Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Marine Deserter AWOL again......Follow

#27 Jan 06 2005 at 4:15 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
You're a MORAN.


You can't spell!
#28 Jan 06 2005 at 4:17 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
You can't spell!


You're a moran, too.
#29 Jan 06 2005 at 4:19 PM Rating: Default
***
1,784 posts
Quote:
Quote:

You're a MORAN.




You can't spell!

Yes he can, and could someone who might have it bookmarked, please link this sock Moran and its contextual meaning here.
I would but my search is not working.
#31 Jan 06 2005 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,847 posts
Just out of curiousity, is there any way that the good Cpl. could have had access too classified, or secret information/plans? I'm sure he would make quite a tastey morsal in an interrogation room for some extremists/insurgents.

Granted, any access to such information probobly would have been taken away after his first AWOL.

Either way, send the ******* to Levenworth and let Lt. Bubba smoke his ***. Too many of my friends have been killed, or injured in Iraq for some nancy boy to go running off like a coward with just a slap on the wrist.
#32 Jan 06 2005 at 7:11 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
Just out of curiousity, is there any way that the good Cpl. could have had access too classified, or secret information/plans? I'm sure he would make quite a tastey morsal in an interrogation room for some extremists/insurgents.

Granted, any access to such information probobly would have been taken away after his first AWOL.

Either way, send the ******* to Levenworth and let Lt. Bubba smoke his ***. Too many of my friends have been killed, or injured in Iraq for some nancy boy to go running off like a coward with just a slap on the wrist.


At most he might have had a Secret Genser clearance. Which just about anyone can get. I dont know what his specific MOS was but I dont believe he was in the Intel field. I do know he wasnt in the SigInt field. That's my MOS. He might have had some info when he first deserted about immediate troop movements within his unit but that would be about it. The only thing that might have given him access to a limited amount of classified is his ability to speak Arabic. If the HumInt guys were using him as a translator he would have been privy to conversations that they were having with prisoners or locals.
#33 Jan 06 2005 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
****
6,760 posts
Quote:
Heh.. I'm not the first to mention this but Shadowrelm is the liberal Varrus.


...except even more of an idiot. And here none of us thought that was humanly possible.
____________________________
Some people are like slinkies, they aren't really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
#34 Jan 07 2005 at 12:44 AM Rating: Decent
show the world how well military tribunals work: give him a half-hour trial, find him guilty, sentence him to execution by firing squad, then quietly shuffle any extraneous paperwork somewhere dark and generally ignored
#35 Jan 07 2005 at 1:00 AM Rating: Default
The Cpl. MOS was interrogator translator. Or Intel if you like. He likely had some sort of intelligence but nothing that could harm anyone or put any Marines at risk. Any thing he was likely involved with was changed at the time he disappeared the first time. The only thing he really has to offer to any one is his training.
Oh and Military trials are not death sentences, they are actually fair and just. You have the right to an attorney, you have the right to a trial by court martial, and a right to be tried by a jury of your peers. Only thing is your peers are a bunch of hard *** Staff NCO’s who have been doing this for a living since Christ was a Cpl. Chances are he wont be executed although most Marines would like to see it happen, it just wont in this day and age. I sure would like to see it though.
#36 Jan 07 2005 at 10:51 AM Rating: Default
***
2,453 posts
Oh and Military trials are not death sentences, they are actually fair and just.

Hardly. If they are so fair and just how come I was convicted of something I didn't do? (That's a rhetorical question, I don't actually expect an answer, its just there to point out that military trials are usually less fair and just then civilian ones)


You have the right to an attorney

At my court martial MY attorney, the one that I hired (a former Navy JAG with a higher security clearance than I ever had), and with whom I prepared my defense, was not allowed to represent me. Instead I was appointed an Navy attorney that didn't even read the files my actual attorney sent to him. The court cited 'security concerns' as the grounds to bar my attorney from the proceedings. My problem with that is that nothing about the trial or any of the charges against me had anything to do with security. But by citing 'security concerns' they make the trial unreviewable by any civilian authority.


you have the right to a trial by court martial

This is one they'll actually give you. Its only slightly less difficult for the military to control the verdict in a court martial then is it in a non-judicial hearing.


and a right to be tried by a jury of your peers

Very loosely interpreted. My "peers" consisted of four commisioned officers and one lifer Chief. The officers were all Academy grads with career ambitions and the Chief was hoping to get on the promotion list to Senior Chief. All of them, IMHO, were easily intimidated into giving a guilty verdict regardless of the evidence or lack thereof. Of course, that could just be my paranoia speaking.


