As i understand you cannot serve in the military if you are openly gay. it seems to me that it could be a damn easy way to get out of being sent to get my balls blown off while killing iraqi's for dubya.
my question is... do any of you know of anyone who tried this during vietnam (or even WWII)? did it work? was the social stigma of being gay too strong for anyone straight to try it?
while it is *hopefully* a slim possibility, were the draft to ever be reinstated i would do everything within my power to avoid it, especially if it is as easy as saying "i like the hole *and* the pole".
im sure some of the more conservative members will blast me for having no intention of fufilling my civic duty, but im not going to war because some a[b][/b]sshole i wasnt even able to elect decided he'd rather kill things than try to work things out in a more diplomatic fashion.
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As Trickybeck has already pointed out, there are other options out there than just saying that you like other boys.
The easiest way to fail is to simply say you dropped acid. The only way to check is to perform a spinal tap, and they are illegal in most states.
15 posts
I seriously doubt you have anything to worry about, Hippo.
The Armed Forces are currently "all volunteer" and all branches are quite proud of this. Additionally, all the services are terrified of the drop in quality of recruit if a draft were reinstated. Currently, all recruits maintain that they wish to be in the service, at least until reality sets in. Most, if not all, who vehemently state they don't want to be there, are consequently released to go home(with paid air and bus fair) and suck on mama's tit some more. As an added bonus, these "entry-level" seperations from the military are not held against them, except that they "might" be denied financial aid, but I've yet to hear of a case of that. Usually, the worst thing to come out of this type of seperation is that should they ever find their genitals, there is a mandatory 2-year wait, and depending on the case, additional documentation required before they re-apply for the military.
In some strange shift of political winds, should the draft ever be re-instated, there would be the afore-mentioned ways of getting out of a draft in itself. Additionally, the military retains the priviledge of "chapter" actions against people not fit for military service, and regularly uses them on people who claim they wish to be in the military. More people are kicked out of the military for innocuous things than you'd believe with the "stupid" stigma attached to the military. For example, failure to maintain financial responsility (not paying your friggin bills) is grounds for being dismissed from the military. So, a revolutionary wanna-be would probably be kicked out before basic training was over with, albeit, he'd prolly get the **** kicked out of him by other recruits before his paperwork was done.
The Armed Forces are currently "all volunteer" and all branches are quite proud of this. Additionally, all the services are terrified of the drop in quality of recruit if a draft were reinstated. Currently, all recruits maintain that they wish to be in the service, at least until reality sets in. Most, if not all, who vehemently state they don't want to be there, are consequently released to go home(with paid air and bus fair) and suck on mama's tit some more. As an added bonus, these "entry-level" seperations from the military are not held against them, except that they "might" be denied financial aid, but I've yet to hear of a case of that. Usually, the worst thing to come out of this type of seperation is that should they ever find their genitals, there is a mandatory 2-year wait, and depending on the case, additional documentation required before they re-apply for the military.
In some strange shift of political winds, should the draft ever be re-instated, there would be the afore-mentioned ways of getting out of a draft in itself. Additionally, the military retains the priviledge of "chapter" actions against people not fit for military service, and regularly uses them on people who claim they wish to be in the military. More people are kicked out of the military for innocuous things than you'd believe with the "stupid" stigma attached to the military. For example, failure to maintain financial responsility (not paying your friggin bills) is grounds for being dismissed from the military. So, a revolutionary wanna-be would probably be kicked out before basic training was over with, albeit, he'd prolly get the **** kicked out of him by other recruits before his paperwork was done.
15 posts
Au contraire, mon ami(I felt a bit pacifist, hence the french). Simple prior drug use would not excuse one from a draft, and even if it were, the age-old myth that it takes a spinal-tap to detect it is false, too.
Prior drug use is currently not a reason to deny a VOLUNTEER applicant from the military, so should they ever reinstate the draft, I doubt it would be a disqualifier. A positive urinalysis taken at the Entry Station for Cocaine or THC are(That's all they test for). Prior admitted drug use would only preclude an applicant from certain security-clearance required jobs and entail additional paperwork. Also, should you be a postive for cocaine, that would only entail additional paperwork and an additional 6-month wait. Same with THC, but only a 3-month wait. Last I checked anyway.
