More poker.Follow

A kill game is a game where if one player wins two pots in a row he pays a forced blind double the normal blind and the stakes are doubled for the whole hand.

So the hand really played like a $1/$2 hand.

So the stakes are doubled, and you big blind automatically? What if it was slotted to be your BB anyways?

You just pay a double BB. Same as if you weren't BB. So there'd be half a bet missing from the pot.

What would you say the lowest limit tables at UB that people don't be like jackals? I need to throw away some money to work on strategy, but I really can't afford too much.

Smash-- Just joined Ultimate, will refer you once I put some money down, but how do I search for you to watch you make your poker magic on Ultimate?

--DK

I am entering a tourney in Seabrook NH this friday. First place is atleast 5000$. No limit Texas hold'em is the best game. I will post a link after I win =P. next year I am entering a WPT event with a 1000$ buy in, it's gonna be sweet. Have to put like 20$ a week away till then.

Whats to stop someone from saying you referred them, collecting 25 bucks extra + you getting 50, then cashing out for $75 total? You must be required to use those credits right?

Playing on .5/$1

First hand, I'm BB

#Game No : 1029222299
***** Hand History for Game 1029222299 *****
$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Wednesday, October 06, 18:45:52 EDT 2004
Table Table 13088 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: pirsqred ( $36 )
Seat 2: El_Gecko ( $18.25 )
Seat 3: Highdogg ( $64.13 )
Seat 10: HAILMARYYY ( $20.38 )
Seat 5: DanFitzGer ( $29.75 )
Seat 9: jimkach ( $14 )
Seat 7: vanillanova ( $26.5 )
Seat 6: ckhoury22 ( $3 )
Seat 8: MINEALLMYPOT ( $3.75 )
Highdogg posts small blind [$0.25].
DanFitzGer posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to DanFitzGer [ 2s 2c ]
ckhoury22 folds.
vanillanova calls [$0.5].
MINEALLMYPOT folds.
jimkach folds.
HAILMARYYY calls [$0.5].
pirsqred calls [$0.5].
El_Gecko folds.
Highdogg raises [$0.75].
Not a great hand, but I pay the 50c to see the flop
DanFitzGer calls [$0.5].
vanillanova calls [$0.5].
HAILMARYYY calls [$0.5].
pirsqred calls [$0.5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 2h, 4c ]
3 2's
Highdogg checks.
DanFitzGer checks.
vanillanova bets [$0.5].
HAILMARYYY folds.
pirsqred calls [$0.5].
Highdogg calls [$0.5].
DanFitzGer calls [$0.5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]
Highdogg checks.
DanFitzGer bets [$1].
vanillanova folds.
pirsqred calls [$1].
Highdogg raises [$2].
DanFitzGer calls [$1].
blitz2k has joined the table.
pirsqred calls [$1].
** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
Highdogg checks.
DanFitzGer checks.
pirsqred checks.
Highdogg shows [ Kh, Kc ] two pairs, kings and nines.
DanFitzGer shows [ 2s, 2c ] a full house, Twos full of nines.
pirsqred doesn't show [ 2d, Kd ] two pairs, nines and twos.
DanFitzGer wins $12.25 from the main pot with a full house, Twos full of nines.

A couple of games later

#Game No : 1029254641
***** Hand History for Game 1029254641 *****
$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Wednesday, October 06, 18:54:58 EDT 2004
Table Table 13088 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: El_Gecko ( $17.75 )
Seat 3: Highdogg ( $58.13 )
Seat 10: HAILMARYYY ( $12.38 )
Seat 5: DanFitzGer ( $38.75 )
Seat 9: jimkach ( $26.75 )
Seat 7: vanillanova ( $22.5 )
Seat 8: MINEALLMYPOT ( $12.25 )
Seat 1: bseriousz8 ( $6 )
Seat 6: xmen2 ( $10 )
El_Gecko posts small blind [$0.25].
Highdogg posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to DanFitzGer [ Ah Ac ]
Pocket A's..
DanFitzGer calls [$0.5].
vanillanova folds.
MINEALLMYPOT raises [$1].
HAILMARYYY calls [$1].
bseriousz8 calls [$1].
El_Gecko folds.
Highdogg calls [$0.5].
DanFitzGer calls [$0.5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, Ad, 2d ]
..and 2 more on the flop. Poker IS easy.
Highdogg checks.
DanFitzGer checks.
MINEALLMYPOT checks.
HAILMARYYY checks.
bseriousz8 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ]
Highdogg checks.
DanFitzGer bets [$1].
MINEALLMYPOT calls [$1].
HAILMARYYY folds.
bseriousz8 folds.
Highdogg folds.
too bad noone has a king though
** Dealing River ** [ Ks ]
DanFitzGer bets [$1].
MINEALLMYPOT calls [$1].
DanFitzGer shows [ Ah, Ac ] four of a kind, aces.
MINEALLMYPOT doesn't show [ Tc, Ts ] two pairs, aces and kings.
DanFitzGer wins $8.75 from the main pot with four of a kind, aces.
Game #1029257853 starts.