Look I have spent 15 years in the USMC and leave IS a priviledge. Though you accrue 2.5 days of leave a month the opportunity to take that leave is a priviledge. The service is not obligated to give him leave or even regular liberty for that matter.

Well after 15 years in the Marines you should have learned that leave is guaranteed you by your contract, just like pay. Leave is not a privilige. It is a guaranteed benefit of being in the service. Leave can be denied for certain reasons and at certain times, but ultimately they are required to give it to you.


I cant count the # of days of leave that I have lost due to the inablity to use them. (you can only carry 60 days over the fiscal year)

If you ever lost any leave, its your own damn fault. I, and several other people I knew back when I was in the service, were actually forced to take leave rather then lose it.


The fact of the matter is e should have been in the brig. Someone ie his CO screwed up royally and his/her career is probably over.


Whether or not you think he belonged in the brig is strictly your opinion, and as such is very much not a matter of fact. The powers that be had the authority to confine him until trial if they wanted to, they chose not to. His CO had the authority to deny him leave, he chose not to. Based solely on my experience, I have no doubt that they let the guy go on leave, at least in part, because they wanted to see if he would return. In effect, giving him enough rope to hang himself. If he returns as he's supposed to then no harm is done. But if he doesn't then he has established a pattern of behavior which they can then use against him.

His CO will not suffer at all for this.


You're kidding right? You have obviously spent no time in the military.


And you obviously haven't spent much time reading these boards if that's what you think.

Edited, Fri Jan 7 10:59:59 2005 by Deathwysh
#37 Jan 08 2005 at 1:14 AM Rating: Default
The commanding officer that signed his leave orders is screwed. He let him go ON HIS WORD THAT HE WOULD RETURN. Also leave again is a privilege same as liberty. I have had leave denied before when I was a troop and I have also denied leave to Marines who I new were having problems and may have been a flight risk. It is very simple. All I have to do is say, you know what Pfc I think you are going to CAX for a month during that time sorry. Straighten out and we will give you leave. He has a choice of going U.A or sucking it the **** up. Oh and before the bleeding hearts out there say what an *** hole I am, I am one the most respected leader in my company and disliked by the officers BECAUSE I take care of my Marines and refuse to kiss some college boys ***. Also deathwysh I am very curious what your charges were considering I have been charged numerous times and never had a NJP conviction or a court martial conviction.
#38 Jan 08 2005 at 2:35 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
Well after 15 years in the Marines you should have learned that leave is guaranteed you by your contract, just like pay. Leave is not a privilige. It is a guaranteed benefit of being in the service. Leave can be denied for certain reasons and at certain times, but ultimately they are required to give it to you.


Look fool I never said they could take his leave away just not grant him the leave. There is a distinct difference. Just because he has leave on the books by no mean guarantees his ability to take that leave.


Quote:
If you ever lost any leave, its your own damn fault. I, and several other people I knew back when I was in the service, were actually forced to take leave rather then lose it.


Actually I lost the leave due to deployments and the op tempo my unit maintains.


Quote:
Whether or not you think he belonged in the brig is strictly your opinion, and as such is very much not a matter of fact. The powers that be had the authority to confine him until trial if they wanted to, they chose not to. His CO had the authority to deny him leave, he chose not to. Based solely on my experience, I have no doubt that they let the guy go on leave, at least in part, because they wanted to see if he would return. In effect, giving him enough rope to hang himself. If he returns as he's supposed to then no harm is done. But if he doesn't then he has established a pattern of behavior which they can then use against him.

His CO will not suffer at all for this.


You are just wrong about this. Although there are any # of people in his chain of command who should have stopped this his CO is going to bear the brunt of the flak for letting that Cpl go on leave. His 1st Sgt, SNCOIC, Plt Sgt, or Plt Commander should never have let this happen. Do you really think the Marine Corps really wanted to set itself up for that kind of bad press? It's not like this wasnt in the news media already.

The military doesnt just let people go to see if he wouldnt return. That's about the most asinine thing I have ever heard. There was no need to establish a pattern of behavior. HE DESERTED DURING WARTIME FROM A COMBAT ZONE!!!!!! It's not like he just showed up late a couple of times, or they needed a paper trail to show that his offense wasnt just a singular act that would not rise to a General Courts martial.