The myth that acid can only be detected with a spinal tap is just that. A myth. The military doesn't use the same equipment that your average parole officer uses. Litmus strips just don't cut it. The military uses a Mass Spectrometer, which can detect everything except steroids. Hippo is too lazy to use steroids, it's associated with working out, so that's out of the question. The military typically checks for THC and Cocaine derivitaves, plus several "flavors of the month," such as Ectasy. They don't test each sample for every drug, unless the specimen provider is a "probable cause" case. (I bet you hate that term, Hippo.) In that case, their urine is given a full battery of tests.
BTW, just so you know, Hippo, probable cause is SO EASY in the military. Probable cause usually only requires a sworn statement (military version of an affadavit) from one (1) reputable individual.
Prior drug use is currently not a reason to deny a VOLUNTEER applicant from the military, so should they ever reinstate the draft, I doubt it would be a disqualifier. A positive urinalysis taken at the Entry Station for Cocaine or THC are(That's all they test for). Prior admitted drug use would only preclude an applicant from certain security-clearance required jobs and entail additional paperwork. Also, should you be a postive for cocaine, that would only entail additional paperwork and an additional 6-month wait. Same with THC, but only a 3-month wait. Last I checked anyway.
The myth that acid can only be detected with a spinal tap is just that. A myth. The military doesn't use the same equipment that your average parole officer uses. Litmus strips just don't cut it. The military uses a Mass Spectrometer, which can detect everything except steroids. Hippo is too lazy to use steroids, it's associated with working out, so that's out of the question. The military typically checks for THC and Cocaine derivitaves, plus several "flavors of the month," such as Ectasy. They don't test each sample for every drug, unless the specimen provider is a "probable cause" case. (I bet you hate that term, Hippo.) In that case, their urine is given a full battery of tests.
BTW, just so you know, Hippo, probable cause is SO EASY in the military. Probable cause usually only requires a sworn statement (military version of an affadavit) from one (1) reputable individual.
The problem is though, even the military is starting to admit that it is stretched thin. And now with wind of possible military action on Iraq looming its ugly head once again, a draft may be a possiblity once again. Granted, it would be rare for a conservative party to issue a draft (they tend to be a more liberal means of getting recruits... in recent history only democrats have used drafts), but not unheard of.
jumpr wrote:
Au contraire, mon ami(I felt a bit pacifist, hence the french). Simple prior drug use would not excuse one from a draft, and even if it were, the age-old myth that it takes a spinal-tap to detect it is false, too.
Prior drug use is currently not a reason to deny a VOLUNTEER applicant from the military, so should they ever reinstate the draft, I doubt it would be a disqualifier. A positive urinalysis taken at the Entry Station for Cocaine or THC are(That's all they test for). Prior admitted drug use would only preclude an applicant from certain security-clearance required jobs and entail additional paperwork. Also, should you be a postive for cocaine, that would only entail additional paperwork and an additional 6-month wait. Same with THC, but only a 3-month wait. Last I checked anyway.
The myth that acid can only be detected with a spinal tap is just that. A myth. The military doesn't use the same equipment that your average parole officer uses. Litmus strips just don't cut it. The military uses a Mass Spectrometer, which can detect everything except steroids. Hippo is too lazy to use steroids, it's associated with working out, so that's out of the question. The military typically checks for THC and Cocaine derivitaves, plus several "flavors of the month," such as Ectasy. They don't test each sample for every drug, unless the specimen provider is a "probable cause" case. (I bet you hate that term, Hippo.) In that case, their urine is given a full battery of tests.
BTW, just so you know, Hippo, probable cause is SO EASY in the military. Probable cause usually only requires a sworn statement (military version of an affadavit) from one (1) reputable individual.
Prior drug use is currently not a reason to deny a VOLUNTEER applicant from the military, so should they ever reinstate the draft, I doubt it would be a disqualifier. A positive urinalysis taken at the Entry Station for Cocaine or THC are(That's all they test for). Prior admitted drug use would only preclude an applicant from certain security-clearance required jobs and entail additional paperwork. Also, should you be a postive for cocaine, that would only entail additional paperwork and an additional 6-month wait. Same with THC, but only a 3-month wait. Last I checked anyway.
The myth that acid can only be detected with a spinal tap is just that. A myth. The military doesn't use the same equipment that your average parole officer uses. Litmus strips just don't cut it. The military uses a Mass Spectrometer, which can detect everything except steroids. Hippo is too lazy to use steroids, it's associated with working out, so that's out of the question. The military typically checks for THC and Cocaine derivitaves, plus several "flavors of the month," such as Ectasy. They don't test each sample for every drug, unless the specimen provider is a "probable cause" case. (I bet you hate that term, Hippo.) In that case, their urine is given a full battery of tests.
