I just finished watching the debate on the BBC link and noticed that the camera's never panned to show Kerry's facial expression when GWB was speaking, but the camera would pan at least once for a close up of Bush while Kerry was flapping his gums. And how many times did Kerry have to say 5 Million with out health care? I think after the first 5 times the audience would have got the hint.
Bush did a great job. If you did not get any of the jokes he made, you people really need to get out of your parents basement and get some sun. Bush cleaned Kerry's clock on a lot of the issues, and I did not see the big deal about Bush wanting to ensure he got the opportunity to respond. George showed strength and leadership. The man still has my vote.
Totem, you've met Smasharoo haven't you? Did you hear his Boston Accent? Where he'll pawk his caw in Hawvard yawd to see the Sox beat the Yankees. If Kerry hadn't lost his accent we would really be having a laugh at the way JFK II speaks.
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Smash is secretly ashamed of his Bostonian heritage. He affects an Ozarkian accent where he pretends to hail from Hope, Arkansas.
Totem
Totem
Latest polls regarding the last debate put Kerry just ahead of Bush. Fox News just showed Kerry at 44% and Bush at 41%, but the margin of error allows it to be dead even.
Yes, I have never been to the south. The farthest east I've traveled is Nevada. But while I didn't know that Missoura is considered a term of endearment, I think there are a lot of other people out there like me that didn't know, but aren't being educated about it on some forum.
And while there is an Internet2, are people going to care?
Maybe Bushisms don't mean anything to Bush supporters, but I care about the President's laughingstock "rating". Bush doesn't get the level of respect a man in his office should and that's something I care about.
I did comment about his stance on abortion, but I guess my misspeak rants were all people read.
And while there is an Internet2, are people going to care?
Maybe Bushisms don't mean anything to Bush supporters, but I care about the President's laughingstock "rating". Bush doesn't get the level of respect a man in his office should and that's something I care about.
I did comment about his stance on abortion, but I guess my misspeak rants were all people read.
Pikko you aren't the only jumping on the "Bushisms" band wagon trying to make the leader of the free world into a babbling baboon. If the only litmus test that you use to vote for a person is his speaking ability then you don't need to be voting. The debate was in Missoura, and GWB used the phrase to show that he was "in tune" as to where he was in the country.
Kerry misspoke quite a few times last night as well, but you don't see Republicans or Conservatives screaming at Liberals because Kerry can't string sentences together either.
Kerry misspoke quite a few times last night as well, but you don't see Republicans or Conservatives screaming at Liberals because Kerry can't string sentences together either.
Pikko, disagree with Bush on abortion, fine. At least he is consistent with where he stands on the issue. He is against it except when the life of the mother is in danger.
Kerry, to an anti-abortionist's way of thinking, is inconsistent in that he says he believe abortion is wrong (implying it is murder as a Catholic), but unwilling to enact change to prevent just that: murder. He is essence is saying that a grievious wrong is being done, but he's for a woman's right to commit murder. How much better it would be if he just said he thinks abortion is fine because a baby isn't human until birth, thus it isn't murder, regardless of the science-- or lack of it --behind such a statement. But he doesn't, which leaves a voter like me believing he isn't a man of his convictions, a very damning offense.
You see, this gets to the heart of this discussion: I can respect someone like Smash's opinions on something because he makes no bones about he is an atheist, wherein he is is his own god, thus he makes up his own rules. I believe that's wrong, but I respect it, because it's consistent. Kerry claims to be Catholic, (a religion I have tremendous admiration for even though I am not one) but doesn't act in accordance with his stated beliefs. Furthermore, it becomes pandering of the worst kind because it trivializes the value of the human life he claims to believe is sacred for the sake of getting votes.
You and I can agree to disagree if you believe abortion is your right, but only if you can honestly say that baby isn't human, thus possesing the same rights as you and I.
Totem
Kerry, to an anti-abortionist's way of thinking, is inconsistent in that he says he believe abortion is wrong (implying it is murder as a Catholic), but unwilling to enact change to prevent just that: murder. He is essence is saying that a grievious wrong is being done, but he's for a woman's right to commit murder. How much better it would be if he just said he thinks abortion is fine because a baby isn't human until birth, thus it isn't murder, regardless of the science-- or lack of it --behind such a statement. But he doesn't, which leaves a voter like me believing he isn't a man of his convictions, a very damning offense.
