For the most part I would call it a tie.
Kerry did have a stronger finishing, the way he wrapped it up and the end was nice. But definitely not the strong showing that he had in the 1st and 2nd debate.
Kerry stumbled, and you kept hearing the same rhetoric over and over. You could see him slipping into his mass. accent with Idear.
Bush much better with his speaking, made some slip ups like the 75% figures on al-qaeda, the statement that Pikko quoted on Osama, the whole litmus thing, but for the most part pretty solid.
So I agree with Joph.
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Debate threadFollow
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Pikko Pots wrote:
Well, I wasn't posting about consistency or inconsistency on the issue. I posted it to show he did say it.
Heh. Not to be **** or sidetrack the topic at hand, but....
Bush wrote:
Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations.
Bush wrote:
And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him
You're equating "Not that concerned with him", and "Not worried about him". So no. He did not say it.
Not to be picky or anything, but the "that" in the first quote denotes degree, not absolutism. Saying he's not that concerned means that he is concerned, just not to as high a degree as some other things (which he listed in the quote).
Kinda like the difference between saying: "I have not had that much sex", and "I have not had sex". One's not even close to the other...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
What about, "I gotta pahk the cah by the cub. Do you have a quawtah fa the metah Wicked pissah! Youse guys all outta change!?"
Not a single "R" to be heard...
Totem
Not a single "R" to be heard...
Totem
Totem, You are going to start attacking Kerry for slipping a couple times and saying "Idear". Have you listened to Bush for the last 4 year?
I thought you would pick up on something worth critizing but maybe i misunderestimated you.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 22:40:50 2004 by bhodisattva
I thought you would pick up on something worth critizing but maybe i misunderestimated you.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 22:40:50 2004 by bhodisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
gbaji wrote:
Pikko Pots wrote:
Well, I wasn't posting about consistency or inconsistency on the issue. I posted it to show he did say it.
Heh. Not to be **** or sidetrack the topic at hand, but....
Bush wrote:
Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations.
Bush wrote:
And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him
You're equating "Not that concerned with him", and "Not worried about him". So no. He did not say it.
OH DEAR SWEET GOD.
Gbaji,
BUSH was the one that changed the word from "not that concerned" to "not worried." Kerry didn't change the words around. Bush did.
You spin like a record...
anyone got the results yet? It seemed Kerry could have been a lot stronger, but Bush did do a bit better. Both repeated themselves many times, but Bush was on the defensive most of the time. It was all statistics
Biggest bumble of the debates was Kerry using Cheney's daughter as a gay marriage example.
Totem wrote:
What about, "I gotta pahk the cah by the cub. Do you have a quawtah fa the metah Wicked pissah! Youse guys all outta change!?"
Not a single "R" to be heard...
Totem
Not a single "R" to be heard...
Totem
R's get turned into ah's, and ah's get turned into R's.
got the results on MSNBC 80-20 in Kerry's favor almost 180,000 votes so far...
Heheh, bhodi, after hearing for four years about Bushisms and strategery, it's sweet, sweet opportunity to pounce on something that sounds like Farmer Yokel from the turnip farm trying to describe the brainstorm he came up with to turn compost into gasoline or something.
Lol, I truthfully never expected to hear such lowbrow pronunciations from Mr. Hoity-toity. "I gots an idear! <Hyuck hyuck!>"
Totem
Lol, I truthfully never expected to hear such lowbrow pronunciations from Mr. Hoity-toity. "I gots an idear! <Hyuck hyuck!>"
Totem
It was closer than last time but I still say Kerry won it.
Edit: one/won what am I an idiot?
Edited, Wed Oct 13 22:56:28 2004 by GitSlayer
Edit: one/won what am I an idiot?
Edited, Wed Oct 13 22:56:28 2004 by GitSlayer
Bush was on the defensive, he seemed more confident this time, dropped some new power words "litany","retreat and defeat" and some ole favs such as "freedom" "evil men", "litmus tests".
He didnt have that dogged, angry tone that he had in the second debate. But he did have the smirk and creepy chuckle. On the plus side he did have the better tie.