Quote:
And you obviously haven't spent much time reading these boards if that's what you think


Well judging by the fact that you were court martialed I would assume your military career was cut a bit short and that you didnt exactly excell while you were on active duty. If you dont think this Marine's CO is going to feel reprocussions because of this you truely have no idea what you are talking about. I'm am not saying there will be charges brought however he or she is now at the highest rank they will attain and at a minimum a letter of reprimand will be placed in his or her file. or in other words their career is over.
#39 Jan 08 2005 at 9:08 AM Rating: Default
***
2,453 posts
Quote:
Well judging by the fact that you were court martialed I would assume your military career was cut a bit short and that you didnt exactly excell while you were on active duty. If you dont think this Marine's CO is going to feel reprocussions because of this you truely have no idea what you are talking about. I'm am not saying there will be charges brought however he or she is now at the highest rank they will attain and at a minimum a letter of reprimand will be placed in his or her file. or in other words their career is over.



Wrong again on every count. I did excel , and I'll happily post my last eval prior to the court-martial to prove it. My court martial came about because I was charged with something I did not do, and I demanded a court-martial because I had already been treated unjustly in Non-judicial punishment by my CO for other matters, and was not going to allow him to shaft me twice (at least not by the same methods). Nor was my military career cut short in any way.

Of the many CO's I had, I can remember two that presided over very embarassing scandals in his command. One was actually guilty of some very serious charges, and all he got in the way of punishment was a desk job at his current rank until he retired. The other had nothing to do with what went on under him, and suffered not one whit as a result. He was an excellent officer and leader and I remained in contact with him until his untimely death from cancer. He was promoted to flag rank after the scandal, he suffered not a damn thing because of it (as was just).


Quote:
Look fool I never said they could take his leave away just not grant him the leave. There is a distinct difference. Just because he has leave on the books by no mean guarantees his ability to take that leave.


Ooooo name calling! You maintain that leave is a privilege. It is not. And as I pointed out more than once already, leave can be denied for various reasons at various times, but ultimately they have to give him his leave. And again, if the authorities thought him a flight risk they could have held him until trial, and his CO could have denied him leave. Neither chose to do so. And again LEAVE IS NOT A PRIVILEGE, IT IS A GUARANTEED CONDITION OF THE MILITARY CONTRACT.


Quote:
You are just wrong about this. Although there are any # of people in his chain of command who should have stopped this his CO is going to bear the brunt of the flak for letting that Cpl go on leave. His 1st Sgt, SNCOIC, Plt Sgt, or Plt Commander should never have let this happen. Do you really think the Marine Corps really wanted to set itself up for that kind of bad press? It's not like this wasnt in the news media already.


If the people you list above felt that he was a flight risk, they would have denied his leave. Wouldn't they? A leave request has to go through a lot of people before its granted doesn't it? If any of the people in this guys chain of command had recommended his leave be denied don't you think it would have been? Maybe. Maybe not. Only the last signature on the chit will matter, and that will be the CO's. And if he approved the guys leave, suspecting that the guy was a flight risk, then you can bet your *** he had a good reason to do so, whether it was just to avoid the bad publicity the guys lawyer might raise if his leave was denied, or whether it was as I suspect to give the guy enough rope to hang himself is largely irrelevant, he had his reasons, and they may very well have come from above.


Quote:
The military doesnt just let people go to see if he wouldnt return. That's about the most asinine thing I have ever heard. There was no need to establish a pattern of behavior. HE DESERTED DURING WARTIME FROM A COMBAT ZONE!!!!!! It's not like he just showed up late a couple of times, or they needed a paper trail to show that his offense wasnt just a singular act that would not rise to a General Courts martial.


You really are the most naive 15 year veteran I've ever met. Are you under the impression that his entire chain of command was completely unaware of the possibility of this man not coming back? If things are as you say they are, then everyone must have suspected that this guy was going to refuse to come back. So they are all either idiots, in which case our military is in big trouble, or they had some reason to allow him to both remain unconfined and go on leave. Hmmmmm.... granted it is the Marine Corps, and they are not exactly renowned for their intellectual acumen, but even they aren't that stupid. You might be, but I have to think that this guy's entire chain of command has to be just a touch brighter than that.

As of yet, the man has not been convicted of anything. Despite your histrionics he's neither a deserter nor a criminal until he has been convicted.


Quote:
Actually I lost the leave due to deployments and the op tempo my unit maintains.


