Bogus business practices?Follow

Sigh. And exactly how many of those are personal checks, where either the routing info was lifted by someone at a POS or the checks were stolen and then used fraudulently?

How many were "check fraud" where someone opens up an account, writes a bunch of bad checks, and then disapears?

How many of the forged checks were bank transfer checks, written by pros, who wouldn't bother with the time to forge a personal check?


Look. Unless you live under a rock, you've already got a checking acount right? You pay your bills with it, right? The "risk" is already there. Your checks can be stolen out of the mail just as easily whether you use checks to buy things in stores or not. They can be stolen out of your wallet just as easily as well. Some ring of pros obtaining routing numbers and using sophisiticated bank routing schemes to steal money can do that regardless of your check use history, right? None of that protects you.


The only increased risk you take by writing a check at a POS is the remote chance that the guy working the counter there is going to copy that routing number down and use it somehow. While not impossible, it's highly unlikely. Someone who'd do that is 10 times more likely to take and use credit card numbers (for the reasons I've already outlined). There is no other increased risk factor involved.

Credit card (and debit card) numbers are just vastly easier for a criminal to use. That's why they get stolen more often. Which is a greater risk to you is up to you to decide. I have decided that with my purchasing patterns (most items bought with cash, and only more expensive items needing any other method), that using checks suits me far better then using credit cards (and definately better then a debit card).

Frankly, I don't know why you think this is odd. In most of the situations that many people use credit cards, I just use cash. In the rare situations where I'm using a check, I'm making a major purchase, and the time spent writing the check is insignificant. It's not like I'm holding up a grocery line or anything. Additionally, I can use the same method for those purchases that I use for bill payments, thus reducing the number of financial institutions I have to do business with.

For me, it's a good thing all the way around. With the exception only of this very odd rejection yesterday, I've never had a problem doing it that way. Don't know why you decided to turn this into a "why do you use checks anyway?" thread. You want to use nothing but plastic, go ahead. Doesn't mean I feel the same way.

Smash. You are aware that debit cards are *exactly* the same as checks, right? Except that they can be used electronically. They are tied to the same routing numbers and the same accounts. A purchase on a debit card is deducted from your account exactly as though a check was written. The only difference is that while checks generally require ID and a physical piece of paper from the bank with your signature on it, any buffon can swipe your debit card and do the same thing, with no paper needed.

Um. The same "fraud protection" that is on your account for your debit card is on your account for your checks. It's the same exact thing. Doubly so if they are the same account. The fraud protection in that case is on the account, not the card or the checks. Both authorize withdrawals out of your account. The fraud protection says that if you dispute a withdrawal, they'll put the money back while the dispute is going on. It doesn't matter which payment method was used for the withdrawal.



Huh? You *think* you have credit cards? So you actually use nothing but a debit card? And you're slamming me for using checks? Please tell me you're kidding Smash. No one with the alledged income you have is that ignorant of how credit and debit cards work. I've had garbage men make more intelligent comments on the topic then that. Debit cards are the kinds of things teenagers get because they don't have the credit to even get the secured credit cards. Or what really stupid people get because they think it's the same as a credit card, but doesn't cost them interest to use, and don't realize that it's just another way of writing checks on their account.

Huh? You *think* you have credit cards? So you actually use nothing but a debit card? And you're slamming me for using checks?


Yeah, pretty much. I'm slamming you for the REASONING behind you using checks. There really isn't a compelling reason for anyone to use credit cards unless they hae some emrgancy need for a high intrest loan.



Please tell me you're kidding Smash. No one with the alledged income you have is that ignorant of how credit and debit cards work. I've had garbage men make more intelligent comments on the topic then that. Debit cards are the kinds of things teenagers get because they don't have the credit to even get the secured credit cards. Or what really stupid people get because they think it's the same as a credit card, but doesn't cost them interest to use, and don't realize that it's just another way of writing checks on their account.


No, not really. The whole point here is that you're sacraficing a massive amount of convience for an infintessimally small amount of safety. I assume you actually have credit cards also, but that you don't use them for buying televisions at Sears because you're afraid the cashier is going to steal your information and buy stuff, right?

So, in all likelyhood, you have credit cards, but use checks instead out of fear.

That's what I find funny.

I'm really stupid.

Here I thought I used my debit card because it was a quick and easy way to essentially pay cash for items without always carrying cash with me and without ******** with checks for every purchase.

But it turns out that I'm just really stupid

I may have to spend 5 seconds throwing my junk mail in the bin. On the other hand, I can buy a TV with my debit card!

I must be really stupid too

Seeing your thought process regarding basic daily tasks is astonishing Gbaji

Edited, Tue Nov 9 04:12:55 2004 by Patrician

Going to Sears, choosing a TV, going to the check out, getting stuck at the check out for using antiquated payment methods, and ultimately not being able to buy the TV. That sort of inconvenience.

