This isn't entirely on the subject of the OP, but its certainly relevent to the immortality argument the OP spawned.
People need to embrace death. Knowing that your time here is limited and you, as a human, mortal creature, are subject to accidents, illness, disease and eventual non-existence should compell you to live life to the fullest while you have the chance.
I mean, imagine the procrastination and eventual complacency that would abound if people really thought they would live forever! You would have no sense of urgency, no sense of compulsion, and no sense of "living in the moment".
Personally, Western Science and its obsession with defeating death sickens me. Cloning is just another attempt to defy the natural order of things really. I don't want to endorse human suffering per se, but really, disease and illness is an important part of life. It culls the weak, keeps the gene pool clear and clean and generally, as I addressed earlier, makes us appreciate the life we DO have.
Sorry about the rant, but damnit, there are way too many people and most of them drive me nuts. Anything that keeps them alive LONGER just pisses me off.
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Normally I would not be in favor of blindly following a belief without logical study and meditation on the issue. But there are certain things that deep down most people just feel are wrong. Like say for instance, sex with a toddler or eating your own excrement. Even if you could prove to me conclusively that sex with toddlers would be beneficial to them or that eating my own poo would make me live longer I still would not do it. Some things are just wrong.
I sort of feel that way about cloning. I have no problem with stem cell research because stem cells can be taken from a fertilized egg, not a human being. While it can be argued that stem cells in the most basic way are alive, they are not human nor do they have awareness or personality or memories and they can be obtained in a nature friendly renewable resource fairly easily without doing harm to anyone including the donor. I also have no issue with the cloning of skin or specific organs. If it were possible to clone just a heart for instance then that would be fine. My issue would be if you would have to clone a child and then harvest the organs.
My big issue is not spiritual (I think cloned babies would have a soul just like babies born any other way). My issue is with human rights and the effect cloning would have on the planet, or more specifically the human existance. For one thing as has been pointed ou there are more than enough people on the planet as it is. There is a finite number of jobs, homes, plots of land etc and introducing clones would only make those numbers dwindled even further. Likewise the tole on the planets resources would increase as would pollution and these things are major concerns now.
Then there is the value of human life. As with all things the more of something there is the less it is valued. If diamonds were everywhere would you pay thousands for a diamond ring? The same goes for humans. A couple hundred years ago if someone in your town was murdered it was a big deal. Now if I hear someone has died in my neighborhood on the news I think "Just one?". Humanity has a history of slavory and servitude. What would stop us from creating a dumbed down slave race to do all the menial work? You might say that could never happen in America (although if you read your history books...) but not all countries are so ethical.
There are lots of other questions to answer. For instance, who would raise cloned children? Who 'owns' them so to speak, n so much as who has legal rights over them. For instance if my mother decided to clone me and I did not want to be cloned could she do it anyway? If she did clone me would I have legal rights over my duplicate or would she? If she were genteically identical to me wouldn't that create problems when testing for dna evidense in a crime? Then of course there would be people who would be prejudiced against the clones. Stalk them, harass them, not give them jobs. Gay bashing would be passe, long live clone bashing! What if my child died and I wanted to clone them but my husband didn't? Technically the child is half his so could he stop me?
Plus everything I've read about cloning reads like a horror novel. Most clones come out horrible disfigured or sick and don't live long. Would it be ethical to create and kill 100 clones of my child to get one 'good' one. And if they don't die who will be responsible for taking care of the 'rejects'. The fact is there is already a perfectly good way of procreating, we can save peoples lives with stem cells without cloning an actual human/animal, clones would be treated as inferior and the planet can barely sustain the people we already have. Unless someone can give me a very very good reason for cloning I am against it. Good luck and blessings, Prana
I sort of feel that way about cloning. I have no problem with stem cell research because stem cells can be taken from a fertilized egg, not a human being. While it can be argued that stem cells in the most basic way are alive, they are not human nor do they have awareness or personality or memories and they can be obtained in a nature friendly renewable resource fairly easily without doing harm to anyone including the donor. I also have no issue with the cloning of skin or specific organs. If it were possible to clone just a heart for instance then that would be fine. My issue would be if you would have to clone a child and then harvest the organs.