So nobody in your entire outfit was able to take leave for over two years? Because in order to lose leave you have to accumulate at least 60 days worth first. At no time during this 2+ years did you have the opportunity to take leave? ********* If you didn't take it, its your own damned fault.
#40 Jan 08 2005 at 10:01 AM Rating: Default
He's a coward and so are you for that matter asshat, regardless of how you feel about our presence in Iraq.
----------------------------------------------------------------

coward.

whould that be someone "afraid" of dying for something HE believed in?

or, as in this case, are you defining it as someone "afraid" to die for something SOMEOME ELSE believes in even though he believes that someone else is committing a WAR CIME?

brave is standing up for what you believe in, inspite of the ridicule you will recieve for it, and irreguardless of the harm it might cause you. kind of like Kerry did after his term in vietnam.

stupid is following a bunch of lemmings off a cliff because the leader was a blind idiot.

as far as his military service is concerned.....he signed up to protect this country and its allies. he was doing NEITHER in Iraq. im betting not a single one of our "volenteer" military signed up to butcher people, and die for a POLITICAL AGENDA.

a coward is putting your own life before your convictions or beliefs. there is no evidence he is doing this at all.

stupidity, like 59 million people in this country, is going with the flow right or wrong.

he is not stupid. there is no evidence this is an act of cowardice.

but.....in order ot keep the other sheep from seeing the light, he will have to be punnished, not so much for what HE did, but ot keep the other sheep in line.

the people in jail for the prison abuse scandle DID what they were told. were they "stupid"? were they "cowards"? were they "brave"?

they were punnished for not thinking for themselves. this man will be punnished for thinking for himself. welcome to the american military.
#41 Jan 08 2005 at 11:05 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
Wrong again on every count. I did excel , and I'll happily post my last eval prior to the court-martial to prove it. My court martial came about because I was charged with something I did not do, and I demanded a court-martial because I had already been treated unjustly in Non-judicial punishment by my CO for other matters, and was not going to allow him to shaft me twice (at least not by the same methods). Nor was my military career cut short in any way.

Of the many CO's I had, I can remember two that presided over very embarassing scandals in his command. One was actually guilty of some very serious charges, and all he got in the way of punishment was a desk job at his current rank until he retired. The other had nothing to do with what went on under him, and suffered not one whit as a result. He was an excellent officer and leader and I remained in contact with him until his untimely death from cancer. He was promoted to flag rank after the scandal, he suffered not a damn thing because of it (as was just).


Sounds like you were the best little sailor in the Navy. Got NJP'ed and court martialed all in one enlistment. You know that is the Mark of a successful tour in the Military. At least one NJP and a court martial. You sound like all the Marines who get in trouble when they go home. I was a stellar preformer prior to being unjustly NJP'ed. My 1st Sgt and CO have it out for me. blah blah.... You sound like the type of service member that never realized that they were in fact no longer a civilian and there were different rules that applied to you.

Quote:
Ooooo name calling! You maintain that leave is a privilege. It is not. And as I pointed out more than once already, leave can be denied for various reasons at various times, but ultimately they have to give him his leave. And again, if the authorities thought him a flight risk they could have held him until trial, and his CO could have denied him leave. Neither chose to do so. And again LEAVE IS NOT A PRIVILEGE, IT IS A GUARANTEED CONDITION OF THE MILITARY CONTRACT.


http://www.usmc.mil/directiv.nsf/0/b166030e3a42cf8c85256497006bdd02/$FILE/MCO%2012630.2.pdf

b. Absence from duty on the part of civilian employees
must be approved by the appropriate supervisory authority.
Leave is a benefit which civilian employees of the Marine Corps
accrue for purposes of vacations, periods of illness or medical
treatment, or other personal reasons. However, the use of
leave is subject to supervisory approval. Unless leave approval
is mandatory, such as leave for military or jury duty, leave will
not be approved in cases where the employee’s absence would
impact on mission accomplishment. Any unauthorized absence will
be recorded as absence without leave (AWOL).


That's the leave policy for civilian's employed by the USMC. Think the leave policy might be similiar or maybe even a bit stricter for the Active duty personel? Again the only thing that is gaurenteed is the accrual of leave not the oppurtunity to take that leave. That's the priviledge part. Your confusing the two.

Quote:
You really are the most naive 15 year veteran I've ever met. Are you under the impression that his entire chain of command was completely unaware of the possibility of this man not coming back? If things are as you say they are, then everyone must have suspected that this guy was going to refuse to come back. So they are all either idiots, in which case our military is in big trouble, or they had some reason to allow him to both remain unconfined and go on leave. Hmmmmm.... granted it is the Marine Corps, and they are not exactly renowned for their intellectual acumen, but even they aren't that stupid. You might be, but I have to think that this guy's entire chain of command has to be just a touch brighter than that.