And I end up winning less than I got with 3 2's.

I've got a couple questions Dan. Specifically your first hand. Why do you refer to a pair of twos as "Not a great hand, but I'll pay th 50c to see the flop"? Um... a pair out of two cards is the best you can get. Sure, it's 2's, but still. That's the kind of statement you might make about an AK hand or something, where you're playing on the high value and hoping for a high pair or something. with a pair right off the bat, you're hoping for 3 of a kind and your odds are decent at that.

I'm also curious why you checked on the last hand? When the first guy checked (who was the same guy who raised the hand before), that's telling you that the most agressive guy is going a bit mushy (or maybe hoping someone will raise since he's first, but it would be dumb of him after raising the last hand IMHO, so he's probably just a moron). In any case, you *know* the person following you called last round. If you check, he'll probably do so as well. At this point, it should be obvious that both other players are in "I'll pay the minimum possible to see the pot on the off chance I might win" mode. You *know* the next guy will check if you do, so you lose nothing by raising. I'd have raised $1 just to see if one of them calls. Worse case, they both fold and you get the exact same money. Ok. Really worst case, one of them is playing you and takes you for an extra couple bucks. But with a full house, I'd be playing on the assumption that the other two players probably ended up with two pair given the cards showing and the way they were betting.


Heh. But you were presumably sitting there for a bit and alot of it's figuring out who plays straight and who's sneaky. I'm just going off what I see there.


On your second hand, I also have a question. Why did you bet the maximum the next to last round? You were the second person to bet, and followed a check and were holding 4 aces. Bet 50c or check and let MINEALLMYPOT maybe raise it. That's a bit iffy though since everyone checked last round and you don't want to let everyone get to the end without paying something. I'd honestly have gone with a 50c bet. That'll make people think that maybe you just want to make them pay to see the cards. Again, maybe you had a better feel for the players, but in general you can count on maybe one player at a table to make a point of calling what looks like a bluff call (which is the only thing you can hope for with a bet like that), whereas you can usually get a few people to drop another 50c to see the last card. With 4 aces, you don't want to scare anyone off, but you don't want to give them a free rid either. Make them pay to see each card, but don't overdo it.

Getting Hand History Information...
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #2751271-3212 at Play Chip 103f (10/20 play money Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 06/Oct/04 22:12:48

Giselle66 is at seat 0 with 1770.
taylork43 is at seat 1 with 920.
XmoneymikeX is at seat 2 with 910.
Crypt Keeper is at seat 3 with 1760.
patoshea is at seat 4 with 16075.
Chtulhu is at seat 5 with 1485.
rgjobsoniv is at seat 6 with 1420.
defan is at seat 8 with 13745.
DanHine is at seat 9 with 1685.
The button is at seat 9.

Giselle66 posts the small blind of 5.
taylork43 posts the big blind of 10.
sexysh posts out of turn for 10.

Giselle66: -- --
taylork43: -- --
XmoneymikeX: -- --
Crypt Keeper: -- --
patoshea: -- --
Chtulhu: 7d Ks
rgjobsoniv: -- --
sexysh: -- --
defan: -- --
DanHine: -- --

Pre-flop:

XmoneymikeX calls. CryptKeeper raises to 20.
patoshea calls. Chtulhu calls.
rgjobsoniv calls. sexysh calls. defan calls.
DanHine calls. Giselle66 calls. taylork43 calls.
XmoneymikeX calls.

Flop (board: 5h 5s 3d):

Giselle66 checks. taylork43 checks. XmoneymikeX
checks. Crypt Keeper bets 10. patoshea folds.
Chtulhu raises to 20. rgjobsoniv calls. sexysh
calls. defan calls. DanHine calls. Giselle66
calls. taylork43 calls. XmoneymikeX calls. Crypt
Keeper re-raises to 30. Chtulhu re-raises to 40.
rgjobsoniv calls. sexysh folds. defan calls.
DanHine calls. Giselle66 calls. taylork43 calls.
XmoneymikeX calls. Crypt Keeper calls.