Kerry stumbled made some errors weak on social security,the promise to raise minimum wage is nice and all but will be hard, some will say it hurts small business the worst but in the end mcdonalds and places like that will feel the worst of it, he used Jazz hands while talking about thumb prints, and truth standard what is that? Bush missed calling him on that.
Over all Bush did much better than the last two times and Kerry did worse and it came out as a tie. That should speak volumes in itself.
He didnt have that dogged, angry tone that he had in the second debate. But he did have the smirk and creepy chuckle. On the plus side he did have the better tie.
Kerry stumbled made some errors weak on social security,the promise to raise minimum wage is nice and all but will be hard, some will say it hurts small business the worst but in the end mcdonalds and places like that will feel the worst of it, he used Jazz hands while talking about thumb prints, and truth standard what is that? Bush missed calling him on that.
Over all Bush did much better than the last two times and Kerry did worse and it came out as a tie. That should speak volumes in itself.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Kerry owned his but.
and he did it with a very respectfull demeaner.
i will give Bush some credit, this was by far his best effort. but Kerry has a plan, and Bush doesnt think there needs to be one. that is what i saw.
i am not a big Kerry supporter, but his performance in these debates has left an impression on me. a presidential impression.
i will be both an ABB voter, and a Kerry supporter on nov 2nd because of them.
and he did it with a very respectfull demeaner.
i will give Bush some credit, this was by far his best effort. but Kerry has a plan, and Bush doesnt think there needs to be one. that is what i saw.
i am not a big Kerry supporter, but his performance in these debates has left an impression on me. a presidential impression.
i will be both an ABB voter, and a Kerry supporter on nov 2nd because of them.
Ok, out of deference to bhodi I will make an appraisal of this debate. Assuming that after the first five minutes it becomes all white noise for the most part and impressions are what remain, and give the first two debates to Kerry, then his poorer performance in this final debate and Bush's stronger performance become the equivilent of having the last word.
Thus, Bush wins the battle of the debates even though he only "won" one. Disagree with this analysis of the whole she-bang, but in any argument the person who gets the winning shot in last wins-- if for no other reason than this is what people remember next week.
Totem
Thus, Bush wins the battle of the debates even though he only "won" one. Disagree with this analysis of the whole she-bang, but in any argument the person who gets the winning shot in last wins-- if for no other reason than this is what people remember next week.
Totem
I would argue that it was at best a tie for Bush.
I also think if you compare the two closing statements Kerry came across much, much stronger than Bush. To say that Bush got the last word in and therefore he takes the game is foolish, and could also be construed as a grasping at straws for victory.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 23:06:45 2004 by bhodisattva
I also think if you compare the two closing statements Kerry came across much, much stronger than Bush. To say that Bush got the last word in and therefore he takes the game is foolish, and could also be construed as a grasping at straws for victory.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 23:06:45 2004 by bhodisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
I dunno if I agree with the Kerry owning Bush thing. He could have done much better.
Overall effect on me personally from the three debates is that Kerry seems more presidential than before, which has turned me from strictly ABB to Kerry supporter.
/gone home
Overall effect on me personally from the three debates is that Kerry seems more presidential than before, which has turned me from strictly ABB to Kerry supporter.
/gone home
Perhaps, bhodi.
But measured against the expected Bush poor showing and Kerry supremacy, it by some perverse logic becomes a win when Bush does considerably better and Kerry deflates in the final round. I grant you this line of reasoning can clearly be seen as spinning, but when you think about how the vast majority of Americans look at the candidate's attitude, demeanor, and his carriage of the debate as a whole (for example, the perception that Bush was very defensive and nervous in the first debate) and not content, then running out of steam in the third of three debates appears to be weakness.
Totem
But measured against the expected Bush poor showing and Kerry supremacy, it by some perverse logic becomes a win when Bush does considerably better and Kerry deflates in the final round. I grant you this line of reasoning can clearly be seen as spinning, but when you think about how the vast majority of Americans look at the candidate's attitude, demeanor, and his carriage of the debate as a whole (for example, the perception that Bush was very defensive and nervous in the first debate) and not content, then running out of steam in the third of three debates appears to be weakness.
