Historically, North Korea hasn't been particularly ameniable to compromise. It wasn't like we were throwing away years of effort on Kim Jong Il-- he's walked away many times from the negotiating table and said more outrageous things that make Bush's statement clearly mild by comparison. It seems to me that NK only respects strength and might and will exploit any percieved weakness at the drop of a hat.
Totem
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How to Solve North KoreaFollow
Quote:
It seems to me that NK only respects strength and might and will exploit any percieved weakness at the drop of a hat
So, then North Korea would have been more amenable to a compromise after we called them part of the "axis of evil," since we were showing them that we are really tough?
There are times when you must make clear to a threat that certain actions will result in certain responses. North Korea has not and does not respond well to the carrot, so the stick is a natural second step.
Totem
Totem
Just an aside to the Stok / Smash slap fight.
Was Clintons stance on N Korea perfect, obviously not. But Bush has been in office 4 years now. For good or ill he is the Commander in Chief.
You cant cop out and say "it was the last guys fault". North Korea didnt get nuclear weapons under Clinton, it happened while Bush was in charge. If something shi[u][/u]tty happens while your in charge own up to it, dont pass the buck to the last guy. Bush is the man running the ship the buck stops with him.
That is one of my main sticking points with the Bush Administration. Its always someone else's fault. Faulty intelligence, the French, partisans, UN, Clinton, activist judges etc.
Was Clintons stance on N Korea perfect, obviously not. But Bush has been in office 4 years now. For good or ill he is the Commander in Chief.
You cant cop out and say "it was the last guys fault". North Korea didnt get nuclear weapons under Clinton, it happened while Bush was in charge. If something shi[u][/u]tty happens while your in charge own up to it, dont pass the buck to the last guy. Bush is the man running the ship the buck stops with him.
That is one of my main sticking points with the Bush Administration. Its always someone else's fault. Faulty intelligence, the French, partisans, UN, Clinton, activist judges etc.
Bode - 100 Holy Paladin - Lightbringer
Quote:
There are times when you must make clear to a threat that certain actions will result in certain responses.
Let's say that the leader of a powerful country is trying to open trade negotiations with another country. The talks are going slow and neither side can agree on a settlement. The leader of the first country then makes a statment to the press that the leader of the second country is an ***[/b]hole and the anti christ. How soon after that statement will the second leader agree to a meeting and to the terms of the first country?
The action of calling North Korea evil did result in a certain response which was pretty much a big fu[b]ck you to the US.
Bush should have exercised some sensible diplomacy instead of just calling a country evil.
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How to Solve North Korea
isolated small pox.
Warlord Lefein wrote:
*note this is a bit of fiction*
President Lefein announced today that after over fifty years of control that Japan would be able to have a military. [cue soundbite]
"With the problems of North Korea having a robust missile program and nuclear capability I simply cannot justify allowing a country to remain defenseless in the region."
[end soundbite]
President Lefein announced today that after over fifty years of control that Japan would be able to have a military. [cue soundbite]
"With the problems of North Korea having a robust missile program and nuclear capability I simply cannot justify allowing a country to remain defenseless in the region."
[end soundbite]
Actually, Japan has a military, a fairly big one that's growing bigger every day. They've been quietly building a navy and offensive army for years now, with quiet approval from the US.
They still call it a defense force, but that's just PR.
The projected scope of their military is to be able to effectively launch an attack on Taiwan island and the Korean peninsula. South Koreans aren't thrilled with this (history being what it is), but the Taiwanese government appreciates the future PRC invasion deterrent.
They also have all the preparations to go nuclear. They're just trying to figure how to do it without pissing off the Japanese public and scaring the bejesus out of all their friendly neighbors.
Smasharoo wrote:
Japan is not defenseless
S Korea on the other hand, pretty much fuc[b][/b]ked because Bush didn't do anything at all about N Korea's nuclear program except declare the country "evil". Which pretty much sped up the nuclear program.
...And killed the "Sunshine Policy" between North and South. Bush really f'ucked S Korea over, plain and simple.
And worse yet, his blustery inaction against North Korea, combined with the Iraq invasion, has basically told the rest of the third world to hurry up and get their nukes, so that the U.S. won't ever be able to bother them again.
The problem obviously isn't that a country has nukes, it's when a country that has nukes does not bow down to Team America: World Police. Clinton didn't do a bad thing, when he OK'd the reactor, but since GW said F U to NK, then it resulted in a dangerous situation. The whole conquest idea is played out, it was shown once with Rome. Why can't every hostile country (including the US) just accept that they missed out on the whole battle for real estate thing. It only causes sour times.