BTW, just so you know, Hippo, probable cause is SO EASY in the military. Probable cause usually only requires a sworn statement (military version of an affadavit) from one (1) reputable individual.
Except for the fact that a drug such as acid can only be detected in the human urine stream for about 8 hours. MDMA (ecstasy) leaves the urine stream in about 6 hours. It doesn't matter how good of a urinalysis you use if the metabolites from a drug's usage no longer exist in the urine. They don't detect the drug, they detect the byproducts of a drug's usage.
The other possible route for the military would be to use folicle testing, except it's A) expensive, B) time consuming, and C) only works so long as they haven't cut their hair recently (they used the drug, gave their hair time to grow out while abstaining from drug usage, then had it cut).
Here's a link with more information:
http://www.alwaystestclean.com/how_long.htm
The reason why acid precluded a person for active duty was due to the fact that the more frequent the usage of the drug, the more likely the user was to experience a flashback. Imagine a soldier who had dropped acid was in the middle of combat, and suddenly all of his squad buddies started turning into angry giant squid. See how it could be a liability that the military wouldn't want to contend with?
Flashbacks do occur. If you don't believe that, ask anyone who's done it a lot. There is even a specific term for it: Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder.
It is not a myth, it's science.
Edited, Wed Jan 26 02:54:28 2005 by scubamage
15 posts
LOL. NFW. You cited a commercial "clean your pee pee" site as an authority? That's like quoting a used car salesman as an authority on broken down Nissans.
Also, they didn't list the means of testing. Like I said, impregnated litmus paper just doesn't cut it in some circles. Believe it or not, the military does NOT accept the hair follicle test in miltary court.
The times quoted for a drug to clear your system seem to be for another test, or best case scenarios when utilizing their "product." They don't list nanograms per mililiter that the test tests for, therefore, making me think it's a positive/negative litmus strip....which I previously stated doesn't cut it for the military. Testing information according to the military can be found at www.acsap.org, along with several other military posts' home pages.
As far as disqualifications, I'm quoting Army Regulation 601-210, which deals specifically with people joining the Army and Army Reserve, and no where does it state that LSD usage is a finite disqualifier. Granted, ANY admitted drug use does require an interview with an MD, and could result in disqualification, but simple usage IS NOT a blanket disqualifier. From your earlier post, you insinuated a single use of acid, not repeated abuse. Chronic abuse of many drugs seem to be a disqualifier in my experience, however, I've never been privy to the interviewing doctor's notes. Practically all the Army and Army Reserve regulations can be found in .pdf format these days.
Also, they didn't list the means of testing. Like I said, impregnated litmus paper just doesn't cut it in some circles. Believe it or not, the military does NOT accept the hair follicle test in miltary court.
The times quoted for a drug to clear your system seem to be for another test, or best case scenarios when utilizing their "product." They don't list nanograms per mililiter that the test tests for, therefore, making me think it's a positive/negative litmus strip....which I previously stated doesn't cut it for the military. Testing information according to the military can be found at www.acsap.org, along with several other military posts' home pages.
As far as disqualifications, I'm quoting Army Regulation 601-210, which deals specifically with people joining the Army and Army Reserve, and no where does it state that LSD usage is a finite disqualifier. Granted, ANY admitted drug use does require an interview with an MD, and could result in disqualification, but simple usage IS NOT a blanket disqualifier. From your earlier post, you insinuated a single use of acid, not repeated abuse. Chronic abuse of many drugs seem to be a disqualifier in my experience, however, I've never been privy to the interviewing doctor's notes. Practically all the Army and Army Reserve regulations can be found in .pdf format these days.
I couldnt imagine dodging the draft if it were to be reinstated.. I just dont think I could live with myself.. Not that I could really blame anyone for doing it.. But these would certainly not be the type of people I would surround myself with..
My experience in warfare is limited to bouncin a few heads off a bar.. and of course now.. I am an old fart.. But I would go.. Teach me how to shoot the thing, and train me right.. maybe one less "kid" goes home in a box..
My experience in warfare is limited to bouncin a few heads off a bar.. and of course now.. I am an old fart.. But I would go.. Teach me how to shoot the thing, and train me right.. maybe one less "kid" goes home in a box..
doesn't a felony conviction also disqualify you from draft?
