Poverty Levels are UpFollow

Nope. I don't have statistics on this. I doubt if anyone does. Whether or not someone "works hard" is subjective, so it'd be kind of hard to collect data on.

I'm meaning statistically in the sense that if you take a broad group, you'll find that more tend in one way then another. I used the word because if I just said: "It's the rare exception to find someone who honestly works hard...", someone inevitably would have pointed to how there are X number of people who lost their jobs last year and ended up in a shelter or something. It's "statistical" because I'm trying to look at the entire set of workers, not just a small sample in which someone can always find some that dont fit the norm.

May not have been the best term to use, but there you have it.


I base my statement purely on my own observations. I have *never* known someone who actually put a lot of effort into working and actually tried hard, and was actually competant (some people are just freaking morons btw), who still ended up working a minimum wage job. I've known *lots* of people who had crappy jobs. Every single one of them had horrible work habits, and thought of their job as something they really didn't want to do, so they'd do the absolute minimum needed to keep from getting fired (and they usually didn't succeed for long at that goal either). Those same people typically would blow their paychecks as soon as they got them, and often had to borrow money to make their rent as a result. If they get a credit card, they'd rack up as much as they could, and then just pay off the minimum payment (eternal debt if you do that btw). Look closely enough at someone who "cant" get a good job, or "can't" save money and get ahead in life, and you will almost always find that it's about them, not some inherent unfairness in the system.


I've just seen enough total slackers who have an excuse for why nothing is their fault that I have a healthy skepticism when people make that claim. I have *never* seen an example where it really wasn't their fault to some degree. Not once.

Not really. Because then someone else could/would give one example that didn't match that observation and imply that the entire statement was wrong.

I was trying to convey the point that *if* you were to look at a broad group of people, you would find that the trend matches what I was saying. I was specifically trying to avoid the "but I can find an exception, so that's not the rule" type of counter argument. I suppose I could have said "By and large", or "as a general trend", or something like that. Whatever. Fill in whatever word you think best fits.

Yeah. But "statistics" does not require that the data mentioned be collected by a third party. If I'm referring to a collection of personal observations and experiences, and I've seen a trend in those experiences, there's nothing wrong with talking about that trend (or even using the term statistics).

I agree that there is a general presumption of third party data when one uses the term statistics, which is why I agreed that it was probably not the best word to use. But if *I* observe something as a trend, I certainly have a right to present it was a trend. If I just say "In my experience", or "I have observed", I could be talking about as little as one data point. When I use terms like statistically, or trends, it's clear I'm talking about many instances of observations.


That's all I was trying to convey.


The important thing is: Do you agree or disagree with the assertion? It's all well and good to question my word choice, but what about the argument I was making? Do you think that most people who are unable to progress past minimum wage jobs are in that state becuase some external force overwhich they have no control is preventing them from doing so? Or do you think maybe it's as a result of actions/choices of their own?

Common sense is not the same as statistical evidence; nor is personal observation.

Or changed it to "I'm just talking out of my *** here and saying what I think fits while presenting it as factual data..." and saved himself less typing but been more accurate

Unlike you, I'm capable of saying I'm not qualified to to venture a sweeping guess based off of my own limited experience with the nation's 35.9 million people below the poverty level to say how many of them are lazy n'er-do-wells. If you think you are, I'd like to hear your qualifications, otherwise at least admit that you're talking out of your ***.

So you're saying that, statistically, people from San Diego aren't 100% likely to make stuff up as they go along? Because my self-observed dataset shows a definate trend in that direction.

Any time Sam.

So what you're telling me, Here'sJohnny, is that Varrus is the Hulk?

Totem