Turn (board: 5h 5s 3d Kc):

Giselle66 checks. taylork43 checks. XmoneymikeX
checks. Crypt Keeper bets 20. Chtulhu calls.
rgjobsoniv calls. defan calls. DanHine calls.
Giselle66 calls. taylork43 folds. XmoneymikeX
folds.

River (board: 5h 5s 3d Kc 9s):

Giselle66 checks. Crypt Keeper checks. Chtulhu bets
20. rgjobsoniv folds. defan folds. DanHine folds.
Giselle66 calls. Crypt Keeper calls.



Showdown:

Chtulhu shows 7d Ks.
Chtulhu has Ks 5h 5s Kc 9s: two pair, kings and fives.
Giselle66 mucks cards.
(Giselle66 has Ts 3c.)
Crypt Keeper mucks cards.
(Crypt Keeper has 4d 6d.)


Hand #2751271-3212 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
Chtulhu wins 720 with two pair, kings and fives.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Now, if only I can do that with real money, I'll be set

Getting Hand History Information...
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #2751271-3213 at Play Chip 103f (10/20 play money Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 06/Oct/04 22:14:35

Giselle66 is at seat 0 with 1670.
taylork43 is at seat 1 with 860.
XmoneymikeX is at seat 2 with 850.
Crypt Keeper is at seat 3 with 1660.
patoshea is at seat 4 with 16055.
Chtulhu is at seat 5 with 2105.
rgjobsoniv is at seat 6 with 1340.
sexysh is at seat 7 with 960.
defan is at seat 8 with 13665.
DanHine is at seat 9 with 1605.
The button is at seat 0.

taylork43 posts the small blind of 5.
XmoneymikeX posts the big blind of 10.

Giselle66: -- --
taylork43: -- --
XmoneymikeX: -- --
Crypt Keeper: -- --
patoshea: -- --
Chtulhu: 7d 5d
rgjobsoniv: -- --
sexysh: -- --
defan: -- --
DanHine: -- --

Pre-flop:

Crypt Keeper calls. patoshea calls. Chtulhu calls.
rgjobsoniv calls. sexysh folds. defan calls.
DanHine calls. Giselle66 calls. taylork43 calls.
XmoneymikeX raises to 20. Crypt Keeper calls.
patoshea calls. Chtulhu calls. rgjobsoniv calls.
defan calls. DanHine calls. Giselle66 calls.
taylork43 calls.

Flop (board: 7c Kh 5s):

taylork43 checks. XmoneymikeX bets 10. Crypt Keeper
raises to 20. patoshea re-raises to 30. Chtulhu
calls. rgjobsoniv calls. defan calls. DanHine
calls. Giselle66 calls. taylork43 calls.
XmoneymikeX re-raises to 40. Crypt Keeper calls.
patoshea calls. Chtulhu calls. rgjobsoniv calls.
defan calls. DanHine calls. Giselle66 calls.
taylork43 calls.

Turn (board: 7c Kh 5s Td):

taylork43 bets 20. XmoneymikeX raises to 40. Crypt
Keeper re-raises to 60. patoshea calls. Chtulhu
re-raises to 80. rgjobsoniv calls. defan calls.
DanHine folds. Giselle66 calls. taylork43 calls.
XmoneymikeX calls. Crypt Keeper calls. patoshea
calls.

River (board: 7c Kh 5s Td 9h):

taylork43 bets 20. XmoneymikeX raises to 40. Crypt
Keeper re-raises to 60. patoshea calls. Chtulhu
re-raises to 80. rgjobsoniv folds. defan folds.
Giselle66 folds. taylork43 calls. XmoneymikeX
calls. Crypt Keeper calls. patoshea calls.



Showdown:

Chtulhu shows 7d 5d.
Chtulhu has 7d 5d 7c Kh 5s: two pair, sevens and fives.
taylork43 shows Qc Jd.
taylork43 has Qc Jd Kh Td 9h: straight, king high.
XmoneymikeX mucks cards.
(XmoneymikeX has Qd Qs.)
Crypt Keeper mucks cards.
(Crypt Keeper has Ks 3d.)
patoshea mucks cards.
(patoshea has Kc 3h.)


Hand #2751271-3213 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
taylork43 wins 1580 with straight, king high.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Glad I'm not doing that with real money T_T

Edited, Wed Oct 6 22:18:04 2004 by Chtulhu

Wow, you can spin anything can't you?