My big issue is not spiritual (I think cloned babies would have a soul just like babies born any other way). My issue is with human rights and the effect cloning would have on the planet, or more specifically the human existance. For one thing as has been pointed ou there are more than enough people on the planet as it is. There is a finite number of jobs, homes, plots of land etc and introducing clones would only make those numbers dwindled even further. Likewise the tole on the planets resources would increase as would pollution and these things are major concerns now.
Then there is the value of human life. As with all things the more of something there is the less it is valued. If diamonds were everywhere would you pay thousands for a diamond ring? The same goes for humans. A couple hundred years ago if someone in your town was murdered it was a big deal. Now if I hear someone has died in my neighborhood on the news I think "Just one?". Humanity has a history of slavory and servitude. What would stop us from creating a dumbed down slave race to do all the menial work? You might say that could never happen in America (although if you read your history books...) but not all countries are so ethical.
There are lots of other questions to answer. For instance, who would raise cloned children? Who 'owns' them so to speak, n so much as who has legal rights over them. For instance if my mother decided to clone me and I did not want to be cloned could she do it anyway? If she did clone me would I have legal rights over my duplicate or would she? If she were genteically identical to me wouldn't that create problems when testing for dna evidense in a crime? Then of course there would be people who would be prejudiced against the clones. Stalk them, harass them, not give them jobs. Gay bashing would be passe, long live clone bashing! What if my child died and I wanted to clone them but my husband didn't? Technically the child is half his so could he stop me?
Plus everything I've read about cloning reads like a horror novel. Most clones come out horrible disfigured or sick and don't live long. Would it be ethical to create and kill 100 clones of my child to get one 'good' one. And if they don't die who will be responsible for taking care of the 'rejects'. The fact is there is already a perfectly good way of procreating, we can save peoples lives with stem cells without cloning an actual human/animal, clones would be treated as inferior and the planet can barely sustain the people we already have. Unless someone can give me a very very good reason for cloning I am against it. Good luck and blessings, Prana
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Sorry about the rant, but damnit, there are way too many people and most of them drive me nuts. Anything that keeps them alive LONGER just pisses me off.
Thats all fine and good until you are the one diagnosed with the terminal disease and are next up for culling. One begins to learn in life that all of the stupid people around oneself, are not really all that different. You are unique, just like everybody else.
Edited, Wed Jan 26 12:51:29 2005 by xythex
Nicroll 65 Assassin
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Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
Teltorid 52 Druid
Aude Sapere
Oh hell camp me all you want f**kers. I own this site and thus I own you. - Allakhazam
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For instance, who would raise cloned children?
Their farmers, duh!
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Score: Decent [2.52]
Rate downs give me a ******* huge erection.
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Score: Decent [2.66]
/nod.
Oh well, to be an ***, rate up for everyone here then who got rated down
We shouldn't get cloning confused with stem cell research, 2 totally different things. It's stem cell research that has the possibility of growing whole new organs, basically in a lab dish. They wouldn't ever clone a person just to harvest thier organs; that is a truly disgusting thought.
There are huge ethical questions around cloning but western countries have ethical committees that advise their governments on issues like IVF and surrogacies.
A human being will be cloned eventually, it's just a matter of time. Probably most countries will just ban it outright but I could see it as just another tool for the IVF process, once they iron out all the problems.
It turned my stomach to see that news item about the woman who paid $16,000 to have her cat cloned though. What pathetic self-indulgence when so many cats are destroyed every day.
There are huge ethical questions around cloning but western countries have ethical committees that advise their governments on issues like IVF and surrogacies.
A human being will be cloned eventually, it's just a matter of time. Probably most countries will just ban it outright but I could see it as just another tool for the IVF process, once they iron out all the problems.
It turned my stomach to see that news item about the woman who paid $16,000 to have her cat cloned though. What pathetic self-indulgence when so many cats are destroyed every day.
teehee. Someone didnt like me being an *** for rating people up. I guess someone felt left out.
I personally think itis stupid to clone however there are scientists and such who feel like they have to break barriers. Probably to be thought of as "gods" in thier own wierd way.
I could not and would not want a child cloned expecially if I had lost a child previously.
I could not and would not want a child cloned expecially if I had lost a child previously.
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