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Judicial Lunacy in ActionFollow

#1 Jan 06 2005 at 1:26 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
- Andrea Yates' capital murder convictions for drowning her children were overturned Thursday by an appeals court, which ruled that a prosecution witness' erroneous testimony about a nonexistent TV episode could have been crucial.


AP Photo


AP Photo
Slideshow: Texas Mom's Murder Convictions Overturned


Yates' lawyers had argued at a hearing last month before a three-judge panel of the First Court of Appeals in Houston that psychiatrist Park Dietz was wrong when he mentioned an episode of the TV show "Law & Order" involving a woman found innocent by reason of insanity for drowning her children.


After jurors found Yates guilty, attorneys in the case and jurors learned no such episode existed.


"We conclude that there is a reasonable likelihood that Dr. Dietz's false testimony could have affected the judgment of the jury," the court ruled. "We further conclude that Dr. Dietz's false testimony affected the substantial rights of appellant."


The appellate ruling returns the case for a new trial, although prosecutors said they hoped instead to successfully appeal Thursday's ruling.


"We fully intend to pursue a motion for a rehearing," said Harris County Assistant District Attorney Alan Curry, who argued the case before the appeals court. "Barring that, we'll continue to appeal to the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals. We still believe we have a good shot to prevail in appeal."


Jurors in 2002 sentenced Yates to life in prison in the 2001 deaths of three of her children. She was not tried in the deaths of the other two.


The defense's appeal cited 19 errors from her trial, but the appeals court said since the false testimony issue reversed the conviction, it was not ruling on the other matters. Among other things, Yates attorneys had claimed the Texas insanity standard is unconstitutional.


Prosecutors told the court last month there was no evidence Dietz intentionally lied and that the testimony was evoked by Yates' defense attorney during cross-examination. They also argued that Dietz's testimony wasn't material to the case and there was plenty of other testimony about Yates' plans to kill her children.


"We agree that this case does not involve the state's knowing use of perjured testimony," the appeals court said in its ruling. But the judges said prosecutors did use the testimony twice and referred to it in closing arguments.


A woman answering the telephone at Dietz's Newport Beach, Calif., office said Thursday there was no immediate comment from him or his firm. He had testified the episode aired shortly before the drownings, and other testimony during the trial had indicated that Yates watched the series.


The error came to light during the sentencing phase of the trial. State District Judge Belinda Hill refused a defense request for a mistrial but allowed the attorneys to stipulate to jurors, before they decided on Yates' punishment, that the program did not exist.


Prosecutor Joe Owmby said at the time that Dietz didn't tell him until after his closing arguments in the guilt phase of the trial that he was mistaken about the show.


"He was confused and made an error," Owmby said.


A wet and bedraggled Yates called police to her home on June 20, 2001, and showed them the bodies of her five children: Noah, 7, John, 5, Paul, 3, Luke, 2, and 6-month-old Mary. She had called them into the bathroom and drowned them one by one.


According to testimony, Yates was overwhelmed by motherhood, considered herself a bad mother, and had attempted suicide and been hospitalized for depression.


Prosecutors acknowledged she was mentally ill but argued that she could tell right from wrong and was thus not legally insane.


The case stirred debate over the legal standard for mental illness and whether postpartum depression is properly recognized and taken seriously. Women's groups had harshly criticized prosecutors for pushing for the death penalty.

Dietz is a nationally known expert who also took part in such high profile cases as those of Susan Smith, convicted of killing her two children in a South Carolina lake; serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer; and "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski.



TV, whether or not it was a fake episode, should have had no bearing on this descision. The woman is beyond psychotic. She Murdered her own children. If this woman does not fry, then the American Judicial system needs to be torn down and rebuilt form the ground up.
#2 Jan 06 2005 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Why is it lunacy? A witness for the prosecution has been impeached. Do it over.

The lunacy is in the prosecution's having let that happen. Never put a witness on the stand if you don't know what they're going to say. Never ask a question if you don't already know the answer.
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#3 Jan 06 2005 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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Fu[b][/b]ckin' Savages.
#4 Jan 06 2005 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
Gurue
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I went to school with Andrea Yates' husband. I don't know her, but I really feel bad for him. Smiley: frown
#5 Jan 06 2005 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Do the trial again, find her guilty again. This time, though, fry her like a bug.