Those are some pretty rose colored glasses you got on there, Laviont. Are they from the Make Love Not War brand? Very chic!
Totem
Totem
What IS Bush supposed to do? Answer that question and then lets continue with the arguement.
Kundalini,
The problem with your analogy is that NK has no trade worth bargaining for, no industry worth attempting to negotiate with, and no market that has any money worth placing our goods in.
It is a rabid, desperately poor, aggressive, and Stalinistic society with no redeemable qualities, regardless what Dracoid says. It's like asking a sociopathic 11 year old who is a pyromaniac who lives on your block to play nice with your kids and asking him if he'd mind behaving himself. It ain't gonna happen.
Each of you are making the asumption that Kim Jong Il is a rational, reasonable human being who has his subject's best interests at heart and will do what is necessary to keep them well fed, prosperous, and happy. And that's not reality.
Totem
The problem with your analogy is that NK has no trade worth bargaining for, no industry worth attempting to negotiate with, and no market that has any money worth placing our goods in.
It is a rabid, desperately poor, aggressive, and Stalinistic society with no redeemable qualities, regardless what Dracoid says. It's like asking a sociopathic 11 year old who is a pyromaniac who lives on your block to play nice with your kids and asking him if he'd mind behaving himself. It ain't gonna happen.
Each of you are making the asumption that Kim Jong Il is a rational, reasonable human being who has his subject's best interests at heart and will do what is necessary to keep them well fed, prosperous, and happy. And that's not reality.
Totem
Continue diplomatic routes and buffer the Japanese defense force. Let asians take care of asians. Eventually Japan will have enough military power again to hold some weight in the region. Hopefully, America will have to do very little with the situation. There's only one country that both the PRC and DPRK would **** on themselves if it ever had any power again, and that's Japan.
Jindo,
Japan's military is a national guard. A beefy, well trained national guard, but a national guard all the same.
As for Bush spoiling anything between North and South Korea, the only thing he did is upset the delusional college students over there who believe that Kim Jong Il is a nice guy. No loss there whatsoever.
Totem
Japan's military is a national guard. A beefy, well trained national guard, but a national guard all the same.
As for Bush spoiling anything between North and South Korea, the only thing he did is upset the delusional college students over there who believe that Kim Jong Il is a nice guy. No loss there whatsoever.
Totem
The whitest black man in America wrote:
FTFY - Sorry T, couldn't resist!
Quote:
Each of you conservatives are making the asumption that George W. Bush is a rational, reasonable human being who has his subject's best interests at heart and will do what is necessary to keep them well fed, prosperous, and happy. And that's not reality.
FTFY - Sorry T, couldn't resist!
'Lo, there do I see, the line of my people, back to the beginning, 'lo do they call to me, they bid me take my place among them, in the halls of Valhalla, where the brave...may live...forever.
X-Box 360 Gamer Tag - Smogster
X-Box 360 Gamer Tag - Smogster
Quote:
Each of you are making the asumption that Kim Jong Il is a rational, reasonable human being who has his subject's best interests at heart and will do what is necessary to keep them well fed, prosperous, and happy. And that's not reality.
Oh stop Totem, all of our liberal friends know that the reason NK is misbehaving is because GWB was elected President. Don't you see that the last 55 years has meant nothing. It is only because Bush called them evil that NK is the way it is today. Remember the liberal nursery rhyme: sticks and stones may break bones, but names will always hurt me.
Touche, Smoggy! Or should I say, "Et tu, Brute?" In all the time you and I have been on this board, I think that's the first swipe you've taken at me.
Good one though! :D
Totem
Good one though! :D
Totem
Oh, now there's a good idea, Lefein. Remilitarize Japan, change their constitution to let them engage in forays across Asia. That's sure to be a winner with both Koreas, both Chinas, and every other nation who was run roughshod over by that society built on warrior principles.
And you think the stink supposedly raised by Bush was big? Just wait until Japan is the military heavyweight in the region. It's bad enough to the rest of those countries that Japan is an economic power, but throw in the military and you have reset the clock back to 1935.
Totem
And you think the stink supposedly raised by Bush was big? Just wait until Japan is the military heavyweight in the region. It's bad enough to the rest of those countries that Japan is an economic power, but throw in the military and you have reset the clock back to 1935.
Totem
Continue diplomatic routes and buffer the Japanese defense force.
The North Koreans have to be willing participants in the diplomatic process. I don't see them offering any compromises, all they have done so far is make demands and insinuate that the US is the aggressor in this situation. The NK stopped talks this last time because of the size of the flags in the meeting room. Wow history repeats itself.
