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#27 Jul 05 2004 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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One can't fault the officers for being prepared, what if two uniformed officers politely knocked on the door and arrested the inhabitants, sure it's more cost effective but the chances an officer will be killed in the process increase immensely. If you were an officer and told you had to arrest a known drug dealer in the area wouldn’t you feel better with body armor and an Uzi? Better safe then sorry.

Hopefully Kelvy will get fined out the *** to make up some of the difference.
#28 Jul 05 2004 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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And I'm suprised you have so much sympathy for a drug dealer Smash.
#29 Jul 05 2004 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
It's overkill, that's all.
And you are basing this off of the story by an anonymous person on the internet who is only telling his side of the story. We have not nor probably never will hear the entire story nor truth about the situation. So the probability that the police acted in the manner they did was due to probable cause. But go ahead and listen to the "victims" side of the story and take up for him, because all he and his room mate where doing was breaking the law.
#30 Jul 05 2004 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, duh, Stok. Of course all we have is his side. It isn't as though the cops are going to be reading this forum and go, "Oh, yeah, that sounds just like that bust we did yesterday, let's post our side."

If you don't accept posters' basic stories at face value (aside from any glaring inconsistencies), then we'd never have anything to talk about.

Anyway, what I want to know is, did they have a warrant?
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#31 Jul 05 2004 at 6:05 PM Rating: Good
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*sigh*
Ok, fine. I'll regurgitate your post point for point if that will make you happy.
Quote:
Yet no matter how much prodding I give he has yet to offer any facts about why I am apparently ignorant on the subject.


And what facts would you like? The fact that the in the US budget (state and federal) the war on drugs costs the US tax payer 40 billion dollars a year? Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy
Or the fact that there are about 700,000 arrests a year alone for cannabis? 650,000 of those are for simple possession.
Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation
Or the fact that the US (with less then 5% of the worlds population) has over 1/4 of the worlds prisoners? Source: Editorial, San Jose Mercury News
What source would be relevant for you? I have over 100 on hand.
Speaking of which, where are your sources?

Quote:
All he can imply is that because I don’t agree with him so I must be wrong, visa vie if I disagree with him I’m an idiot, but he offers no reason supporting this claim, just the hope that by throwing out a bunch of tripe insults I will become bored with his incoherent ramblings and choose to go attack something with an intelligence greater then your average piece of fruit


No, I got tired of your personal attacks on this guy for doing something that harms no one. And I told you already, I find that you’re a wasted mind, so I didn't take the time to bother posting a lengthy fact forum for you. Do a little research, you can find these facts everywhere on the internet. All I wanted you to do was shut up until you had taken the time to go out and actually LOOK for the facts, instead of posting your blatant banter against someone for enjoying an herb that god placed on this planet.

Quote:
Please, I beg you, offer some support as to your claims of why I’m apparently so very uneducated on the subject greater then “Because you have an opinion different then mine NOW SHUT UP!” I will be much amused by your response.


As I stated earlier, ask and you shall receive. What exactly do you want to know about the unjust treatment of those who partake of a simple herb?

Quote:
But you are correct on one point though, I do not ‘care about the people involved in it in any shape or form’ because I simply have 0 respect for addicts who can’t control their own damn habit despite it being against the law.


The how can you comment on something you obviously don't care about, and for that matter have any insight into, and know nothing save your own personal feelings? Since when did that become "Fact?"

Addicts, now there is one I love to debate on. Please prove that they are addicts. Please give me a non-government sponsored study from a credited source with another supporting source. I'll give you my two.

Quote:
The DEA's Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young concluded: "In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.:

Source: US Department of Justice, Drug Enforcement Agency, "In the Matter of Marijuana Rescheduling Petition," [Docket #86-22], (September 6, 1988), p. 57.