As of yet, the man has not been convicted of anything. Despite your histrionics he's neither a deserter nor a criminal until he has been convicted.


This is precisely my point. I am at a loss as to what his command was thinking. He was clearly a flight risk yet they granted him leave anyway. I dont know whether they were afraid because he was an Arab and his story had already been in the national media or what but clearly they screwed up and they will pay for it. As to his guilt. Let's just go through his story of how he got from his base in Iraq to Lebenon.

According to this Cpl. he was kidnapped. So someone had to come on the base and grab him and then smuggle him off the base then get him across international borders all the way to Lebenon. All the while this guy doesnt suffer so much as a scratch. Now knowing the history of the kinds of people who are doing the kidnapping in Iraq I find that story a little hard to believe. I realize that he hadnt been found guilty in a court martial yet but it's pretty clear that a. he is indeed a deserter, and b. he was a flight risk. I am obviously right or we wouldnt be having this conversation right now. His Co made a bad decision. Why he made that decision is really irrelevent.

Quote:
So nobody in your entire outfit was able to take leave for over two years? Because in order to lose leave you have to accumulate at least 60 days worth first. At no time during this 2+ years did you have the opportunity to take leave? Bullsh*t. If you didn't take it, its your own damned fault.


Is that what I said? that noone was able to take leave? no I said that I have lost a substantial amount of leave over my 15 year career due to operational tempo. I have spent approximately 9 of the 15 years deployed. Only in the last 3 years or so have I stopped deploying as much. (since my son was born and his mother died.) between doing the work ups prior to deployment and the deployments themselves I have been in the situation where I was unable to take leave, and I am not the only Marine in that situation.
#42 Jan 09 2005 at 3:06 AM Rating: Default
Shadowrealm you have no real concept of the military do you. You all think we sighned up for some noble purpose or like wise B.S. Well let me inlighten you as far as Marine training since I am one.

1. We are not lemmings. Every Marine is a leader who is expected to know the job of the man above him. Marines are expected to question things. This is the only way change is braught and the only way improvements are made.

2. Marines have always been known for there bravery on and off the battle field. This man served capably for a significant time then abandand HIS Marines. I say his Marines because he was a Non Commisioned officer.

3. In training we shout KILL, KILL, KILL so ther is no big secret about what we do for a living. Our conditions are kept misserable intentialaly in order to **** us off even more.

4. Most Marines pray for war. Believe it or not we do. I injoyed the hell out of it in 2003. We are not stone cold killers we are just doing a job. That Marine who abondend his post is dangerous to the United States wether you want to believe it or not.

Marines are shock troops much like the SS. We are used to break the back of the enemy forces and it is due largly to our mind set through training and our belief in each other, God and the Corps. This is not the Military you see on Full Metal Jacket. That world does not exist any more. That Marine neads to be captured again put away. He was most likly never really in the Marines to do anything but gather intel for terrorist. He is not a hero regardless of how you feal. He will most likly be very ******* dead very soon also.
#43 Jan 09 2005 at 9:28 AM Rating: Default
***
2,453 posts
Quote:
Sounds like you were the best little sailor in the Navy. Got NJP'ed and court martialed all in one enlistment. You know that is the Mark of a successful tour in the Military. At least one NJP and a court martial. You sound like all the Marines who get in trouble when they go home. I was a stellar preformer prior to being unjustly NJP'ed. My 1st Sgt and CO have it out for me. blah blah.... You sound like the type of service member that never realized that they were in fact no longer a civilian and there were different rules that applied to you.



At last! Someone else finally recognizes that I was the best. Its been a long time coming, but I can't say I don't deserve it. Actually I didn't have one NJP, I had four (some just, some not). Remarkably not a single one of them was a result of something I did when I went home. One of the marks of a successful tour as a man is when one refuses to compromise ones morals or values to satisfy the wants of some dimwit, sadistic megalomaniac. As much as is seems you'd like to turn this into a thread about me, I'll have to suggest we get back on to the real subject at hand.


Quote:
That's the leave policy for civilian's employed by the USMC. Think the leave policy might be similiar or maybe even a bit stricter for the Active duty personel? Again the only thing that is gaurenteed is the accrual of leave not the oppurtunity to take that leave. That's the priviledge part. Your confusing the two.


The leave policy for civilian employees is utterly irrelevant, but thanks for bringing it up. Feel free to cite some information that says that leave is a privilege and not a contractual condition of enlistment.

Quote:
This is precisely my point. I am at a loss as to what his command was thinking. He was clearly a flight risk yet they granted him leave anyway. I dont know whether they were afraid because he was an Arab and his story had already been in the national media or what but clearly they screwed up and they will pay for it.