Let asians take care of asians. Eventually Japan will have enough military power again to hold some weight in the region.
We don't want Japan to hold weight in the region. The Korean peninsuala is a strategic piece of land for the US military, do you really think we are going to give up a stronghold on the Asian continent?
Hopefully, America will have to do very little with the situation.
America is a member of the Nuke club remember. We have a lot to do with this situation. Besides the ramifications that a nuke ready NK has will upset the stability of the entire reagion. Go to www.un.org and search North Korean Nuclear Weapons. Read the articles that appear in the search.
There's only one country that both the PRC and DPRK would **** on themselves if it ever had any power again, and that's Japan.
Where do you get your information from? Check your world maps again.
I see your political leanings on foriegn affairs; you are an isolationist.
The United States needs to remain on the Korean Peninsuala and persuade NK to for go any more development of the nuclear weapons. IMO Kim jung il is a mad man and will not hesitate to launch his weapons at Japan or even American territories just to prove a point.
The North Koreans have to be willing participants in the diplomatic process. I don't see them offering any compromises, all they have done so far is make demands and insinuate that the US is the aggressor in this situation. The NK stopped talks this last time because of the size of the flags in the meeting room. Wow history repeats itself.
Let asians take care of asians. Eventually Japan will have enough military power again to hold some weight in the region.
We don't want Japan to hold weight in the region. The Korean peninsuala is a strategic piece of land for the US military, do you really think we are going to give up a stronghold on the Asian continent?
Hopefully, America will have to do very little with the situation.
America is a member of the Nuke club remember. We have a lot to do with this situation. Besides the ramifications that a nuke ready NK has will upset the stability of the entire reagion. Go to www.un.org and search North Korean Nuclear Weapons. Read the articles that appear in the search.
There's only one country that both the PRC and DPRK would **** on themselves if it ever had any power again, and that's Japan.
Where do you get your information from? Check your world maps again.
I see your political leanings on foriegn affairs; you are an isolationist.
The United States needs to remain on the Korean Peninsuala and persuade NK to for go any more development of the nuclear weapons. IMO Kim jung il is a mad man and will not hesitate to launch his weapons at Japan or even American territories just to prove a point.
Quote:
Touche, Smoggy! Or should I say, "Et tu, Brute?" In all the time you and I have been on this board, I think that's the first swipe you've taken at me.
Good one though! :D
Totem
Good one though! :D
Totem
Ahh, I did it with love, bud. Too bad I didn't earn my first "RACK", though!
'Lo, there do I see, the line of my people, back to the beginning, 'lo do they call to me, they bid me take my place among them, in the halls of Valhalla, where the brave...may live...forever.
X-Box 360 Gamer Tag - Smogster
X-Box 360 Gamer Tag - Smogster
Totem wrote:
Oh, now there's a good idea, Lefein. Remilitarize Japan, change their constitution to let them engage in forays across Asia. That's sure to be a winner with both Koreas, both Chinas, and every other nation who was run roughshod over by that society built on warrior principles.
And you think the stink supposedly raised by Bush was big? Just wait until Japan is the military heavyweight in the region. It's bad enough to the rest of those countries that Japan is an economic power, but throw in the military and you have reset the clock back to 1935.
Totem
And you think the stink supposedly raised by Bush was big? Just wait until Japan is the military heavyweight in the region. It's bad enough to the rest of those countries that Japan is an economic power, but throw in the military and you have reset the clock back to 1935.
Totem
Exactly the kind of crow they need to eat for pursuing aggressive military strategy. I think you all are forgetting that the DPRK fired a launcher right over Japan to demonstrate it's ICBM capabilities. Also, there's a huge difference between now and 1935... In 1935 there was no north korea to speak of and China was too unorganized to project logistical support to our enemies (like they can and do now) Oh, there's also that whole "Japan is our friend" thing too.
MAN the rose colored glasses im wearing really make the mushroom clouds look soooo beautiful, especially since i just ate some mushrooms. Legalize love. I think that guy needs some *****. To argue over the size of flags is just rediculous.
Consider it done. RACK you, baby!
Totem
Totem
Quote:
Consider it done. RACK you, baby!
Totem
Totem
Whoot!
Great Googily-moogily, I've been RACKified!'Lo, there do I see, the line of my people, back to the beginning, 'lo do they call to me, they bid me take my place among them, in the halls of Valhalla, where the brave...may live...forever.
X-Box 360 Gamer Tag - Smogster
X-Box 360 Gamer Tag - Smogster
You where racked under false pretenses. RACK denied.
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