IDIOTSFollow

IN trying to explain some of the gist of the Moore movie, I am battered by right-wing retoric.

I tell them that the public was lied to, that we didn't need to go to Iraq... they say:

"OHH, So you'd prefer to leave a dictator in power??!, you're not Glad that we got rid of him.. what's wrong with you??
That's not the point people!!! the point is that we were lied to. The point is that it's all bullshyte.

I tell them that our troops don't have to be dying for oil. They say:

"BUT they're being attacked right Now!, we have to fight.. Look how many of our troops the Iraqis are killing!"
No ****..but onve again.. WHY are we there? fools

I tell people how happy all of the coorperations are and how much money that they stand to gain.. and how they knew somthing was going to happen, somthing big.... but that all they were doing was waiting for the right moment like 9/11 to really go for the gusto.... and they did it.. and are now making lot's and lot's of money. I tell people this and they RESPECT IT!.

Their veiw is that Bush is doing everything right.

They understand that He is sending our troops to Die and Suffer for Buisness. They understand that We have been lied to. They understand that the whole administration is a whole lot of icing for the corporate cake that those affiliated with the Bush Aristocracy have baked for themselves. They understand it perfectly clear.... for the most part...
and they say it is OK.

They say: "OH, you want to be paying $10 a gallon for gas??"
"OH!, you want more terrorist attacks?? they hit here once!"

They say: " IT it truly AMERICAN, to get Rich off of the Poor. They say that Bush is actually doing Everything right... because it's working; for him, and for his buisnesses and all of their partners. They say that I'm just jeolous because I'm not sharing in the gain.. They say I'm a fool because I don't see that these companies that are profiting over my fellow Americans deaths are helping me, because they are making more money now.. and they can provide better Services, and provide more jobs, and everything is swell and the way it should be, because this is the way it is, and ther's nothing we can do about it."

So it seems to me that the general public doesn't really care about the true Morals of the whole thing

They understand that the "Man in Charge" is making money... in the true blue American way... which is stepping on piles of poor and dis-illusioned to get to the top.
Yes they understand that it is just buisness, and they respect it.... if I argue with that, then I am arguing with the entire basis of our society: GREED/POWER. If I started of in that direction, it turns into a religious/philosophical debate, which transcends all of this nonsence anyway.. I'm seeing their point that by the terms of our world and our nations that (I say again) it is OK to send out troops to Die for MONEY. How can I argue it??

I cannot argue with that, with people who accept that war is OK when it is for nothing but MONEY. Yet, if I blantently say it directly like that, they prattle on about national security.. ignoring the facts and them accuse me of believing over-hyped leftist propaganda.... They accuse me of "believing anything I see".. i find that highly ironic....

I realize that I cannot personally back-up the points stated in Moore's film, but for a long, long time I have already had the same notions.... without reading "left" books... while watching FOX news.. along with CNN, MSNBC, CSPAN... I watch and listen to it all. I believe next to none of it. I intake it all and assume that most of everything I hear are lies; until inmy mind I compare it with all of the other "lies" I hear.. and when you hear enough sides lying about the same thing.. the truth becomes aparent....

..and as I watch all of the conservative cheerleaders and right-wing lackys srammbling in a truffle shuffle dance to bash Moore in anyway that they can.. the patheticness of the whole stae of everything, just makes me want to smoke a cigarette.(which I'm not)

/rant off

for now.. i have to get to fu[/b]cking work



BTW, I'm still looking through all of the MOORELIES and MOOREWATCH sites... and am digging for any clear lies that he is telling.... all I see is [b]mud-slinging about how he's a "hypocrite because he's rich"... he's a "hypocrite because he's fat"
PLEASE please please.. I welcome links.. posts.. arguments taht will make me feel that this current administration's top priorities are the Good of the American people.. PLEASE.. Make me a believer... becasue at the moment... we're fooked.
BTE.. Kerry seems to suck too.
It all sucks.

Wow, waht a juggernaught of a post. [lol]

Edited, Mon Jun 28 09:44:37 2004 by Kelvyquayo

Ok, so, Kel, that justifies Moore playing fast and loose with the facts then too? That if not out-and-out lies by Moore, but by using half truths this will correct the problem?

I don't think so.

Totem

I have never objected to Moore making money for doing what he does for a living-- after all he is a filmmaker.

But if I understand what you are saying is "do as I say, not as I do," then any moral unction behind his and your words is lost for pure hypocrisy.