Totem
Quote:
He spoke it like he was reading from cue cards that were being turned by a elderly sloth. Every time the card got turned though, he rushed through the line like a meth addict.
Agreed. Kerry landed the final speech which was very heartfelt. Bush's felt strained and a little timid. Not a good sign for someone who's touted as the more outgoing person of the two.
I give the debate to Kerry, but by the slimest of margins.
Neither broke any new ground.
Gadin
Well put any spin you want on it, if claiming a tie as a "victory" makes you feel better about the previous two losses then so be it.
Edit -I call it a tie. But Gadin does have it right, Kerry nailed the final wrap up and Bush's paled in comparison. If Kerry's wrap up had lacked I might have even given it to Bush, but damn that was sweet.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 23:28:44 2004 by bhodisattva
Edit -I call it a tie. But Gadin does have it right, Kerry nailed the final wrap up and Bush's paled in comparison. If Kerry's wrap up had lacked I might have even given it to Bush, but damn that was sweet.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 23:28:44 2004 by bhodisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Warlord Lefein wrote:
In the business world, your first three years are critical. Many if not most businesses operate at a loss in their first two years. Yeah, a dollar or two doesnt sound like much to you or me, but we dont run businesses. It's not easy.
If you are paying your employees minimum wage in the first place then you should go to hell.
Is the full debate anywhere? All msn has is short clips.
Fell asleep
Fell asleep
Give it a day or two and it should be on CSPAN website. They have both the 1st and 2nd debates in there entirety for watching as well as the VP debate.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 23:30:51 2004 by bhodisattva
Edited, Wed Oct 13 23:30:51 2004 by bhodisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
I really am not trying to spin this for you, but just providing an explanation of how I suspect most non-politicos will view this whole debate thing.
And really, just how many true undecided are there? Five? And they are only undecided because they live in the Ozarks and just made their first trip into town for supplies in the last two years. They weren't even aware of who the Democratic candidate was until tonight.
Everybody's made up their mind, but some folks are just being coy about it.
Totem
And really, just how many true undecided are there? Five? And they are only undecided because they live in the Ozarks and just made their first trip into town for supplies in the last two years. They weren't even aware of who the Democratic candidate was until tonight.
Everybody's made up their mind, but some folks are just being coy about it.
Totem
I think it can only hope Kerry. Most people didnt know him and where he stood on the issues. He came out talked the talk, defeated George "never lost a debate" Bush, cleared the air on some of the issues, knew his numbers, and as Pikko stated gave the air of a president.
It let people know where he stood, and let them know the man. It also showed especially in the 2nd debate Kerry pretty much pwning Bush on the issues.
Kerry's strong showing in the debates has helped boost him in the polls, a tie in the 3rd will not invalidate the first two debates or the ground he gained.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 23:36:42 2004 by bhodisattva
It let people know where he stood, and let them know the man. It also showed especially in the 2nd debate Kerry pretty much pwning Bush on the issues.
Kerry's strong showing in the debates has helped boost him in the polls, a tie in the 3rd will not invalidate the first two debates or the ground he gained.
Edited, Wed Oct 13 23:36:42 2004 by bhodisattva
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
I watched ABC again, and the poll that they broadcasted at the end of the debate was:
Kerry: 42%
Bush: 41%
Tie: 14%
In my opinion, Bush made some good headway in this debate. Things are a little more in his favor now than before the debate, and I think it's gonna be a hectic few weeks as the candidates run across the country.
I especially liked it when Kerry, almost pleading, said that his health care plan was not a government plan. Even though it would be instituted by... the government. Desperation much?
Twiztid
Kerry: 42%
Bush: 41%
Tie: 14%
In my opinion, Bush made some good headway in this debate. Things are a little more in his favor now than before the debate, and I think it's gonna be a hectic few weeks as the candidates run across the country.
I especially liked it when Kerry, almost pleading, said that his health care plan was not a government plan. Even though it would be instituted by... the government. Desperation much?
Twiztid
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
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