Aaah, so you admit that the thoughts of this man's chain of command are beyond you. That's a good start. Perhaps, as I have suggested numerous times, they had a reason to let him go on leave despite his potential as a flight risk. Maybe they didn't feel the need to consult you or I on the matter. Maybe they had reasons of their own, maybe the reasons came from on high. But obviously they had reasons. Because if they'd had any valid reason to deny him his leave, they could have easily done so without ever having to justify it to anyone beyond 'needs of the service'.


Quote:
As to his guilt. Let's just go through his story of how he got from his base in Iraq to Lebenon.


Let's not. I don't doubt, or for that matter care, whether he is actually guilty. I'm not defending his actions in anyway.


Quote:
I realize that he hadnt been found guilty in a court martial yet but it's pretty clear that a. he is indeed a deserter, and b. he was a flight risk.


For someone that realizes he hasn't been found guilty yet, you seem to be pretty quick to declare him guilty.


Quote:
I am obviously right or we wouldnt be having this conversation right now.


This converstation has nothing to do with the mans guilt or innocence, or whether you were right or wrong about it.


Quote:
His Co made a bad decision. Why he made that decision is really irrelevent.


Why his CO made the decision his did is the crus of the matter. It is entirely relevant. His CO made the decision with all the facts in front of him. You are judging that decision with only the information that has been presented in the news media. Why the CO made that decision cannot be accurately assessed without having the same information that his CO had. Since we don't have that information, trying to do would simply make us (well, just you really) look like fools. Since you don't have that information, you cannot possibly determine that he made a bad decision, or that he made that decision without the full approval of his superiors, or that his career will suffer as a result.


Quote:
Is that what I said? that noone was able to take leave? no I said that I have lost a substantial amount of leave over my 15 year career due to operational tempo. I have spent approximately 9 of the 15 years deployed. Only in the last 3 years or so have I stopped deploying as much. (since my son was born and his mother died.) between doing the work ups prior to deployment and the deployments themselves I have been in the situation where I was unable to take leave, and I am not the only Marine in that situation.


Aaah, well that's a little more accurate. I'll suggest again that you had ample opportunity to take leave during that time, but failed to avail yourself of that opportunity. There simply has not been the kind of constant military action over the past 15 years that would prevent anyone from taking enough leave to avoid losing it.
#44 Jan 09 2005 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
At last! Someone else finally recognizes that I was the best. Its been a long time coming, but I can't say I don't deserve it. Actually I didn't have one NJP, I had four (some just, some not). Remarkably not a single one of them was a result of something I did when I went home. One of the marks of a successful tour as a man is when one refuses to compromise ones morals or values to satisfy the wants of some dimwit, sadistic megalomaniac. As much as is seems you'd like to turn this into a thread about me, I'll have to suggest we get back on to the real subject at hand.


LOL 4 NJP's and a Court Martial. Sounds to me like you had a little trouble understanding rules bud. Much like in this case. Here I have 2 questions for you.

1, Could this Marine's CO have denied his leave?

2, Seeing as the Marine in question was accused of being a deserter dont you think it would have been prudent to do so?

Quote:
Aaah, well that's a little more accurate. I'll suggest again that you had ample opportunity to take leave during that time, but failed to avail yourself of that opportunity. There simply has not been the kind of constant military action over the past 15 years that would prevent anyone from taking enough leave to avoid losing it


See you keep showing your ignorance of how the military truely works. There most certainly has been constant military action for the last 15 years. Must I list them? Desert Storm, Desert Shield, Bosnia, any number of MEU's (Marine Expeditionary Unit, there are at least 3 deployed at all times), countless TAD's, exercises, OIF 1-2. Do I have to continue? Couple that with my MOS and the Unit's I have been assigned to and you get my deployment rate. Did I say I have never taken leave? No believe me I have taken plenty, but I have also lost a good bit because of deployments.
#45 Jan 09 2005 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
As most of you know my fiance is in the marines, he is an urban warfare specialist. I have to admit he loves his career, and is very good at it. Do to his speciality he has lost some leave at times, but he is always compensated when things slow down just as the rest of his unit is. A deserter is the worst thing that can happen to a unit, it is far more detrimental to them than the death of a unit member. The deserter knows all their techniques, equipment, troop strength, and capabilities. This can be devastating when shared with the enemy. This f'cking *** has either had this as his intention all along, or changed sides somewhere along the way. He was not drafted so his participation was intially voluntary. It is one thing to not support the war, but it is entirely different to actively undermine your fellow marines. Disertion in a time of war is treason, and should be treated as such!

