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Communism good right?Follow

#1 Oct 07 2004 at 9:28 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
The Gulag system was a network of forced labor camps that, at its peak, consisted of over four hundred official prisons and held millions of inmates. First begun in 1919, the system really did not flourish until the 1930’s when Stalin used it with extreme regularity. The Gulag system is believed to be responsible for millions of deaths. That is more than the amount of Americans that have been killed in all wars combined. That amounts to almost three times the amount of people that live in the New York City area. It is truly a gruesome part of Soviet history that has routinely been overlooked or ignored.



http://msms.essortment.com/historyrussiag_rfpb.htm

Varus
#2 Oct 07 2004 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Communism is a wondrous thing. Just ask Dracoid!
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#3 Oct 07 2004 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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And everyone knows that "the Gulag System" was a central tenet of Marx and Engels' teachings.
#4 Oct 07 2004 at 9:48 AM Rating: Default
Well it was Marx and Engels that provided the framework for what would become Russian communism and led to the murder of millions of Russians. Whereas Adam Smith provided the framework for modern capitalism and has fostered the growth of the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. You do the math.

Varus
#5 Oct 07 2004 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Beyond Dracoid, who the hell was arguing that communism was good?

Wait.. let me find a link saying that you shouldn't fall out of trees. I want to start a new thread.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#6 Oct 07 2004 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Beyond Dracoid, who the hell was arguing that communism was good?

Wait.. let me find a link saying that you shouldn't fall out of trees. I want to start a new thread.

Joph, don't you understand? Because some of us like the concept of universal health care that automatically makes us in favor of gulag systems and long bread lines too.
#7 Oct 07 2004 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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As I've pointed out before, the early Christian church headed by Peter (who was personally chosen by Jesus to lead the Church on earth) was communist. Anyone who'd call themselves a true Christian would have to agree that either communism is a good idea at times or else that the Son of God didn't know what he was doing when he picked Peter.

Of course, Varrus is the sort of "Christian" who condemns homosexuality but enjoys bragging about all the sex he's had outside the bounds of holy matrimony.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 Oct 07 2004 at 10:10 AM Rating: Default
Jophed,

You Satanist. I don't condemn homosexuality the Bible actual describes it as an abomination. Yes I believe in the Bible so if that makes me the bad guy I can live with that. And can you please show me the biblical passage that strictly says that men can't have sex outside of marriage? Just because you're part of that Ca ilk that thinks everything is ok doesn't make it so.

Varus
#9 Oct 07 2004 at 10:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Well it was Marx and Engels that provided the framework for what would become Russian communism and led to the murder of millions of Russians. Whereas Adam Smith provided the framework for modern capitalism and has fostered the growth of the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. You do the math.


I find it hard to believe that if Stalin had become leader of a capitalist country he would have suddenly decided to hand out flowers instead.
#10 Oct 07 2004 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
Lubi,

Quote:
Joph, don't you understand? Because some of us like the concept of universal health care


What do you call someone who steals something from someone else to give it to another? I call them a thief. And yes you are a communist if you believe someone else should pay for the welfar of another individual.

Lubi explain to me again why I should be forced to pay for the health care of a bum who doesn't work? I'm all for charity but it's not charity if it's forcably taken from you.

Varus
#11 Oct 07 2004 at 10:16 AM Rating: Default
Dan,

Quote:
I find it hard to believe that if Stalin had become leader of a capitalist country he would have suddenly decided to hand out flowers instead.


We'll never know but we do know he picked communism and millions upon millions died for it.

Varus
#12 Oct 07 2004 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
Varus,

Not that this should be surprise to you but you're going to get spanked on that sex out of marriage thing.

It says so explicitly in the bible SEVERAL times.

Joph's just digging out his concordance and smiling as as he does it.


On the Gulag note, I believe that Lenin actually spent some time in one of them.

Edited, Thu Oct 7 11:20:17 2004 by pickleprince
#13 Oct 07 2004 at 10:19 AM Rating: Default
Pickled,

Enligthen me as to which passages they are

Varus
#14 Oct 07 2004 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
varrussword wrote:
Lubi,

Quote:
Joph, don't you understand? Because some of us like the concept of universal health care


What do you call someone who steals something from someone else to give it to another? I call them a thief. And yes you are a communist if you believe someone else should pay for the welfar of another individual.

