Iraq worse off than befoer the War, GAO says.Follow

Yes, that Miles Standish. He is famous (or at least I thought he was) for saying if they shall not work, they shall not eat. It was due to his iron will and foresight that the Pilgrims survived a series of harsh winters.

Totem

It is perfectly possible to be both patriotic and ashamed at certain actions in one's nation's history.

Right off the top of my head, I recall that Dresden was allowed to be bombed into the Stone Age to keep the Germans from possibly knowing we had broken their codes and we were aware of other more significant and strategic/operational targets we could bomb but were not supposed to know anything about. It was about sacrificing lives so the larger plan would remain intact.

Correct me if I am wrong, since it's been a while since I even put any thought towards Dresden.

Totem

If everyone did this there would be no society. Maybe my morals are different than your's but I do believe it is everyone's responsibility to contribute to society in some way or another. I'm all for helping people out, but I like to view it as helping them achieve everything that they are capable of. I do not like the idea of helping someone leach off of the public.

I think the idea of living on welfare all your life is directly in opposition to the American dream. There are places in the world that no matter how hard you work, you will never be anything but poor. This is not one of them.

I'm not saying it's easy to go from the ghetto to the penthouse, but it's possible. There's a lot of help out there, most of it gov't funded, that are focused on improving the lot of poor or underpriviliged individuals. Pell Grant and subsidized Stafford loans for example - they were around long before Welfare to Work and I personally I think they are a much better idea. I think most people would rather work in a career that pays them enough to live and raise their kids comfortably than be "helped" (forced) to find a job that pays them just enough that they no longer qualify for welfare.

Every time there's an election, politicians wave the flag of childhood education, oh let's make sure no child's left behind, all the public schools are funded, etc. For once I'd like to see the education ticket focused on adults - because educated adults are more likely to be concerned about the education of their children. I've worked with a lot of kids as a tutor and mentor and 99% of the time the problem could be alleviated or at least lessened by a little parental involvement.

I admit I don't like the "check in the mail" part of welfare. However I'd have absolutely no problem paying the same or even more taxes to pay for people to be trained in jobs that are worth doing. As I understand it such programs are out there right now but the criteria to get in is far too strict; must be a displaced homemaker or not speak English or something (and heaven help you if you're a male Caucasian, you qualify for nothing unless you have 8 kids).

Maybe I'm an idealist, I have no idea if any of this would work in the real world; maybe it would be cost-prohibitive. I still think most people would be happier earning their own way so long as that way was better than they could get from welfare. If not, why bother?

I know all of this because I speak from experience.


Are you implying that not only are you a Moonie, but you're also were a poor republican??

You're insane man!!

Of course I could always close up shop and start asking for my monthly welfare check.


Smile when you say that. Or at least wait untill you a turn a profit :P

There have been several replies that I have erased because what ever way they'd be stated someone would perceive the message incorrectly. So let me say this, you have an idea so the best thing to do with that doable solution is run for office yourself or go to your local representative and pitch it to him or her. But having a solution and not sharing it appropriately will not help anyone, especially not here in the Assylum.

Nooooooo!

On this issue, maybe. I still believe the adage "God helps those who help themselves," but being forced to pound the pavement until you get a minimum wage job like these Welfare-to-Work programs want people to do isn't helping anyone. If that makes me a Democrat, I guess I'm guilty as charged. I thought it was just common sense.

Valky wrote,



No one forces anyone to do anything. Just like I didn't force some mindless idiot to have 3 children before the age of 21. So if these parents that have made poor decisions and have to leave their kids with their parents or some other relative while they both work a minimum wage job until they can get something better that's the lot they've chosen.

The current day welfare system, courtesy of roosevelt, has done more to enslave black americans than the south ever could have. No dads in the house, 70% birth out of wedlock rate, you tell me should these people who have no idea what to do with money given to them steal more of my money because some half-wit government socialist tells me it's for the kids?

Varus



Edited, Thu Jul 1 10:35:03 2004 by varrussword

I'm not sure that was a racist statement. Pointing out that something is racist doesn't make you one.

I've observed this first hand. The valedictorian in my graduating class made nothing more out of herself than an unwed mother. Not a lack of potential. Not a lack of brains or drive. Social pressure. It was socially acceptable for her to get pregnant and on the dole. It was less acceptable to go to college, get a degree and a career than to become a single stay at home welfare mother. Nobody FORCED her to do that. But the pressures were there and real.

Especially in small southern towns, there is a lot of old money. And it's not going anywhere. And if you don't fit in with what the old money wants, you're just out of the loop. A lot of it is low profile, but it's very real.

Lack of education, widespread dependancy on welfare, easy money from illegal activities, reluctant acceptance of legitimate activities....all of these things contribute to a lingering socio-economic gap. That gap is closing, but is by no means gone.

The truth is that the welfare system is horrible. It costs more to administrate it than it does to take care of the people on it. And it is a self-perpetuating system. When entire communities exist on it, then it is reasonable to expect a continuation of that existence.

I'd love to see a gradual phaseout of welfare. I'd pay higher taxes gladly if we could phase out welfare and phase in free education. Let anyone in the country walk into any university and enroll for free. No BS paperwork, just free education.
I know it wouldn't work, by the way. There will always be people on the dole. Some people prefer it.

Last time I looked, which has been a few years, there were more total white people on welfare than black. For the record.

There may be more white people on welfare but what are the statistics in comparison to how many white there are in the country. Whites comprise 71% of the population and Blacks comprise I believe it was 22% so of those numbers how many of each population are on welfare? Numerically speaking of course there are going to be "more" whites on welfare but what percentage of the total compared to the total number of blacks are on welfare. That is the statistic you need to look at for the record.



It's not racism if the statements are true and can be proven by facts and statistics. Instead of calling the person racist why not ask them to back up the statement.

How ever on the same topic does Bill Cosby making the same statement make him a racist as well, or someone that recognizes the situation as it truly is... a problem that needs to be fixed, and the best way to fix it is for the people with the problem to address it and change.