And maybe if the quote itself is difficult to understand, a nice chart showing the addictive properties of marijuana relevant to other substance will help.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/addictiv.htm

Quote:
If you want to change a few laws to get marijuana legalized by all means, go ahead, I will even support you. But don’t sit around on your *** doing nothing then the second you actually get busted for it have the gal to start ******** about ‘How you were wronged because pot should be legal’ if idiots like you would treat your cause as nothing more then a convenient excuse for why you couldn’t keep your bong hole shut, pot would probably be legal by now.


I have actively been supporting the efforts since I learned of the injustices suffered in this "war on drugs"
So why don't you live up to your end of the bargain
http://www.drugsense.org/html/modules.php?name=Oldsite&page=active

And it will never be legal until we get people to stop using federal funds to raid completely legal compassion clubs in California (1), or to illegally use federal funds to lobby against state initiatives (2).
(1) http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1324/a01.html?99616
(2) http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04/n677/a09.html?99617
&
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/01/Columns/Drug_war_invades_stat.shtml



There are my facts. Sadly, half of them are from government sources, the very people who are against a simple plant.

Is this enough for you? Or are you so blind that you want me to post nothing but links for 15 pages of 50 posts a piece? (And yes, I have that much information)
What would it take to open your mind to the fact that this war is nothing more then a waste of your money?
The fact that you have been spoon feed bullsh*t since day one by our government?
I will be the first to admit, exestacy, crack, heroin, and "Hard" drugs should be gone after in this mannerism, and I support your ideals on that side of the argument. But pot is a harmless substance, yet you fight so adamantly against such a harmless substance when someone is raped every two minuets in this country? Source: http://www.iejs.com/Law/Criminal_Law/Rape.htm
That could be your wife/girlfriend. And yet we waste this much manpower, police time and energy, tax payers money, and court system time on pot.

There are so many other things that our police should be doing right now, yet why is pot so adamantly sought after?

I am sorry I came across so damn stupid before. I fight these types of arguments every day, and it becomes so monotonous to see the same mindless, personal attacks on people.
I ask for your forgiveness, because I did come across as an asshat in my first and second posts. But please, open your mind to other ideas then your own. Take into account other peoples suffering instead of only what you believe to be right.
That is almost how this war started to begin with.

Edited: cuz the last damn quote thing isn't working

2nd Edit: just to say, is this a gbaji worthy post length or what?

Edited, Mon Jul 5 19:26:03 2004 by Molish
#32 Jul 05 2004 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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Lol. The OP made the somewhat obvious connection to the fact that there are multiple game sites at Alla's. Depending on how you access the forums, the look and style is different. Also, depending on how you access the site, you get different links in the "Forums..." section to the left (see! Look to the left).

Those of us who access the site from the EQ POV see Main EQ forum, Quest Forum, OOT, and Asylum. Presumably, all but the last two are different if you access it from a different game path.

I think it just suddenly dawned on the OP that the OOT and Asylum links in the FFXI form were not "special" ones just for FFXI players, but were in commmon across all games.

Should have been obvious. Certainly didn't need a thread about it. Then again, if he didn't know, maybe others never caught on either, and maybe they'll read this and realize that they really shouldn't post stuff bout their particular game here.

Probably wont make any different though.[silver]

[sm]Edited, Tue Jul 6 19:15:12 2004 by trickybeck
#33 Jul 05 2004 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm. I think that Molish is gbaji's new puppet. That can be the only explanation for the novel he just posted, which, much like gbaji's posts, I read only the first and last few lines of.

Next time, try summarizing.

Twiztid
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#34 Jul 05 2004 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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Damnit, right when I edited it to say the 2nd edit line, I see Twiztid hits me with the same damn thing. I'm disheartened for my mentor to say something like that :( I already told you man, I'm no ones' sockpuppet.

Tricky, my point was he was attacking someone (very vulgarly) for doing something HARMLESS. And I think I stated the fact that I am a supporter of this cause, so that’s a moot point.

Edit: oh, and seriously guys, thats why no one has proper information on the subject. No on has the time to dig indepth into it and see for themselves the information buried deep within. You don't wanna waste your time reading it, but you sure wanna have an opinion on it. Go figure....

