Moral Dilemma.....Relief to IndonesiaFollow

If there is a god, and he made mankind in his image, and he gave us free will, then why did he allow 150,000 people to die? Sins? You realize sins are simply a man made concept right? That sins are a way of making people feel guilty right? That by making people feel guilty that lowers their self esteem right? That by lowering people's self esteem that they're less likely to revolt against their leaders and/or more willing to obey orders right?
So explain again why a forgiving diety, who yet allowed his own son to get killed, would visit death upon more then a hundred thousand people, more then a third of which children, death, disease, distruction, and sorrow? I'm not sure I follow your logic in that.

As opposed to keeping them alive forever? The whole idea behind a salvation based faith is that you don't know when your time is going to be up, otherwise we'd all be looking at our watches and repenting in the final five minutes.

Over the years I have gone from indifferent to religion to simply hostile. Frankly, religion is at the heart of much that is evil in the world. Only religion can cause otherwise rational and kind people to consider acts that are irrational and inhumane. Religion someone allows people to regularly justify acts of inhumanity as somehow being necessary for humans.

I don't know how anyone with any real conscious or sense of humanity can look at what happened in Asia and not do whatever they can to alleviate the suffering and help those people get some semblence of a normal life back. That's just the right thing to do. I find it telling that the non-religious people in the thread are the ones saying that helping your fellow man when he is down is simply the right thing to do period, and it's the christians - a religion that supposedly preaches the golden rule as it's bases - that are questioning sending aid.

We all live comfortable lives in some of the richest countries in the world. These people barely had anything and now have had that taken away too. Eat hamburger instead of steak a couple days and send them the difference. That way they can eat porridge instead of tree roots for once. I sent large donations to several well known charities within days of the disaster and plan on sending more over the next few months. If that means I will watch the Eagles game on TV instead of going there live, or that I will miss a few meals out and will eat at home instead, that seems like a pretty easy excange to make.

Oh and if you want to put a purely pragmatic political spin on it, for those of you who need a rational other than just simple humanity, think about this. Poverty and distress breeds terrorism. A People devistated by the floods with no other way to go are a prime breeding area for terrorist organizations. On the other hand, it is hard to hate those who came and fed you when you were starving and picked you up when you were down and gave you a reason to live again. Aid from Western countries in this crisis can go a long ways towards helping heal the rift that has opened between our two peoples.

So Drayfitt, I guess you never ever feel bad about something you do or have a sense of guilt for any action you ever committed.

Wow.

What a liberating selfish life you must live! Lucky you! Sociopath much?

Totem

Religion and faith are also the basis of much good done in the world. Plenty of evil is done without the need for religious zeal -- nationalism probably killed more people in the 20th Century than religion has in quite some time.

I agree.

The only people in the thread who've implied not to help have been Totem who linked the photo and Katie's story about an organization having enough money. Unless I missed something. I certainly hope you're not considering Totem and Katie to be the Christian ideal

Real Christians who follow the Word would have no issue or question with donating. Calling yourself Christian while refusing to do as you're called to do is about the same as me calling myself a Republican and people using my example to say how Republicans voted for Kerry

Why not? They believe in an invisible man in the sky, and he's manmade.

Not all ethical behavior is spawned out of irrational religion. Some of us have actually waded through the logic of good and evil (terms created by people to describe those things that work and don't work for humanity), and have concluded that.... here's a flash.... good is better, regardless of any imaginary punishment or reward at the end of life.



Apparently so; but then it's easier when one is not bogged down with received wisdom and the hateful judgements of others.

Of course not. They have a vested interest (so to speak) in the myth.

I do not pretend to know or understand Katielynn's religious faith. Nor do I have omniscient powers to peer into Jophiel's soul. I cannot give you any insight into what goes on inside these people's motives, unlike my friend from Illinois. He apparently can delve into the darkness of those black pits us flinty and cold hearted Republicans call our hearts and weigh our lives in the balance. So for those of you who positively claim there is no God, I present to you Jophiel, the Solomon of the Chicago, the Seer of Men's Souls, the Midwestern Mystic. He alone can gauge someone's faith based on an anonymous message board as decisively as the Holy Spirit and apparently is unafraid to do so publically. So beware him, all who would hypocritically claim religosity. He can measure one's faith as surely as a carny can tell you how much you weigh at the Midway.

For the record, I am quite willing to part with my money-- and have cheerfully done so --to help those in need due to the tsunami, despite what Jophiel implied. And in stark contrast to the picture he'd paint of me being a miserly Republican who wears the mantle of Christianity as a teflon skin, I would show you a person who examines his actions and the results he can expect to reap from them. After all, you wouldn't hand a burglar a loaded handgun because he lost his own, would you? In the same way, dispensing goods-- both foodstuffs and building materials --to our sworn enemies is an act that must be untaken carefully and with both eyes open. And contrary to popular belief that you can just throw money at the problem, a thoughtful and timely response is far more beneficial for everyone. After all, giving cash is likely to have the same result as giving money as a Christmas gift: There is not the same appreciation for legal tender as for something which specifically meets the needs of the recipient.

Thus, when you see individuals wearing Osama T-shirts and recognising it is a predominently Muslim country, you don't toss them a few thousand pigs just because you have some extra lying around. Nor do you give them carte blanch to purchase anything they want with the millions that are headed their way, but rather, put those dollars to good use by notably constructing homes, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and protecting the defenseless with good cheer, a giving attitude, and hard work, all the while demonstrating that this is what America represents.

Totem

Deadside, if by Satanism you mean seances, that is correct. But to imply that he was carving up virgins at midnight during Black Masses-- which is what most people think of when you mention that word --that'd be a gross mischaracterization of who Ben Franklin was.

Totem