The only place for a traitor is a 12 foot hole in a cheap wooden box!
#46 Jan 09 2005 at 11:37 AM Rating: Default
A deserter is the worst thing that can happen to a unit, it is far more detrimental to them than the death of a unit member. The deserter knows all their techniques, equipment, troop strength, and capabilities. This can be devastating when shared with the enemy. This f'cking *** has either had this as his intention all along, or changed sides somewhere along the way.
----------------------------------------------------------------

a deserter out of fear is only a disgrace to the deserter, not the military.

a deserter out of a concience choice that cannot be readily contributed to fear IS the worst thing that can happen to the military.

but not because of a betrayal of information. all any one has to do to learn our tactics is go to boot camp, then leave. trust me, enyone who is interested enough ALREADY KNOWS our techniques and equipment. this is not a good argument.

a deserter who makes a concience decision, not out of fear, to desert is dangerious because OTHERS might get the same idea. during WW1, the british troops on the ground in places called a truce during christmas. they actually crossed lines and shared meals together, as well as comaraudery.

the threat? the troops lost motivation to kill their new friends, and no longer believed the propaganda their government was feeding them to motivate them to kill. they learned they were kids, just like themselves. scared, hungry, missing their home and famileys, and not the hidious monster baby killers they were led to believe by their government to motivate them into killing them without mercy.

THIS is the threat of desertion that cannot be attributed to cowardice. the undermining of authority. the inplantation of a thought process that your immediate superrior DOES NOT have absolute authority and controll over your life and the decisions you make. that you can......think for yourself.

this is every leaders worst fear. the realization that the power does not come from the leader by the masses, but from the masses themselves. that the leader is only as significant as long as they serve the will of the masses......and not the other way around.

this is also why our leaders go to such great lengths to MISINFORM YOU about the realities of war. propaganda. why thye try their level best to paint a picture that leads you down the path THEY choose, and not necessarily the path of TRUTH.

the worst kind of deserter is the deserter that is not a coward..............................

i will say this to you. the only leader worth following is God. as for every other leader, question EVERYTHING you are told, DEMAND answers, DEMAND, dont ask. they WILL mislead you, it is what they do....
#47 Jan 09 2005 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,453 posts
Quote:


1, Could this Marine's CO have denied his leave?

2, Seeing as the Marine in question was accused of being a deserter dont you think it would have been prudent to do so?



Of course his CO could have. I've stated that several times already. But he wasn't denied leave. So unless this entire man's chain of command (and give the publicity of this particular individual, that CoC would probably extend well beyond his CO), are a bunch of ******* asshats (and since thay are Marines, I will grant you that this is a possibility), then they didn't just grant his leave in complete ignorance of who he was and what he had been accused of.

Whether it would have been prudent to deny his leave, is entirely a matter of what his CO wanted to accomplish.

There are numerous reasons for granting this man leave, most of which I've mentioned, but since you seem to have reading comprehension problems, I'll do so again, just for you.

1. He's entitled to leave.

2. Since its a high profile case, his CO (or whatever other powers that be that me be influencing his CO), did not want it to seem as if they were treating this man any differently than anyone else, in order to avoid bad press.

3. They actively wanted to get rid of the guy and were giving him the opportunity to **** up again. I know that to your dull, overly simplistic jarhead mind this is really difficult to understand, but its a very real possibility. Sometimes its just best to be rid of the trouble makers, and the easiest way to do it is to not take any active measures beyond the norm to prevent him from doing so.

4. To give the guy a chance to make some measure of redemption. If he returns from leave as he was supposed to, that gives some intention that he wants to be part of his unit.

5. They're all dimwits. His entire chain of command is composed of slack-jawed, inbred, mouth-breathing, micro-encephalic, intellectually challenged morons, none of whom were capable of recognizing that this guy might not come back. Or worse, they were aware of it, but thought it would be a good idead to send him on leave anyway. While Marines have been the butt of many stupid jokes over the decades, I don't really think that they're quite this dumb. You, however, seem to think this is what really happened. Which doesn't speak to well of your opinion of your own service. Which raises the question, why would someone with such a low opinion of the Marines re-enlist often enough to have been in for 15 years?


If you're going to keep harping on these same two question, both of which I have answered numerous times already, then I can only conclude that you are as stupd as you are suggesting this man's superiors are. If that's the case, please just shut up about it, you've made your points and they've been repeatedly refuted. If you don't understand the answers that have been given to you, repeatedly, just admit it, we won't make fun of you.
#48 Jan 09 2005 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent
****
8,619 posts
Hey Death what rank where/are you? and branch if your allowed to say?

