Bogus business practices?Follow

Actually, you can take that limit off by asking the bank.

1) Yes, I was referring to a debit card.

2) As Mr. Capitalism ought to fu[u]cking know...buying on credit and immediately paying the card back is a GREAT way to build credit.

All the **** you talk about the economy is really on unsure footing when you don't know these LITTLE things EVERY idiot knows.

Sigh. I don't need to do that. I have good credit. I own a home (do that sometime, you'd be amazed what it does). I have no need to go through the gyrations of buying something on credit, and then paying it back immediately. It's just an additional hassle.

I'm not sure what your point is. I'm talking about a company which is hired by Sears to verify that when someone writes them a check, that if they accept it, they will get the funds written on the check. That's what Sears pays them to do. Yet, assuming my suspicions are correct, what they are actually doing is using their power in the check approval process to ensure that they are able to mass market to more people then otherwise. Worse, they are doing that to the extent of refusing checks that are prefectly valid, and costing Sears money, in order to improve their mail marketing.

I'm not debating different ways of paying for something. I'm well aware of all the alternatives. I'm simply pointing out the practice I suspect is occuring and asking what people think of that.

You think??!!!one!

If only I'd thought of that back in the '80s!

Oh wait, I did. And so did the rest of the world.

How many people are actually bending over so the powers that be can easily fuck you in the ***? I commend you gbaji, for beating the system so many times. Now are you going to talk to whoever you need to at sears to get one step closer to freedom and liberation?

We clearly have different banking arrangements this side of the pond.

I have Credit Cards and I use those when I want a guarantee on products (They guarantee all my purchases, at home or abroad)

But 9 time from 10 I use my debit cards. They're Chip and PIN so reduced chance of forgery, not credit based; just an alternative means of paying direct from my checking accounts. Exactly the same as a check ('cheque' here, but we're cheese eating surrender monkeys) but no 3rd party. I use em in the states too.

Do they not have Debit Cards in the USA of American Yankee Doodle Uncle Sam?

Oh come now, Smash....we all knew that was the easy answer....

but didn't you want to see Gbaji go to the Nth degree with Sears.

It would have been magical!!!

Heh. We do have debit cards in the US.

Here's the problem, and it may simply have to do with differences in how the different cards were introduced in different countries. You are correct that a credit card is money from a credit agency. Businesses like them because the money is coming from a 3rd party. Banks like them because the moneys coming from a 3rd party. Customers like them because the money is coming from a 3rd party.

Criminals *love* them because the money is coming from a 3rd party, and because of that it's easier to defraud with them. The POS is willing to take them because it's "guaranteed money". Since the money comes from the credit card company first, the customer doesn't have to worry about a thief emptying out his bank acount. He can have his bank refuse payment (or contest the charges himself). The result is that the credit card company itself ends up covering all the fraud expenses. They make this up though in ultra high interest rates on all the morons who maintain credit balances with them, so that works out.

POS have gotten more wary of them in recent years due specifically to credit card agencies being a bit more savvy. If a report of a card comes up stolen in time, they'll block payment of the credit, which puts the burden on the POS (and generally means they're out of the money, since they're the ones who accepted a bogus credit card).


Debit cards are a disaster waiting to happen (at least here in the US). The problem is that customers dont want to be inconvenienced, and the systems are semi-deregulated. What that means is that the POS is considered to be the point of risk in the system. A POS can be as careful or as risky with accepting credit cards and debit cards as they want.

Many places will accept a credit card with no ID required. Some places (specifically online and phone business) will take just a number. Since no one wants to be bothered with two different forms of "card", they tend to use the same systems for all of them. PIN numbers are only needed if the POS requires it. Many dont. Guess what? The criminal who gets ahold of your debit card (or even just the number) knows which places don't check ID, and don't require PIN use. That's where they go. At least with a credit card, you can challenge the charges, and your personal accounts are not affected while the challenge is being considered. With a debit card, the money is taken out of your account first, and then you must convince your bank that you didn't make the purchase and get them to put the money back in. Odds are you'll discover this when you need money for some reason and your account is empty, thus ensuring that you are adversly affected any fraud that occurs.


Any idiot working for minimum wage at a store can get ahold of your credit or debit card number and use it if he wants. Not a whole lot of people go through the trouble of forging checks. Also, while many places do not ID for card use, I've only rarely had any POS not check my ID when I write a check. From the point of view of the consumer, a check is vastly safer in every way.

The very worst case (someone gets ahold of your routing numbers and uses them to buy stuff online or something), is no worse then the risk you take using a debit card. The difference is that it's a hell of a lot easier to get the info you need to commit fraud with a card then with a paper check. Most POS machines actually spit out card info on the reciepts, and make a copy for the business. It's trivially easy for anyone working at a place that accepts cards of any kind to get enough info to steal with them if they want.


Maybe things are different in the UK. But in the US at least, card use is not safer then a check. Not even in the same ballpark.

Gbaji...

This thread has TOTALLY (for reals this time) that you live in some odd fantasy world.

I mean, seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

P.S. Are you on Paxil?

Edited, Mon Nov 8 19:37:16 2004 by pickleprince

All credit cards Smash? At all places? BS. Some places take only MC. Some take only Visa. Some take only Amex. Some will take all, or some of the above. When you walk into a place of business, you are taking pot luck as to what sorts of plastic they accept.

Now maybe you spend all your time at mom and pop places? I have *never* been in any business that I'd need to write a check for (ie: I'm buying something that's at least a few hundred dollars), that has not taken personal checks. Sure. Fast food restaurants, and places that primarily sell stuff under 20 bucks or so will often have POS for Credit/debit cards, but not accept checks. That's not really what we're talking about here. I don't use either at places like that. I use cash. I *only* use checks when I'm buying something relatively expensive. Generally places that sell primarily stuff in that range all take checks. At least I've never seen a department store, or mechanic, or computer store, or any other store that didn't take checks. Almost all of them will have a sign that lists which cards the do and don't take though.


Sorry. I hate playing the "which card to use here" game. The only time I generally use plastic is when I travel. Totally different situation there.

You're correct. I appologize for being unclear.

Let me say that at most places that *I* would chose to either use a check or credit card rather then cash, more places accept a personal check then any one specific brand of credit card.

Hows that?

The point is that I don't want to deal with the hassle of paying with a card, and then having to pay it a second time when the bill comes in. I'd much rather just write them a check and be done with it. It's just like handing them cash. My argument is that the only concern the POS should have about accepting a check is whether or not it will clear with the bank. The approval place said that the issue was not with funds or account history (ie: the check *would* clear if accepted). Therefore *they* had a different set of priorities that have nothing to do with whether the check will clear.


That's what has me wondering is all.

Yeah, not anymore.