Lubi explain to me again why I should be forced to pay for the health care of a bum who doesn't work? I'm all for charity but it's not charity if it's forcably taken from you.

Varus

Because it's the right thing to do. I wont even begin to try explaining that concept to you. You have already made your point on several occaisions that greed is the driving factor behind many of your political decisions.
#15 Oct 07 2004 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
As I've pointed out before, the early Christian church headed by Peter (who was personally chosen by Jesus to lead the Church on earth) was communist. Anyone who'd call themselves a true Christian would have to agree that either communism is a good idea at times or else that the Son of God didn't know what he was doing when he picked Peter.

Hehe I got kicked out of high school once for saying that. I grew up in Salt Lake City which as you all know has a high concentration of Mormons. I gave my end of semester report in Current Events on a comparison between the Mormon religion and Communism. Got an A on the report and free ticket home for a few weeks.
#16 Oct 07 2004 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
1 Corinthians 6:18-20 & 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."

#17 Oct 07 2004 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
We'll never know but we do know he picked communism and millions upon millions died for it.

Varus


So what are you saying now? That Stalin chose communism because he was evil, or that, because he chose communism, he became evil?
#18 Oct 07 2004 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
varrussword wrote:
Pickled,

Enligthen me as to which passages they are

Varus


Very well...

A straightforward scripture related to sex outside of marriage is -

Quote:
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 7:2 - NKJV


You then get a pretty good idea of the view presented in the New Testament about sex outside of marriage by putting that verse alongside this scripture portion -

Quote:
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 - NKJV


Quote:
"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people." (Ephesians 5:3)


So we are commanded to flee from sexual immorality and not allow even a hint of sexual immorality in our lives. These are strong words, so it is important that we make the right decision about whether or not premarital sex is included in "sexual immorality." In Genesis 2:24 God said that when a husband and wife are united, they become "one flesh." This is proper within marriage, but in 1 Corinthians 6:16 (above) the apostle Paul said that if a man unites himself with a prostitute then "The two will become one flesh." In that context, this is clearly a sin. Paul used prostitutes as an example, but we can see from 1 Corinthians 6:15-17 (above) and Genesis 2:24 that when we unite ourselves sexually with someone else then we become "one flesh" with that person. In the Bible, the only time that it is acceptable to be "one flesh" with someone is when you are married to that person. The implication from all of this is that premarital sex is a sin.

Now notice how strongly God condemns sexual immorality:


Quote:
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)


Quote:
"We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died." (1 Corinthians 10:8)


Quote:
"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." (Hebrews 13:4)


Quote:
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)


These passages say that the "sexually immoral" will not inherit the kingdom of God, but instead they will be judged and will be sent to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. Christians will not be sent to the fiery lake of burning sulfur, but the above passages give us a very clear idea of the heart of God concerning sexual immorality. God has a strong view of any kind of immorality, so if we are going to err then we should try to err on the side of purity.For example, the apostle Paul said that the Church is going to be presented as a pure virgin bride to Christ:


"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him." (2 Corinthians 11:2)

This indicates that purity and virginity are highly valued before marriage in Scripture. Premarital sex takes away that purity and virginity. For those who have already lost that purity before marriage, however, God is willing to forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). As Christian recording artist Rebecca St. James says, if we have made the mistake of having sex before marriage then we can repent and give our sexuality back to God and become "recycled virgins." As I see it, the idea of being a "recycled virgin" means that we have received forgiveness from God, and we are now keeping ourselves pure for marriage without having premarital sex anymore (just like a virgin).