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#6 Jan 06 2005 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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"Your honor, I would like to cite precedent in these proceedings when I mention that, on Night Court, Harry did not find the prostitutes guilty of contempt when they shook their breastal regions at Dan Fielding. So you can see where clearly my client is here is innocent of any wrongdoings...."

WTF does an episode of Law & Order have to do with anything that it'd even be mentioned in court?
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#7 Jan 06 2005 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
Yer honor, ifn it's good enough for Matlock, it's good enough for us'ns. Fry her ***.
#8 Jan 06 2005 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Bleah. It's cases like this that make me rethink my plans to go into criminal law after college.

I could *never* see myself defending a person like that in such a manner...
#9 Jan 06 2005 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
Well, only accept cases when you believe the defendant is innocent and you'll be ok. Worked for Andy Griffith.
#10 Jan 06 2005 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The case stirred debate over the legal standard for mental illness and whether postpartum depression is properly recognized and taken seriously. Women's groups had harshly criticized prosecutors for pushing for the death penalty.

Never having been a mother, my closest frame of reference for this is my own mother, who told me that she was ecstatic at the birth of each one of her children, and never experienced anything greater than a passing sadness at the loss of her figure and free time. Who else out there has had this? Wouldn't postpartum depression that leads to harming yourself and others cross the line into mental illness? I think it's a mistake to equate the two, though.
#11 Jan 06 2005 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Apparently, some form of depression (from mild blues to alarming loss of appetite and even loss of interest in the baby) can affect up to 40% of new mothers within the first couple of years after birth. The more severe form is pretty rare, the mild form much more common.

Then there are women, rarely, who most likely have an underlying undiagnosed mental illness that is revealed via the stress of pregnancy, child birth and new motherhood. I have to think Mrs. Yates falls into this category.
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#12 Jan 06 2005 at 4:59 PM Rating: Good
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ABombiNation wrote:
The woman is beyond psychotic. She Murdered her own children. If this woman does not fry, then the American Judicial system needs to be torn down and rebuilt form the ground up.


Ok, so you're saying she's psychotic. If she's psychotic, then she couldn't have been in sound mind to decide whether what she was doing was right or not. Hence the insanity plea.

You don't fry someone who is psychotic, you treat them. You fry someone who was in sound mind.

The lunacy here is the fact that a key part of the testimony involved an episode of tv FICTION. Fiction is not real. Hence the fiction part of it. What the hell is wrong with america when law and order is enough to get someone an insanity plea?

Also, Park Dietz is a forensic psychiatrist, and he's become sort of a celeb thanks to his high profile cases. He's also a jackass, like most people who bask in the spotlight too long. He's made quite a large hunk of money thanks to his multiple shows on HBO about Richard "The Iceman" Kuklinski and Jeffrey Dahmer. I'd be surprised if the guy actually had a real degree to begin with, and was any more than a celebrity.

As someone who wants to become a forensic psychologist, he's basically the thing my professors have taught us "not to be." Anyone who'd be foolish enough to accept his tesitmony in the first place should have their head examined.

Pardon the pun.

At least he can consider his career all but ruined thanks to his testimony. Good riddance.

Edited, Thu Jan 6 17:07:21 2005 by scubamage
#13 Jan 06 2005 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
Can we just fry the ***** already?
#14 Jan 06 2005 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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Warlord Lefein wrote:
Can we just fry the ***** already?

Smiley: lol
#15 Jan 06 2005 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The woman is beyond psychotic.


Which was the point the defense attorneys were trying to make so she would be locked up in anuthouse to get help, instead of a new GF everyweek named Bertha.

Flea to answer your question,PPD is a combination of emotional and chemical stress. Most woman do not get PPD. Many get whats called the "baby blues", where it fully dawns on you exactly how different your life will be along with your body trying to cope from major stress. The chemicals in your body are very different from non pregnancy state, and usualy they adjust a few weeks after your childs birth. But sometimes instead, they can rollercoaster, or not get right for a very long time, causing symptoms of PPD. I think the combination of physical bodily stress, exhaustion, emotional stress, and chemical unbalances, could be combined to make a woman insane.
I was a nervous wreck about PPD because the Yates case happened when I was pregnant and I was scared to death that a woman could get that low and do this.