You see, this gets to the heart of this discussion: I can respect someone like Smash's opinions on something because he makes no bones about he is an atheist, wherein he is is his own god, thus he makes up his own rules. I believe that's wrong, but I respect it, because it's consistent. Kerry claims to be Catholic, (a religion I have tremendous admiration for even though I am not one) but doesn't act in accordance with his stated beliefs. Furthermore, it becomes pandering of the worst kind because it trivializes the value of the human life he claims to believe is sacred for the sake of getting votes.
You and I can agree to disagree if you believe abortion is your right, but only if you can honestly say that baby isn't human, thus possesing the same rights as you and I.
Totem
Quote:
Kerry, to an anti-abortionist's way of thinking, is inconsistent in that he says he believe abortion is wrong (implying it is murder as a Catholic), but unwilling to enact change to prevent just that: murder. He is essence is saying that a grievious wrong is being done, but he's for a woman's right to commit murder. How much better it would be if he just said he thinks abortion is fine because a baby isn't human until birth, thus it isn't murder, regardless of the science-- or lack of it --behind such a statement. But he doesn't, which leaves a voter like me believing he isn't a man of his convictions, a very damning offense.
I think you're misunderestimating him (what, if Bush can use it, AND try to take a crack at a slip-up Kerry had, then I can use it too).
What I gathered from his explanation is although he doesn't believe in abortions, he can't let his personal beliefs get in the way of something that is the only hope we have at finding a cure for "Micheal J. Fox-itus" and other muscle related ailments.
Just like his answer about "Who would you appoint as Judge?" He said he'd want an interpreter of the constitution, and not somebody that would let his personal beliefs get in the way of something that benefits America as a whole.
I bet Kerry loves Mulattos. He seems like a "let's all become one" kind of guy.
Therein lies the problem, Skeet. Kerry's unwillingness to act on his personal beliefs suggests, to those of us who will not vote for him, that he lacks the courage of his convictions. While I suppose you can say it means he is open to all beliefs and better encompasses all views, I myself look for definitive stands on particular issues that are important to me.
Totem
Totem
Quote:
Therein lies the problem, Skeet. Kerry's unwillingness to act on his personal beliefs suggests, to those of us who will not vote for him, that he lacks the courage of his convictions. While I suppose you can say it means he is open to all beliefs and better encompasses all views, I myself look for definitive stands on particular issues that are important to me.
There you go misunderestimating again.
I see it more of the ability to take everybody's beliefs into consideration, including his own, instead of sticking to your convictions no matter what, even if they're wrong.
Yeah Kerry has many views, but it's better than having only onewhich happens to be the wrong one.
I bet Bush is still trying to cram that square piece into the circle hole. I mean, if you stick with something long enough, eventually it will be the right thing, right?
Right??
Kerry believes in communion too but that doesn't mean he can force it down the rest of America's face.
He may think abortion is wrong but 50% of America disagrees. I don't want someone in office who is going to force his religious views onto me.
Bush has his convictions. So much so that he can never, ever even admit he is wrong. This is your leader?
--DK
PS Totem--you're not really gonna vote this guy, are you?
He may think abortion is wrong but 50% of America disagrees. I don't want someone in office who is going to force his religious views onto me.
Bush has his convictions. So much so that he can never, ever even admit he is wrong. This is your leader?
--DK
PS Totem--you're not really gonna vote this guy, are you?
Wheres clinton when you need him? Anyway, today MSNBC has polls of 62, 38 in Kerry's favor but CNN has 55, 43, 2 (evenly matched) in Bush's favor? WAIT where did this come from? Wasnt Kerry winning by a landslide yesterday...I think Bush is stronger, but Kerry is more prepared as we can see in debates (well some of us)
Yes, Jojo is 13. Stop spanking your monkey thinking of her.
Totem
Totem
There goes the Bush way.
Uh-oh, people are making valid arguments... I better change the subject!
/nudge nudge
Tee-hee.
Skeet wrote:
I better change the subject!
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Angels choked.
They so could have had that game in the bag.
They so could have had that game in the bag.
Are you kidding me? Jojo is hot enough to make Gbaji jump in the neighborhood pool and bang the nearest prepubescent female...
Totem
Totem
Quote:
Are you kidding me? Jojo is hot enough to make Gbaji jump in the neighborhood pool and bang the nearest prepubescent female...
