Flip flopFollow

This is the kind of leader you dems are pushing...

Drudge Report: Kerry, who is trying to woo swing voters, did not stand by his celeb supporters. On the defensive, he distanced himself from Goldberg and said through spokesmen that he thought her comments were inappropriate.


He can't even come out and say he disagrees with woopi he has to have a spokesman say it for him. Oh but he appeals to the average voter.

Varus

Well a wishy washy president is better than Bush, Kerry didnt start an unjust war on false intelligence that has resulted in the death of over 10,000 civilians.

I dunno, guess we have different views on what makes a bad president.

I know im going to regret this..


WTF are you talking about? Is Kerry the first one to ever use a spokesperson? If you want to present a good reason to not vote for someone it should be better than this.

bodhazafa wrote:

Well a wishy washy president is better than Bush, Kerry didnt start an unjust war on false intelligence that has resulted in the death of over 10,000 civilians.

I dunno, guess we have different views on what makes a bad president.

So you would rather a pus*y run the country than a pair of balls? By the way the war isn't unjust there are links in the 911 commission between terrorists and iraq. And how in the hell did you get the number 10,000 civilians? List your source.

Taeldar proves my point that pretty much all democrats believe that Bush was never elected. Holding this view the radical democrats don't accept anything Bush is doing correctly or what he believes to be in the best interest of the country. They assume he's evil and form their theories based on this mindset.

Bush may do some things I disagree with but at least I believe he's trying to do the right thing. This is different than clintons legacy which entailed all his actions being decided by polls rather than a belief that what he was doing was right.

Varus

Pickled wrote

No, I really think his views on Whoopi should be taken into account. I don't want a man in office who doesn't have an opinion on every ******* insignificant thing.

Ah now we're back to the it's only a little thing it doesn't make a difference. I for one try to look at the character of a person. This was just another example of the type of chracter kerry has. He can accept their money in the one hand and in the other admonish their actions.

Varus

Body count

The Best i could find, is the CBC which is Canada's main news website it had some good numbers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/casualties.html [/link]

The rest all back it up pretty much.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ [/link]

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/ [/link]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0522/p01s02-woiq.html [/link]




Reports on Casualties
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1049413227648_10/?hub=SpecialEvent3 [/link]

http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/12/us-iraq-press.htm [/link]

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/11/14/us_stays_blind_to_iraqi_casualties/ [/link]

Oh and side note Between January and May 2004, the ICRC carried out 17 visits to six detention places under the control of the United States and United Kingdom. These places of detention held a total of more than 12,150 detainees over the reporting period.

US with Britain holding over 12.5k Prisoners of War. At least those are the ones that the US will allow red cross workers to see.

Edited, Fri Jul 16 14:01:22 2004 by bhodisattva

First of all, the more advisors a president has (or a would be president), the better. It shows that the person actually cares about the input of other people. Why do you think Bush and his administration have spent so much money pushing this whole "Flip-Flop" thing? Because all the heat George has been taking for NOT considering the advice of...well...pretty much anyone (including the UN no less - way to shoot down our reputation with the rest of the world Georgie).

Why would Bush need advisors? He doesn't listen to other people's input. He is a bull-headed, stubborn, arrogant and ignorant liability. Remember when our country was still considering going to war? I remember Bush saying that it didn't matter what the opinion of the UN or the rest of the world was, he was going to do it anyway.

Labeling Kerry as a "Flip-Flopper" is essentially putting a negative SPIN on the fact that Kerry is able (unlike Bush) to CHANGE HIS MIND based on input. This is a very important quality for a leader to have. I wish Bush was a "Flip-Flopper." Bush wants something, he pushes forward. New evidence suggests a different approach might be more prudent - he's not going to "Flip-Flop" or change his mind. The Bush administration is trying to deflect what they know is a major weakness, towards what the majority of the ignorant American public (like yourself Varus) will see as a problem with Kerry.

Stupid Fool.

People die in war, but the difference in lets say WWII and the war in Iraq is that this was an unprovoked attack, unjustified and against international law. In other words it was about as justified as Japans attack on Pearl Harbour.

Now to go off on some tangents:

Yes it was proven that members of Al-qaeda and the Sadaam's secular Regime met and it was only between low level member of the Sadaam regime and al-qaeda, the same intelligence also proves that those meeting went very badly and had Osama calling Sadaam the Socialist Dictator and wishing bad things on him. Other than that if you wanna find a country that has clear and proven links to Osama and Al-qaeda go look at the Saudis.

Both are nepotistic dictatorships that posed no threat to surrounding countries the difference one is our ally and the other isnt. Turns out the ally supplied Al-qaeda with millions and millions of dollars and most of the highjackers for the Sept. 11 attacks

The thing is that by trying to impose Freedom on Iraq the United States has killed 3 times the number of people killed in the September 11th and also 1000 coalition forces dead to date to boot.

Also you have a nation that while under a modicum of government under the Sadaam dictatorship to a condition of absolute lawlessness (i can get a million links if you want) and complete break down of government and services, a huge rise in terrorist activity (prior to fall of sadaam the only terrorist bases or activity were in northern section of Iraq where Sadaam had no power, and these were small scales operation with no Al-qaeda links), massive civilian casualties, a huge rise in religious fanaticism, and a bleak outlook for the next 10 years, also foreign control over Iraqs number one resource and guaranteed US military bases and prescence for the next 25 years.

***(while occupation for that long is highly unlikely due to conditions of take over, it is more than likely US will be allowed military bases on Iraq soil for as long as they like no contest. This will give the United States a strategic postion over all other middle east states. While they have bases in Saudi Arabia they are at the whim of the saudi government so if saudis ask them to leave or not do something they have to comply or leave, Iraq on the other hand probably wont have that option for some years to come, U.S. will probably have free reign.

*** Smash please take over, my fingers are getting sore and i have to goto work***

Edited, Fri Jul 16 14:59:18 2004 by bhodisattva

Edited, Fri Jul 16 15:00:26 2004 by bhodisattva

Edited, Fri Jul 16 15:01:52 2004 by bhodisattva

Edited, Fri Jul 16 15:11:35 2004 by bhodisattva

Edited, Fri Jul 16 15:13:53 2004 by bhodisattva

Edited, Fri Jul 16 15:17:28 2004 by bhodisattva

"Freedom"...as if they are better off now than before the war LOL.

"There ought to be limits to freedom"

- George W. Bush, The Boy King

May 21, 1999. This was in the context of his efforts to shut down a website making fun of him.

Sorry to come back to this post again but something just popped up when i read it.

If you think its okay that only 10,000 people died to impose your idea of Freedom on people that dont want it, i think you might need to re-evaluate your morals.

Not to mention the tens of thousands injured, who lost family, homes etc. If thats how you guys give freedom then your as bad as the people that take freedom away

To steal a line from Frank Herbert:

"Atrocity is recognized as such by victim and perpetrator alike, by all who learn about it at whatever remove. Atrocity has no excuses, no mitigating argument. Atrocity never balances or rectifies the past. Atrocity merely arms the future for more atrocity. It is self-perpetuating upon itself -- a barbarous form of incest. Whoever commits atrocity also commits those future atrocities thus bred."


Edited, Fri Jul 16 15:37:01 2004 by bhodisattva

But earlier...



You're sort of a "Do as I say, not as I do" type of guy, aren't you, Varus?

And no, Drudge Report does not count as a source.

C'mon.. Drudge reported that Ditka was going to hold a news conference declaring his running for the Senate!

Of course, Ditka never was and, that day, said he had no intentions of running...

People who have to hide behind sockpuppets don't get to talk about character