#49 Jan 09 2005 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,453 posts
Quote:
Hey Death what rank where/are you? and branch if your allowed to say?


I was in the Navy for six years, was promoted 5 times and demoted twice. Highest rank acheived was E-5, 2nd Class Petty Officer - the equivalent of a plain old sergeant in the other services. For comparison, Stok retired as an E-6 after twenty years in the service (IIRC). But since I don't really want to make this a thread about me, I'll leave it at that. Anyone that wants more information can PM me.

#50 Jan 09 2005 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
****
8,619 posts
Ahh nice, we Brits only have broad ranks with no splits within Ranks.

I am a Leading Logistician.
#51 Jan 10 2005 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
1. He's entitled to leave.
Quote:


Again I will tell you that he wasnt entitled to the leave. When a Marine wants to go on leave he has to ask permission of the CoC. If the taking of leave were guarenteed as you claim all Marines would have to do is inform the CoC when they were leaving and when they would be back and as long as he has the leave on the books he could go. Guess what, that isnt the case.

Quote:
2. Since its a high profile case, his CO (or whatever other powers that be that me be influencing his CO), did not want it to seem as if they were treating this man any differently than anyone else, in order to avoid bad press.


The problem with that scenario is that they would be treating him differently that everyone else. I have never heard of anyone who is in that kind of trouble being granted leave until the legal problems are resolved. If he's found innocent it isnt like he cant take the leave at a later date.


Quote:
3. They actively wanted to get rid of the guy and were giving him the opportunity to @#%^ up again. I know that to your dull, overly simplistic jarhead mind this is really difficult to understand, but its a very real possibility. Sometimes its just best to be rid of the trouble makers, and the easiest way to do it is to not take any active measures beyond the norm to prevent him from doing so.


This is the most moronic of your statements. If they wanted to just be rid of him there is a process for that it's called Administrative Seperation, and it happens all the time. It isnt as if a Marine just decides to leave and not come back that the military just say oh well lost another one. A warrent is issued and if you ever get pulled over, or have any type of run in with a law enforcement agency, guess what your *** is right back where you started. There is no way this is the reason that they let him go on leave.


[quote]4. To give the guy a chance to make some measure of redemption. If he returns from leave as he was supposed to, that gives some intention that he wants to be part of his unit.


This is yet another Moronic statement. HE DESERTED FROM HIS UNIT DURING COMBAT. I understand that you have no concept of what this means being in the Navy, but that is the biggest slap in the face to your unit and comrades possible. If they wanted to see him redeem himself he could have done so by performing his duties at the unit.

[quote]5. They're all dimwits. His entire chain of command is composed of slack-jawed, inbred, mouth-breathing, micro-encephalic, intellectually challenged morons, none of whom were capable of recognizing that this guy might not come back. Or worse, they were aware of it, but thought it would be a good idead to send him on leave anyway. While Marines have been the butt of many stupid jokes over the decades, I don't really think that they're quite this dumb. You, however, seem to think this is what really happened.


Yes I do and while I dont think they are as stupid as you put it, they were stupid for letting that POS go on leave. That's the whole point. I am shocked that his CO was this galacticly stupid. I am at a loss as to what he thought was going to happen. I cant believe that he signed off on that leave request and then didnt immediately come to his senses and say WTF am I thinking as he was ripping it into a million pieces. I cant believe he wasnt in the brig in pretrial confinement. LCpls (e-3's) and below can be sent to Corrective Custody for up to 30 days for showing up to work late habitually. ( For those that dont know CC consists basically being in jail and performing hard labor 8 hours a day. And by hard labor I mean literally making little rocks out of big rocks.) How was this Marine not in an Orange jumpsuit rotting in a cell? The answer is I dont know, and neither do you. (and no you havnt come up with a reasonable reason previously)

[quote]If you're going to keep harping on these same two question, both of which I have answered numerous times already, then I can only conclude that you are as stupd as you are suggesting this man's superiors are. [quote]


Just because you type something on this message board doesnt make it true. And btw who do you think has a better grasp on the rules and how things work in this Rod and Gun club?
Some squid who, in his 6 year stint was subject to 4 NJP's and a Court Martial or a 15 year Marine who has never been in enough trouble for official action to be taken.

Lastly, GFY and come back when you have some idea about what the **** you are talking about.

Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 295 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (295)