And there were 9 players in the game. Close enough, unless you want to argue over the last decimal point.


It's true that in low-limit "loose" games, pairs gain value and high non-pairs lose value, but this is due to the psychological nature of people staying in when it only costs them 50 cents, not due to card statistics. And 22 is still down the list from AK.



And that's what the statistics are supposed to do. They simply calculate the chances of your hole cards making various poker hands, and the chances of those poker hands being the winning hand. People more educated in this field than you or I have come up with the card rankings, but if you think you're smarter at poker than the experts, you should start spending more time in vegas.


Who knows. I could be wrong about this, which is why I'm not in vegas either. But I'm fairly confident the AK is still superior to the 22.




Edited, Wed Oct 6 23:34:11 2004 by trickybeck

Eh? It also depends on the number of players. Those odds are calculcated at 10 players with no folds. It's a nice bit of statistics, but you've got to remember that with 10 players, a significantly greater percentage of cards are in play and you start playing the odds that someone *wont* get 3 of a kind, or a full house, or a flush, or a straight, so starting with a low pair is skant advantage but having 2 cards with options for multiple types of "lucky" winning hands becomes more valuable. With fewer players, those odds change. You've got a 17% chance of hitting 3 of a kind with a pair down. The odds of someone in the field coming up with something better on any given hand is slimmer then that.


It's a minor point anyway. It's just a general rule in poker that the fewer players in the hand, the less important the numbers on the cards are and the more important the ranking (pair, 2 pair, etc...). But then I've never played this particular varient, so it's possible things are a bit different. Just glancing at things though, I supect that the real win percentages especially for non paired cards are much lower then the stats show simply due to the fact that most people will fold if they don't see something right off the bat in a real game. The stats in essense assume that everyone will play to an inside straight every time. That simply doesn't happen in real play (and especially wont if you bet right).


You have no idea how to play poker, do you?

Just wondering.

I've got a couple questions Dan. Specifically your first hand. Why do you refer to a pair of twos as "Not a great hand, but I'll pay th 50c to see the flop"?


Because it's a horrible hand. See if you can't puzzle out why.



Um... a pair out of two cards is the best you can get. Sure, it's 2's, but still. That's the kind of statement you might make about an AK hand or something, where you're playing on the high value and hoping for a high pair or something. with a pair right off the bat, you're hoping for 3 of a kind and your odds are decent at that.


No, no they're not. They're really not very good at all. About 1 in 7 that you'll improve to 3 of a kind by the time the last card is delt.

AK is a vastly superior hand.


I'm also curious why you checked on the last hand? When the first guy checked (who was the same guy who raised the hand before), that's telling you that the most agressive guy is going a bit mushy (or maybe hoping someone will raise since he's first, but it would be dumb of him after raising the last hand IMHO, so he's probably just a moron). In any case, you *know* the person following you called last round. If you check, he'll probably do so as well. At this point, it should be obvious that both other players are in "I'll pay the minimum possible to see the pot on the off chance I might win" mode. You *know* the next guy will check if you do, so you lose nothing by raising. I'd have raised $1 just to see if one of them calls. Worse case, they both fold and you get the exact same money. Ok. Really worst case, one of them is playing you and takes you for an extra couple bucks. But with a full house, I'd be playing on the assumption that the other two players probably ended up with two pair given the cards showing and the way they were betting.


You somehow managed to be right about that. Betting out is the right idea.


Heh. But you were presumably sitting there for a bit and alot of it's figuring out who plays straight and who's sneaky. I'm just going off what I see there.


It's irrelevant. There are a grand total of three hands that beat him here and the betting hasn't indicated that any of them are even vaguely plausible.



On your second hand, I also have a question. Why did you bet the maximum the next to last round? You were the second person to bet, and followed a check and were holding 4 aces. Bet 50c or check and let MINEALLMYPOT maybe raise it. That's a bit iffy though since everyone checked last round and you don't want to let everyone get to the end without paying something. I'd honestly have gone with a 50c bet. That'll make people think that maybe you just want to make them pay to see the cards. Again, maybe you had a better feel for the players, but in general you can count on maybe one player at a table to make a point of calling what looks like a bluff call (which is the only thing you can hope for with a bet like that), whereas you can usually get a few people to drop another 50c to see the last card. With 4 aces, you don't want to scare anyone off, but you don't want to give them a free rid either. Make them pay to see each card, but don't overdo it.


It's not an option. The betting doubles on the turn and the river, it's part of the structure of the game :)