As for Yates though, I could almost see her claiming insanity for killing 1 child. But to do it over and over 5 times, you would think she had an idea of what she was doing.
#16 Jan 06 2005 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
Who cares, she's dangerous and I dont want to pay for her meals... Fry her.
#17 Jan 06 2005 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
Gurue
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About Andrea Yates

Someone should have put her in an institution a long time before the murders happened.
#18 Jan 06 2005 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
Mistress Nadenu wrote:
About Andrea Yates

Someone should have put one to her dome a long time before the murders happened.

FTFY. Bullets are a lot cheaper.
#19 Jan 06 2005 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Taken from the article Nadenu posted

Quote:
Dr. Starbranch warned the Yates that having another baby might bring on more episodes of psychotic behavior.


Quote:
In March of 2000, Andrea, on Rusty's urging, became pregnant and stopped taking the Haldol.


I think Rusty should be punished as well. He was warned by the Dr. what could happen if she got pregnant again, and yet he urged his wife to get off the medicine prescribed to her and wanted yet another baby.

That is absolutely disgusting.
#20 Jan 06 2005 at 7:23 PM Rating: Decent
I think it goes without saying that the dude had problems if he kept knocking the psycho up. He obviously took gross advantage of someone who couldn't think straight. He should be punished just like those highschool boys who raped a special ed student. I guess it's not rape if she consented, but if we are going to lock her up in a mental institute rather than execute the bit[/u]ch then we've already foregone personal responsibility. Let the guy run free!
#21 Jan 06 2005 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only scubamage wrote:


The lunacy here is the fact that a key part of the testimony involved an episode of tv FICTION. Fiction is not real. Hence the fiction part of it. What the hell is wrong with america when law and order is enough to get someone an insanity plea?


I'm guessing that the testimony about the TV show wasn't intended to imply any sort of judgement on whether she should be seen as insane or not based on the judgement in the show, but was about whether the defendant may have gotten the idea from the show. At least that's the impression I got. If you establish that the defendant watched a particular TV show, and you then talk about an episode of that show in which a woman drowned her kids and was found not-guilty by reason of insanity, and you now have the defendant having drowned her kids trying to enter a not-guilty by reason of insanity plea, you can imply that the defendant planned to kill the kids in that manner specifically because she thought she could get off on an inanity plea.

Discovering that the show actually never aired an episode showing that makes a *huge* difference in the case. Essentially, a good portion of the prosecutions case for her not being insane rests in an implication that she may have gotten the idea to kill her children in that manner from the show in order to make it appear that she was insane. Finding out that the episode did not exist means that she couldn't have gotten the idea from the show, and changes the dynamic of that decision dramatically.

Retrying the case is the right thing to do.
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#22 Jan 06 2005 at 8:44 PM Rating: Decent
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I think that the real crimials in this case has always been Yates' Husband and Doctors who knowning her history of PPD and Pyschotic episodes, allowed her to be alone with the kids.

I had PPD after my 2nd child, but when I realized how Depress I was, I went and got help, because I was worried about how I could take care of my girls, then aged 2 year 11 months and 10 months.

During the worst of the depression, I sent my girls to stay with my in-laws. I refused to keep more then a weeks meds at home and never stayed home alone, but had full time childcare.

This was back before such cases maded the news. I spent some time reading up on PPD and was worried that it would come back, when I found myself expecting my youngest. Anytime I showed signs of stress my ex would send me to bed and let me sleep for 24 hours, while he took care of the girls.


I've suffered from bouts depression since and had to go for treatment again, when I develop chronic pain, but nothing as bad as my year of PPD.
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#23 Jan 06 2005 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Good for you for paying attention to yourself and noticing the signs to get help. And massive kudos to your husband as well, for helping you out.
#24 Jan 07 2005 at 12:11 AM Rating: Decent
fry her up. the only thing i had a hard time accepting was her husbands willingness to forgive her. whatever happens to her, he most definitly needs a little psychoanalysis himself
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