There was a guy that I went to boot camp with that was kicked out for pissing the bed. I don't know if he did it on purpose or not, but it worked for him.
A friend of mine touted this as a way to get out, I can't verify its truth.
There's a point during the ceremony that requires you to step forward. When you do, you're officially part of the military. However, before you step, you are not. Just don't take the step. They can't make you, they have no authority over you because technically you aren't part of the military yet and aren't subjectable to military prosecution. I have no idea what the civilian consequences for this would be, as you're required to report for duty but not necessarily required to go on duty. Reporting might be fulfilling the law...
Grady
There's a point during the ceremony that requires you to step forward. When you do, you're officially part of the military. However, before you step, you are not. Just don't take the step. They can't make you, they have no authority over you because technically you aren't part of the military yet and aren't subjectable to military prosecution. I have no idea what the civilian consequences for this would be, as you're required to report for duty but not necessarily required to go on duty. Reporting might be fulfilling the law...
Grady
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix, angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machin ery of night.
LSD is NEVER dectable for more than 1-4 days by a standard drug test and during the duration for a bloodtest.
LSD DOES NOT STAY IN YOUR SPINE, BRAIN, OR ANYTHING ELSE. once you use it after two days or so it is gone without a trace. no one has *any* way of determining that you have done it.
edit: it is generally accepted in the medical community that flashbacks are a completely psychological thing having nothing to do with the presence of any drug.
Edited, Wed Jan 26 09:02:10 2005 by Angry Hippo
LSD DOES NOT STAY IN YOUR SPINE, BRAIN, OR ANYTHING ELSE. once you use it after two days or so it is gone without a trace. no one has *any* way of determining that you have done it.
edit: it is generally accepted in the medical community that flashbacks are a completely psychological thing having nothing to do with the presence of any drug.
Edited, Wed Jan 26 09:02:10 2005 by Angry Hippo
dont get me wrong, if the USA was ever under attack by any credible threat i not only would not dodge the draft, but i'd most likely sign up.
i am aware of different ways you can get out, im just wondering if anyone knew anyone who got out simply by saying they are a ****. it sounds alot easier than any of the other options and presumably it is a sure fire bet.
i am aware of different ways you can get out, im just wondering if anyone knew anyone who got out simply by saying they are a ****. it sounds alot easier than any of the other options and presumably it is a sure fire bet.
It sounds alot easier until they ask you to prove it. That's when you seperate the men from the .... er, well... I don't guess you would seperate them.
If life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Then find someone that life has given vodka and have party.
This establishment does not serve women. You must bring your own.
This establishment does not serve women. You must bring your own.
Quote:
It sounds alot easier until they ask you to prove it. That's when you seperate the men from the .... er, well... I don't guess you would seperate them.
LMAO, thank you for that. I laughed so hard I woke my husband up. Good luck and blessings, Prana
If all the kids out there are like hippo, no ******* wonder the country is going down the tubes. Here's a sugguestion on how to advoid the draft......ever think about killing your self? Works every time!
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
Quote:
while it is *hopefully* a slim possibility, were the draft to ever be reinstated i would do everything within my power to avoid it, especially if it is as easy as saying "i like the hole *and* the pole".
HeresJohnny got to it before I could, but I'd find it endlessly amusing if the draft officer (or whoever you would go to) wanted you to prove it. Of course, he'd probably do the proving, so it's a bit of a gray issue...
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
There's no danger of a draft any time soon. The pubbies are pretty much in charge these days and they've traditionally been opposed to the draft.
Their take on it seems to be a combination of 'We don't want anyone in the military that isn't 100% ready to fight for our cause' & 'Let the trailer park boys who think the military is a good career go do the dying; I've got a congress seat lined up for MY son.'
Their take on it seems to be a combination of 'We don't want anyone in the military that isn't 100% ready to fight for our cause' & 'Let the trailer park boys who think the military is a good career go do the dying; I've got a congress seat lined up for MY son.'
Scholar
28 posts
I was drafted in '68, and a guy at the induction center simply refused to let the army doctors give him any shots, claiming he would only allow his personal doctor to treat him. Out he went.
And, most LSD is cut with strychnine to intensify the hallucinations. Strychnine does not leave the body, it just builds up over time so they can test for that presence.
And, most LSD is cut with strychnine to intensify the hallucinations. Strychnine does not leave the body, it just builds up over time so they can test for that presence.