Notice that the apostle Paul said that if single people cannot control their sexual desires then they should get married:


"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9)

This passage says that if unmarried people are not able to be celibate (as Paul was) and they find themselves burning with sexual desire, then they should get married so that they don't commit sexual sins. The implication is that sex is only valid within marriage, as the following passage also indicates:


"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman [or, "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman," according to the NIV footnote]. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." (1 Corinthians 7:1-2, KJV)

Notice that immediately after mentioning sexual relations, Paul said that people should get married in order to avoid fornication. The context indicates that people should get married in order to avoid the sin of having sex outside of marriage. Then in the very next passage, Paul called sex a "marital duty":


"The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife." (1 Corinthians 7:3-4)

Again, Paul's message is that sex belongs within marriage. The above passage says that it is a marital duty (and privilege), and Paul has already said that being married helps people avoid "fornication" (which in the context implies premarital sex).

Finally, notice that Paul said that a man should treat older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity:


"Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity." (1 Timothy 5:1-2)

Since single men are told to treat single women as their mothers or sisters, that pretty much rules out premarital sex! Notice that marriage is allowed in the New Testament, which means that at the appropriate time a man can stop treating a girl as his sister and begin treating her as his wife. Until that point, however, he is told to treat her as his sister with absolute purity, which would imply that he cannot have premarital sex with her.



Conclusion

For all of the above reasons, I don't see how we can escape the conclusion that premarital sex is a sin. Sexual immorality of any kind is harshly condemned in the New Testament, so I would recommend following the path of purity before marriage. If you have made the mistake of having sex before marriage, forgiveness and restoration are only a prayer away. You can become a "recycled virgin" (as Rebecca St. James says) and then begin saving yourself for your future spouse.


Smiley: lol Happy now, sinner!?!?





Edited, Thu Oct 7 11:36:03 2004 by pickleprince
#19 Oct 07 2004 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Ephesians 5:31 - NKJV

For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God

1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 - NKJV

I'm not saying it's how anyone has to lead their life. But if you are going to thump the bible for one issue, you should lead a nice christian life yourself.
#20 Oct 07 2004 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
So if i think up a political ideology, and you beleive in it, but you start throwing people down salt mines and shooting millions to put it into practice, then i'm in the wrong? This comes back down to boondocks stupid argument about the separation of marxist ideology and soviet practice.

Quote:
I don't condemn homosexuality the Bible actual describes it as an abomination.


ROFL "i'm a perfect christian, i don't condemn homosexuality even though the bible says i should" LOL
#21 Oct 07 2004 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral -- Hebrews 13:4 (NIV)

It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. -- I Corinthians 7:1b-2 (NIV)

Huh. A passage saying that all those who have sex outside of the marriage bed will be judged by God. And Paul saying that man should marry rather than burn with lust (he says the same to young widows). Funny how he doesn't teach to just go out and have wild monkey sex with other Christians.

Not that I believe for a moment that you're really a Christian or that you know anything about the Good Book beyond some stock anti-gay passages but I'd hate to be so lame as to resort to "don't trust anything I say until you look it up yourself".

Edit: Code error

Edited, Thu Oct 7 11:32:46 2004 by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22 Oct 07 2004 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ha! Looks like you folks beat me to it as my online Bible was acting up.

Funny how Varrus didn't mention the Communist Church in Acts at all. Notice how he avoids the things he can't defend?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#23 Oct 07 2004 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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varrussword wrote:
Jophed,

And can you please show me the biblical passage that strictly says that men can't have sex outside of marriage?
Varus


Matt 5:27
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."


Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 7:2 - NKJV



Even google knows it's a sin varus. Smiley: disappointed
#24 Oct 07 2004 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
Don't worry, varus. Based on the passages we dug up, you can probably still ********** (not as if you were doing much of anything else, anyways).
#25REDACTED, Posted: Oct 07 2004 at 10:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#26 Oct 07 2004 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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What the **** does that passage say over communism? Communism in the USSR was just a dictatorship. You didnt call Irak a democracy because they had president Saddam didnt you?
Anyways communism is a fine and utopian like theorie but wouldnt ever work because everyone wants to get the material stuff they worked for. If everyone gets the same regardless of their job everybody gets as lazy as possible. It's just not human nature.
Catpilism wasn't "invited" but "discovered" like electricity. Trade exists since the dawn of mankind and thus do the supply > demand rule.

/edit lol now i see this thread went offtopic half way!


Edited, Thu Oct 7 11:51:37 2004 by Sjans
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