Besides, he's the one who said that I gave no information on my argument. There my info, point for point.

Edited, Mon Jul 5 19:35:57 2004 by Molish
#35 Jul 05 2004 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Hmm. I think that Molish is gbaji's new puppet. That can be the only explanation for the novel he just posted, which, much like gbaji's posts, I read only the first and last few lines of.

Next time, try summarizing.


OMG Twiztid. You dont have an endless supply of time to read redundant arguments?

Actually I tend to read either the first or last lines of his posts now. Im afraid if I read more than that I will be wondering what the rest of it meant and then I will have to stare at my screen for an hour reading the whole post.
#36 Jul 05 2004 at 7:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
*sigh*
Ok, fine. I'll regurgitate your post point for point if that will make you happy.

Yes it will, btw your not Gbaji’s puppet, I would say if anything you belong to Thundra or Tacosid’s (What ever happened to him?)


Quote:
And what facts would you like? The fact that the in the US budget (state and federal) the war on drugs costs the US tax payer 40 billion dollars a year? Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy
Or the fact that there are about 700,000 arrests a year alone for cannabis? 650,000 of those are for simple possession.
Source: Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation
Or the fact that the US (with less then 5% of the worlds population) has over 1/4 of the worlds prisoners? Source: Editorial, San Jose Mercury News
What source would be relevant for you? I have over 100 on hand.
Speaking of which, where are your sources?

So the police spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight drugs (However minute) and it is the polices fault? How about we put some of the blame on the people who violate the laws.
I wonder how much money was spent to track down rapists and murders last year, we should make that legal also.


Quote:
No, I got tired of your personal attacks on this guy for doing something that harms no one. And I told you already, I find that you’re a wasted mind, so I didn't take the time to bother posting a lengthy fact forum for you. Do a little research, you can find these facts everywhere on the internet. All I wanted you to do was shut up until you had taken the time to go out and actually LOOK for the facts, instead of posting your blatant banter against someone for enjoying an herb that god placed on this planet.

Hurt no one? Didn’t we establish the fact that he was a drug dealer Cigarettes are a legal substance that I guess you would claim doesn’t hurt anyone, I guess the tobacco companies ‘harm no one’
Gee it must be ok because god put it on the earth, because we all know that all plants that god put on the earth are safe, unless you count the 1000’s of poisonous plant species all around the earth.



Quote:
As I stated earlier, ask and you shall receive. What exactly do you want to know about the unjust treatment of those who partake of a simple herb?

Wow getting arrested for doing illegal activates is now ‘unjust’



Quote:
The how can you comment on something you obviously don't care about, and for that matter have any insight into, and know nothing save your own personal feelings? Since when did that become "Fact?"

I never said I don’t care about the issues, I said I don’t care about the people. Last I checked it was a fact that marijuana is illegal, not a personal opinion.

Quote:
Addicts, now there is one I love to debate on. Please prove that they are addicts. Please give me a non-government sponsored study from a credited source with another supporting source. I'll give you my two.

Sure it’s not physically addicting, but there are many types of addiction, I know about 3 marijuana addicts that have used for over 10 years, no force on earth could make them stop using. They are addicts.
But allow me to say this ONE MORE TIME. I am not against the legalization of marijuana, I am against people who blatantly break the law and then try to justify themselves by copying and pasting crap from the internet.
For a completely non-addictive substance you would think people would have the slightest bit of self control over it and could wait 5 years until it is legal.
#37 Jul 05 2004 at 7:52 PM Rating: Good
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Yup.
I could just post a long boring message like I did last time, refute everything point for long boring point again (especially the part about making rape legal), but who cares? Really, this is pointless. Although I am glad that you would support certain aspects of the issue, we'll never see eye to eye on the subject. No more long winded posts full of boring information. Simple. I can already tell that no one here wants to read this crap anyway.
I apologized for my asshattery in my 1st two posts, so I'm leaving it at that.
Now can we please get back to di'ck and fart jokes?

Edit: DAMN YOU FILTER!!!!