I do not think you have to worry anytime soon about a draft. If we did reinstate the draft the criteria for avoidance would be significantly different. I do not think that college, drug use, or homosexuality would be grounds. In the past even CO had to serve in a non combat capacity, and so would homosexual draftees.
College exemptions made the draft an economic game, and I do not think the congress will allow that again. As for drug use, my impression is that you will detox in boot camp whether you want to or not, and repeated drug use would find you in a military jail.
Sounds like the only real loophole would be an illness, or a disability. Just a few tidbits that my brothers and fiance have shared with me.
You might try to qualify as mentally unbalanced, Hippo!
College exemptions made the draft an economic game, and I do not think the congress will allow that again. As for drug use, my impression is that you will detox in boot camp whether you want to or not, and repeated drug use would find you in a military jail.
Sounds like the only real loophole would be an illness, or a disability. Just a few tidbits that my brothers and fiance have shared with me.
You might try to qualify as mentally unbalanced, Hippo!
I wouldn't stress about a draft AH. The only way a draft will even be on the table is if the Democrats win the house, the senate and the presidency in 2008. Then it might happen. Despite rhetoric to the contrary, Republicans are intensly opposed to the draft, while Dems generally support it (because it's "fair", right?). But you probably didn't know that either...
As to getting out by claiming homosexuality. I do know a guy who was in during the Viet Nam era (he chose to volunteer rather then wait for the draft, and considering where he came from I don't blame him). He said that a couple guys tried that, but it didn't fly. They just got a written up and disciplined. Then they were reminded that if they did insist on claiming homosexuality that would entail a stay in the stockade and a dishonorable discharge.
I'd like to point out that despite Clinton's big hurrah about "don't ask, don't tell", the policy has more or less been unofficially around for ages. No one really cared whether these guys actually were homosexual or not (not officially anyway), but if they insisted on claiming they were then they'd be "punished" and eventually drummed out.
They decided against pretending to be homosexual, but it certainly was an option.
As to getting out by claiming homosexuality. I do know a guy who was in during the Viet Nam era (he chose to volunteer rather then wait for the draft, and considering where he came from I don't blame him). He said that a couple guys tried that, but it didn't fly. They just got a written up and disciplined. Then they were reminded that if they did insist on claiming homosexuality that would entail a stay in the stockade and a dishonorable discharge.
I'd like to point out that despite Clinton's big hurrah about "don't ask, don't tell", the policy has more or less been unofficially around for ages. No one really cared whether these guys actually were homosexual or not (not officially anyway), but if they insisted on claiming they were then they'd be "punished" and eventually drummed out.
They decided against pretending to be homosexual, but it certainly was an option.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
There's always the option one of my cousins took. He drank himself out of the Navy. He got tossed out of the Nuclear Science program after getting in a bar fight and not telling anyone he got busted and had to go to court (bright, huh?) He got sent into their program for alcoholics, came out, went and told his CO he got drunk the night he finished the program, and they cut him loose just like that. Guys who don't want to be in the military are way more trouble than they're worth. It's just easier to not have them around.
oh, im not particularly worried, im just curious if it *would* work.
"And, most LSD is cut with strychnine to intensify the hallucinations. Strychnine does not leave the body, it just builds up over time so they can test for that presence."
this is complete and utter crap. very few substances are active in doses small enough to fit on a piece of blotter paper. strychnine is LSD is a myth. while there i cant say no one has ever done it, i can say that it is INCREDIBLY rare and even if you collected a million hits the chances of it being laced with strychnine is probably none.
you cant really cut LSD with anything. LSD is cheap as hell already. if you buy lsd is it either LSD or it is plain paper. anything else just wont be active in doses small enough to fit on blotter.
oh yeah, and i hope you rot in hell for spreading blatantly false information.
http://www.erowid.org for all your drug related info.
"And, most LSD is cut with strychnine to intensify the hallucinations. Strychnine does not leave the body, it just builds up over time so they can test for that presence."
this is complete and utter crap. very few substances are active in doses small enough to fit on a piece of blotter paper. strychnine is LSD is a myth. while there i cant say no one has ever done it, i can say that it is INCREDIBLY rare and even if you collected a million hits the chances of it being laced with strychnine is probably none.
you cant really cut LSD with anything. LSD is cheap as hell already. if you buy lsd is it either LSD or it is plain paper. anything else just wont be active in doses small enough to fit on blotter.
oh yeah, and i hope you rot in hell for spreading blatantly false information.
http://www.erowid.org for all your drug related info.
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