You act like he even waits for an excuse to do that.
Yeah, stranding three on and one out. That sucked major red a$$ed babboon balls.
Totem
Totem
Totem wrote:
Pikko, disagree with Bush on abortion, fine. At least he is consistent with where he stands on the issue. He is against it except when the life of the mother is in danger.
If Bush is pro-choice if the mother's life is in danger, then why did he sign the Partial-Birth* Abortion Ban, which did not include provisions for the life of the mother? The official medical term of this 'normalized' procedure is a "D&X" Abortion - Dilation and Extraction, a very rare procedure in the first place.
Totem wrote:
Kerry, to an anti-abortionist's way of thinking, is inconsistent in that he says he believe abortion is wrong (implying it is murder as a Catholic), but unwilling to enact change to prevent just that: murder. He is in essence saying that a grievious wrong is being done, but he's for a woman's right to commit murder.
You're jumping to conclusions by assuming that his religious convictions shape his philosophical views.
I also discern that you believe a political candidate's positions should be directly consistent with his or her faith. Am I wrong? (This is not a gotcha question.) Because frankly, I believe John Kerry more likely came to terms with his philosophy on abortion and many other things independent of his faith.
Edited, Sat Oct 9 18:29:00 2004 by Zoelef
Totem wrote:
While I suppose you can say it means he is open to all beliefs and better encompasses all views, I myself look for definitive stands on particular issues that are important to me.
Ramming your beliefs down others peoples throats... hmmm what other group do we know that does that. Infidels!
Quote:
lib·er·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
adj.
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
So all Liberal's have no conviction since they don't condemn other peoples beliefs. Right, that's what I was thinking too.
Zoe, yes, he signed the partial birth abortion bill because he believes that entire procedure is wrong. I agree with him.
And I suppose I am jumping to conclusions by assuming Kerry's religious faith drives his philosophical ideology, but there again, to my eyes if your faith has no force of conviction behind it resulting in modified behavior, it's not much of a faith. It becomes more a list of nice things to admire. It would make him a nominal or lapsed Catholic at best, an opportunist at worst.
Personally, I'd like to think he still holds to his beliefs, but faith without action just isn't faith.
Totem
And I suppose I am jumping to conclusions by assuming Kerry's religious faith drives his philosophical ideology, but there again, to my eyes if your faith has no force of conviction behind it resulting in modified behavior, it's not much of a faith. It becomes more a list of nice things to admire. It would make him a nominal or lapsed Catholic at best, an opportunist at worst.
Personally, I'd like to think he still holds to his beliefs, but faith without action just isn't faith.
Totem
Quote:
Personally, I'd like to think he still holds to his beliefs, but faith without action just isn't faith.
King Richard the Lionhearted thought so too. Are you suggesting that the crusades were a good idea?
Edited, Sat Oct 9 21:45:58 2004 by Lubriderm
Quote:
Personally, I'd like to think he still holds to his beliefs, but faith without action just isn't faith.
I suppose you are right, at the heart of it, god is the problem again. Faith with action is fuc[b][/b]king dangerous, and it scares the hell out of me. "God told me to do it". Don't blame me, "It's Gods will".
You aren't so different from our Muslim friends are you Totem. Mohamed Atta had faith, and he performed an action, good for him.
I prefer the christian who abide by tolerance and reason, not faith.
Totem, I prefer 'Zoel' versus 'Zoe' with me being a manly male and whatnot.
That being said, he Bible precedes 'medical' abortion by hundreds of years. ...I still say Sen. Kerry's position on abortion does not imply that he has a lack of faith due to both the moral sensitivity (esp. if the life of the mother is at risk) of the issue and the lack of its inclusion in the founding priniciples of Catholicism. A religion that mandates all its followers to have the same moral compass isn't a religion, it's a cult.
But that's another thread, and I really have to go back in-game and make me some pie.
That being said, he Bible precedes 'medical' abortion by hundreds of years. ...I still say Sen. Kerry's position on abortion does not imply that he has a lack of faith due to both the moral sensitivity (esp. if the life of the mother is at risk) of the issue and the lack of its inclusion in the founding priniciples of Catholicism. A religion that mandates all its followers to have the same moral compass isn't a religion, it's a cult.
But that's another thread, and I really have to go back in-game and make me some pie.
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