Edited, Mon Jul 5 20:53:51 2004 by Molish
#38 Jul 05 2004 at 7:54 PM Rating: Default
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One can't fault the officers for being prepared, what if two uniformed officers politely knocked on the door and arrested the inhabitants, sure it's more cost effective but the chances an officer will be killed in the process increase immensely. If you were an officer and told you had to arrest a known drug dealer in the area wouldn’t you feel better with body armor and an Uzi? Better safe then sorry.

A small time pot dealer? No, I'd feel silly.

I also wouldn't bring a SWAT team to arrest someone for Jwalking.

We're not talking about a crackhouse in a gnag neighborrhood or a meth lab run by the Hells Angels. Using the same tactics as you would in those situations is unwarrnated and waste.

It's a few vice cops with Rambo syndrome. What's the fear? That the 20 year old middle class white kid selling pot's going to come at you with guns blazing?

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#39 Jul 05 2004 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What's the fear? That the 20 year old middle class white kid selling pot's going to come at you with guns blazing?


Yeah Smash, because middle class white kids have never came out with Guns blazing.

They were under surveilance since April, so my guess is that the officers had some reason to believe they needed to take the action that they took.

Edited, Mon Jul 5 21:11:54 2004 by Krogsbrew
#40 Jul 05 2004 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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Once again for why the cops went SWAT on Kelvy's *** i will refer you to my above post:
Quote:
They hit up small timers like you and try to put the fear of God into you with the Gestapo sh*t like breaking your door down and coming in with full Swat gear because they will hope to shake you down and get someone higher up the chain.

If they came in all sunshine and smiles and busted you and were like all you are gonna get is a slap on the wrist they would get nothing.


Same reason they prob had eye on his place for awhile trying to get lead on someone higher up the chain, nothing was happening for leads so they come in and try to scare the ***** out of Kelvy and company and make it seem like he is in more trouble than he is so he will snitch on people higher up.
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#41 Jul 05 2004 at 8:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Mrens, Eater of Souls wrote:

Hurt no one? Didn’t we establish the fact that he was a drug dealer


Where exactly was that established? I only read something about the police charging him with distribution because he had some scales. Owning scales does not make one a dealer. Back in the day I used to have several sets of scales floating around. But I have never sold drugs to anyone.
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#42 Jul 05 2004 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Did anyone else other than "my **** doesn't stink fuc[/b]king ******* holier than thou militant **** head ******" Mrens and Stok get that I was complaining or saying that I had been treated unfairly?

I wrote:
Quote:
but then I just told them that they were doing their job..


yeah... really sounds like I felt like I didn't legally deserve to be punished..

..and Mrens, All that ******** about why don't we just make Rape legal because of how much money that we spend on stopping it is the biggest heap of stupidity I've ever seen..

Quote:
I simply have 0 respect for addicts who can’t control their own damn habit despite it being against the law. If you want to change a few laws to get marijuana legalized by all means, go ahead, I will even support you. But don’t sit around on your *** doing nothing then the second you actually get busted for it have the gal to start ******** about ‘How you were wronged because pot should be legal’ if idiots like you would treat your cause as nothing more then a convient excuse for why you couldn’t keep your bong hole shut, pot would probably be legal by now.


This statement proves that you are nothing more than a MeatHead... You can't see beyond your own nose. PLEASE show me where in this thread you perceive that I am asking for sympathy at being treated unfairly by the evil empire of America? sounds to me like the only thing in your miserable life you have to be proud of is your squeeky clean blood stream and your perfect little happy microcosm that you think makes you a better person than "drug addicts" like me.

I guess that you think the government could never be wrong about anything and that the President is Julius fuc[b]
king Caesar reincarnated and smile and wave at police officers as they drive by and nod to your Donna Reed wife and say "Yup sweety... we sure are safe from those evil lefties".


It sems to me that had you been alive during the days of slavery you would have the same oppinion of abolitionists...and would have been the type of scum to turn in escaped slaves...