Look, let me make myself clear. I have no problem with Moore maing this film. What I have a problem with is it being marketed as a documentary-- a term lending itself to the definition of objective reporting --without a balanced response being played immediately before or after it. It is, for all practical purposes, an hour and half long political commercial. If the Bush lovers produced something like this at this point in the political season and placed it in theaters across the nation the outcry would be deafening from the Left. But because it furthers their agenda, nobody from that side makes a sound except for the noise of the clapping of their hands.

So, in that light I can understand why there was pressure to change the rating of this film, to prevent it's accessibility, and to blunt it's effects on the public by the Right.

In the end you will claim it was wrong for Bush to have gone to war under faulty premises, using half truths, complete falsehoods, and disinformation, but willingly believe that it is just fine to combat those evils with equally faulty premises, using half truths, complete falsehoods, and disinformation.

Good job punching youself in the balls as well, Kel. You've just negated anything worthwhile you had to say.

Totem

Yes, I am equating a filmmaker and a president's actions as being the same. Integrity is integrity. Being a movie director doesn't mean honesty and integrity are any less important.

Good job on punching those rapidly swelling balls a second time. Perhaps a bag of ice might be in order?

Totem

Best point I've heard since this film came out.

Let's face it folks. The writing is on the wall.

Bush is going down. Beating up on Michael Moore is not going to stop that.

Eb

Care to put your money where your mouth is, pickle?

Totem

LOL Jophiel.

Jophiel, I saw that documentary and it was clearly slanted in favor of the suit. The love of the suit simply oozed off the screen.

You bring morals into this as if Bush is the first President to lie to people, or omit information. Open your fu[/u]cking eyes. All politicians lie.

And morals.... So let me get this straight. Morally its wrong for the president to lie. But morally it is ok for a Left Wing sh[u]it-slinger to lie. News flash. Lying is lying. Its wrong either way.

Edited, Mon Jun 28 12:48:36 2004 by spawned

No shi[/b]t. All polititians lie. Bush isn't the first... blah blah.. clinton wasn't the first to get head in the white house... blah blah..
[b]Does that mean that it should BE ACCEPTED???


Everyone seems to think that this is as good as it can get.
That there is no way anything could get better.
That we should be happy with waht we have.
That we should settle for waht we have and stop complaining.

Well fuc[b][/b]k all that noise.

I'll quote some Rage,

"settle for nothing now, settle for nothing later"

There is no compaaring....

YOu are saying somthing is Good becasue is is better than somthing worse???
That is poor logic.

and I'm out of breath form typing so fast.



United States of Angmar?

Edited, Mon Jun 28 13:23:13 2004 by Kelvyquayo

Yeah, I figure the Left needed some religious fervor so we're militant pagans now.

Eb

I am not saying it should be accepted. It just seems to me that so many of the Left want Bush out of office so badly that they are willing to accept the lies put up against him and his administration, such as those depicted in Mr. Moores film. If Kerry is voted in, there will be just as many problems, they will just be of a different nature.

I dont support many of the decisions Pres. Bush or his administration . However, I am also not ready to vote for a canidate that uses the same type of lies and misinformation to put its postion across(I.E. Kerry).

I will most likely vote for Bush again because I feel all his shortcomings are already on the table. I will not vote for someone who is just as underhanded. Then have to wait for 2 years into Kerry's term to see the evidence in effect.

I feel they are both equal in terms of dishonest practice.

Edited, Mon Jun 28 14:10:40 2004 by spawned

That was one of my original points.

Many I have talked to say that basically:

If he has the power to do it, than he can do it, because he is President and a buisnessman who is trying to make money.
He is succeeding in doing it and he is doing it well.
Kudos to the Bush administration for doing waht they do best.

It all really is a matter of oppinion, and is close to the surface of conflicts that exist in human nature.

...this movie didn't sway me.. I was already swayed..... Yes this mean I went in there with my oppinion already formed.

I'm quite aware that man is generally evil and selfish.. sure.. and we can't bring justice to everyone.
So you say:
"Why should we Blame everything on him?? he's not the only one"

I say because we can. The corruption is beyond blatant, as is the naivety of the public.

Take the log out of my own eye?
So If I commit murder, that means that it's not right for me to condemn somone else for murder? Murder is bad whether Mother Theresa tells you that.. or Ted Bundy. It is still waht it is.