly what you're saying. I think most here will, as well.
Kelvyquayo the ham wrote:
You don't have to give it a name. But rest assured the force that motivates your mind and animates your meat is the same that pushes up blades of grass and detroys stars.
This parallels my argument, and makes it a +1 IMO. You just communicate better.
42 posts
Religion for the weak-minded? Nope. Really, I wonder why aethesist are so set on disproving religion. It's here to stay alright? Is it so hard to believe that your lives ARE in your hands, but your actions WILL be judged? People fear what they cannot understand, and it's hard to understand religion(and God).
I can understand people trying to disprove religion in fear, who wants to believe that they might possibly have to deal with torture for all of enternity? It's scary I know, and because of that a lot of people think Christianity, and Catholicism, is based on fear. But any Christian would tell you thats it's about hope.
As for other religions, I can't say, I'll just say that everyone has something to believe in, whether it's yourself, God or some unknown force, without a name. At it's very base, religion is an explanation for our exsistance, I mean..who wants to wonder about their exsistance? It's hard..and it makes people's head hurt.
For the aethist, consider this. When man first began to ponder their exsistance, and they DIDN'T have teloscopes and all this techonology, how else were they to explain their exsistance? They created religion and gave themselves a purpose, and as for death, it's more or less the same. Know one knows what happens when you die(besides the rotting part, even Christians agree to that part), it's a great unknown that we HAD to explain for ourselves.
I don't think religion is for the weak-minded, being able to think about things that aren't physical is what makes us human, in a way. Our imagination distinguishes us from animals, and to those that believe God isn't real, just think of it as..a part of being human. We "created" God through our imaginations.
...Oh, and if my post sounds contradictive, it's only because I'm trying to think like an Aetheist(which is kind of hard).
I can understand people trying to disprove religion in fear, who wants to believe that they might possibly have to deal with torture for all of enternity? It's scary I know, and because of that a lot of people think Christianity, and Catholicism, is based on fear. But any Christian would tell you thats it's about hope.
As for other religions, I can't say, I'll just say that everyone has something to believe in, whether it's yourself, God or some unknown force, without a name. At it's very base, religion is an explanation for our exsistance, I mean..who wants to wonder about their exsistance? It's hard..and it makes people's head hurt.
For the aethist, consider this. When man first began to ponder their exsistance, and they DIDN'T have teloscopes and all this techonology, how else were they to explain their exsistance? They created religion and gave themselves a purpose, and as for death, it's more or less the same. Know one knows what happens when you die(besides the rotting part, even Christians agree to that part), it's a great unknown that we HAD to explain for ourselves.
I don't think religion is for the weak-minded, being able to think about things that aren't physical is what makes us human, in a way. Our imagination distinguishes us from animals, and to those that believe God isn't real, just think of it as..a part of being human. We "created" God through our imaginations.
...Oh, and if my post sounds contradictive, it's only because I'm trying to think like an Aetheist(which is kind of hard).
A lot of people hate their lives and it really helps them to think that there is a greater purpose.
Oh great!!! A God thread!!! Now all the people with differing beliefs can share their views and enrich each other's perspectives! Why didn't anyone think of this sooner?
People can, will, and have argued religion till they are blue in the face.
Face it, it's pointless.
There is no real way to prove any religion is real. They are all crutches.
But why should anyone really give a ****? If it makes your day to day life better, great.
Just don't be like those goddamned zealots and bring it to my doorstep, or keep it there when i tell your *** to leave.
Face it, it's pointless.
There is no real way to prove any religion is real. They are all crutches.
But why should anyone really give a ****? If it makes your day to day life better, great.
Just don't be like those goddamned zealots and bring it to my doorstep, or keep it there when i tell your *** to leave.
The wise say: If there wasn't a God, it would be necessary to invent him.
All I have to say on the subject, not being in the wise crew, is that the human body is one complicated bit of refined genius, and if we were just an accident created with a lightning bolt and a tadpole....how come people today still don't climb outta the canal in my backyard?
All I have to say on the subject, not being in the wise crew, is that the human body is one complicated bit of refined genius, and if we were just an accident created with a lightning bolt and a tadpole....how come people today still don't climb outta the canal in my backyard?
TheDave wrote:
I'm more of an agnostic really, I don't know exactly how I feel about the whole God issue. I've never been touched by God or seen anything to sway me either way but i'm keeping my options open just in case Jesus decides to pop back for another spin.
Agnostic eh? Agnosticism is for the weak minded. You're too much of a coward to go to Hell for not believing in a higher power, and you're too scared to look like a dumbass for believing in something that doesn't exist.
I bet you're thinking with accepting both you have a 100% chance of being right, but actually you just have a 100% chance of being wrong. Idiot.
Edited, Sun Feb 6 01:40:41 2005 by Nabraben
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Vensuvio
its hammer time
its hammer time
If that isn't the official motto of Thor, it should be
Quote:
NfamousC
People fear what they cannot understand
People fear what they cannot understand
I fear your post. All of humanity fears your post.
Quote:
xythex
Think of this life as a proving grounds. Everyone has been given the decision to follow God or not. Humans are defined by their ability to think. It's pretty easy to go either way. You can for the most part make it through this life either way. It's a means to seperate the chaff from the wheat.
Most Christians believe that after one dies they will have their actions weighed against their knowledge of God. Those that chose to Honor God will go on to an eternal afterlife with God. Those that did not, will not.
why would that be necessary? wouldn't an omniscient God know which way we'd go in the end anyway?
Edited, Sun Feb 6 04:25:16 2005 by Taber
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