YEs there is a BIG differnce between people like me and people like you. You are a Drone on the conveyor belt..plain and simple....and cannot concieve of anything other than waht you were taught by another person or read in a text book. Your kind discusts me. YOu have no more value on this planet than any other workbench or power saw, you are indeed a "tool".

I'm not done, but I have better things to do at the moment.... but I say again Mrens.. you are a TOOL.

OH yeah.. Tricky
Quote:
I don't think potheads are viscious criminals, but I do think they're pretty damn stupid.

Doyou mean all of them... or the ones that get caught?

Edited, Mon Jul 5 21:57:13 2004 by Kelvyquayo
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#43 Jul 05 2004 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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Mren is a tool. Nice avatar though. But yep he is a tool.


Did i mention he is a tool? Because he is, a tool i mean
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#45 Jul 05 2004 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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No only am I a tool, but apparently I’m a TOOL!

You can call me a leftist, tool, MeatHead, and Drone, but at by the end of the month only one of us will be in prision :)


Edited, Tue Jul 6 00:22:08 2004 by Mrens
#46 Jul 05 2004 at 11:24 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You can call me a leftist, tool, MeatHead, and Drone, but at the end of the month only one of us will be in jail :)


Well first he probably is not gonna go to jail for what he got busted for.

Secondly if he did (which is highly unlikely) he would get out eventually and move on, you on the other hand stand a good chance of being a f'ucking d'ick for the rest of your life.

Which one is the greater wrong: smoking a bit of pot or being an *** clown for life?



Edited, Tue Jul 6 00:25:00 2004 by bhodisattva

Edited, Tue Jul 6 00:35:50 2004 by bhodisattva
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#47 Jul 06 2004 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Even though I'm staying out of this, I still like the way it's going :)

Hey War, didn't he also just say
Don't do school
And Stay in drugs?

(TV funhouse is wacked out. I love the one where they get all cracked out on Chritmas cheer.)
#49 Jul 06 2004 at 7:04 AM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
Did anyone else other than "my sh*t doesn't stink ******* @#%^ holier than thou militant @#%^ head ******" Mrens and Stok get that I was complaining or saying that I had been treated unfairly?


Quote:
Here I am, another victim of the 'war' on drugs.


You are not a victim, you are one of the reasons that we have a war on drugs!


Oh for the love of Bob!


********** police. Yet another reason why marijuana needs to be legal.[/b]

I really can't believe they waste this type of manpower, money, time, help clog an already tied up court system, and for what?!!? to bust someone who enjoys the statis devrived from a plant that god himself put on this planet for the purpose of consumption? Then offers advice on how to beat the system.

They hit up small timers like you and try to put the fear of God into you with the Gestapo sh*t like breaking your door down and coming in with full Swat gear because they will hope to shake you down and get someone higher up the chain.

All these statements are the source for my comments, besides the fact I was in law enforcement for 12 years, of course that was a life time ago. Regarding Smash's and others comments about the procedure the cops used, it is just that procedure. The police most likely had to go in there in that manner because of standard operating procedures on the chance that one of the people in the house or apartment may be capable and willing to take the situation to the next level.





#50 Jul 06 2004 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Nope, never seen it high. Did it for about a year back in Highschool, had my fun with it for awhile. I still hang with my good friends that do it, might even partake once in a blue moon (last time was about 2 years ago).
Now the half-baked line made me crack up. :)
John Stewart was funny in his little part.
But the 2 funniest things I think I'll read this month are

Quote:
You are not a victim, you are one of the reasons that we have a war on drugs!

&
Quote:
Then offers advice on how to beat the system.


I tell ya, those cracked me up more then War's posts on TV fun house.

But yea, I'm staying out of it.

Edited, Tue Jul 6 08:27:49 2004 by Molish
#51 Jul 06 2004 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Glad to know that my tax dollars are being spent to round up all you hardened criminals. Who knows what you would have done if you'd smoked all that pot!

Oh wait ... raid the fridge, giggle, listen to music, play video games and eventually pass out and oversleep ...

Miscreants you are, I say!
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