You're not a rebel, you're a reclusive hermit!
Seriously, there is really no reason to use checks for POS purchases over a debit (or credit?) card. I've had a Visa debit card for my Credit Union account since I was 16 or so, never had any problems with it (other than ISF, d'oh). I only use checks for personal payments, or paying bills by mail (yeah, I know, I can't be bothered to activate electronic payments).
Have you seen the Visa check-card commercials (I think it's Visa) one of which is an old dude buying his son two rabbits, which breed and fill the store with lil' bunnies by the time the cashier gets the check accepted? That's you.

I haven't been a victim of either kind of fraud, but I did have my wallet stolen once.

Called my credit card company and the bank. No problem at all getting my credit card cancelled and reissued, or my ATM/debit card reissued. Had a new one within 24 hours, in fact.

The problem was... cancelling all those checks. And since I didn't have my check register (cause it was, you know, with my checks), I had to kind of guess that the last one the bank had on record was in fact the last one I'd written (and it was, since I don't use checks very often). It wsa expensive, too.

That's the sort of convenience I prefer using cards over checks. I'll deal with the junk mail.

gbaji

Don't hold yer breath waiting for a reasoned rebuttal to your rebuttal.


We'll just have to agree to disagree and accept that you're prepared to argue black's white, have no understanding of how to safely buy the goods you want, and are a complete fu[/i]ckwit when it comes to money. Checks are inconvenient and outdated because they are inconvenient and expensive to process, less safe than Debit or Credit Cards and frankly, a bit 1979. Which one of us stood in a store arguing with an assistant for Fu[i]ck All reason ey?

Mmkay?

PS. Heard about those new LED Watches? KEWEL!!!

I probably had some cash, not enough to worry about. I usually just carry enough for lunch or a round of drinks, whatever.

That just made me laugh out loud in my kiosk, causing 3 cashiers to look at me like I'm one of those crazy homeless guys who talks to himself... definitely worth it if I can keep them away from me

It depends on the bank. I spent 3 years working for the largest bank in the US, and I can say that you'd better have a damned good reason to give them before they'll consider thanking those limits off. We want to keep your money in the bank, so we'll do whatever we can to make it difficult for you to withdraw a large chunk of cash at once. You also need to figure in account type - the "golden" accounts have higher withdrawal limits available to them. The only reason that my ATM card allows me to make the withdrawals that I can is because a coworker set them for me.

Additionally, the updating on the limits usually goes into effect as of the end of the business day - meaning that if you're standing at the register one Sunday afternoon with your bank on your cell phone and trying to change your limit, it won't be in effect until Tuesday morning, since the update was done on Monday's business day. This really sucks when you want cash late Friday night and you're already over your limit.

There's two reasons for this. Account security is one of them; setting a limit on the amount you can take out makes it more difficult to wipe out an account with a stolen ATM card if you've got the PIN, especially if the person needs to make multiple withdrawals over a few days. This gives the account owner the chance to cancel the card and report the theft. Another reason is that withdrawls of anything more than $300 are a pain in the *** to get out of the ATM at times. My withdrawal limit is $800, and when rent time comes around I still make two seperate withdrawals because I've had my money get stuck in the machine.

Just a point Pat. Um... If it had been Smash with his debit card, he'd have been stuck to. Both Checks and Debit cards use the same process. Both are covered directly by your account, and not a 3rd party credit agency. Thus, anything that would block the use of a check would also block the use of a debit card.


I can understand someone arguing for using a credit card. It's not your money at risk, and they are convenient to use. But arguing the use of a debit card over just writing a check is nuts. They both require the same checks from an approval agency (and can be rejected equally). The only difference is that you save maybe 10 seconds of time using the debit card, but a check is a hell of a lot harder for someone to steal and use.

Given the number of times I use checks, it's just not that much of a problem, and the convenience of using a debit or credit card isn't worth it. I use credit cards for travel only. I see no reason to use them for a single purchase from a store 5 miles from my house.

Your spending habits may be different. I certainly know people who use plastic for everything from filling up their tank, to buying groceries, to large purchases. That's great for you. But I don't do things that way. I use cash for everything that it's convenient to use cash for (which is about 90% of what other people would use plastic for). I write checks for everything else. I'm not an impulse buyer, so this works out fine for me.

Not sure why people are making a big deal about this. You need a checking acount anyway, right? Why not make use of it instead of setting up a second method of withdrawing money that's maybe a tiny bit more convenient, but vastly less secure? Doesn't make sense to me.

Whatever. At the very least I got Smash to stop moping about the stupid election for a day or so...