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#102 May 12 2004 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Reinman wrote:
I think what underlies what he is saying is that it is not right for some rich prick to be sitting in his condo in Maui, making decisions to send men to their death like they are resources and not people.


You are absolutely correct. However, it is the absolute right of the President of the United States, when given authority by an Act of Congress, to make those exact decisions. What part of the Constitution are you unclear on?


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It's like me saying, I am willing to sacrifice someone else's life to achieve my goals, but not my own, and therefore how can anyone really take my opinion seriously.


Sure. But that's not what's happening. In this case, I am merely pointing out that the President does have the power and the right to do that, and in this case, I believe he's justified in those actions. *I* am not making that decision. He is. I'm simply supporting that decision. I assume that I have the right to express my support for a decision made by the President, right?


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If you can't say that you would give your own life for something, then you have no right to send someone else to their death, otherwise you are the hypocrite, and you are the one with the double-standard.


Wrong wrong wrong. I have all the right in the world to express my opinions (it's in the first ammendment. Look it up if you want). The President has the right to command the United States military, doubly so when Congress gives him War Powers (as they did). There is absolute zero requirement for military service for someone to serve as president. Thus, that "right" does not hinge on military service at all. It hinges purely on one being elected to the office of President of the United States of America.


Just because the real world doesn't happen to match your wild notions is not my problem. If you want to debate the issues of the justification for the war in Iraq, please feel free to do so. But to argue that the other guy has no "right" to make a point because of a lack of military service is just pathetic. Address my arguments based on their merits. If my position is totally off in left field, then come up with a counter argument. If you can't do that, then don't try to pull up some bogus issue about my qualifications to argue a point. Obviously, if you can't come up with a better refutation of my argument then that, then I must be pretty darn qualified to argue it, military service or not...
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#103 May 12 2004 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
gbaji

You said
" Oh no! But the media is telling us what's "really happening". They're the voice of the common man. They're telling you what the corporate/government fat cats don't want you to know. Really!

Ummm ! Well Why does the Media Insist on providing a Daily body count months after the major conflict has ended? Why the every-hour-on-the-hour death totals? With Long, Somber faces the networks report, "Today,two more soldiers were ambushed and died in Iraq." What are we supposed to do with that information?
Think about it.

Why don't these Journalists give us a dialy body count resulting
from Car crashes? Did you know the number of deaths on American highways far exceeds the number of deaths related to the defense of our Nation? In 2002, 42,815 Americans died in auto related crashes. That's 117 deaths every day. Which means virtually the same number of people die each day on our highways as have died in the entire period of active combat in Iraq.

I think it is to Demoralize the resolve of the people and our troops. It is to erode American support for the President in his war on terrorism. Period.

Democrat Congressman Jim Marshall went to Iraq to see our progress for himslef and returned angered by the way the media has been distorting the news. Contrary to most reports, he found our troops to be Encouraged, Energized, and making amazing strides in restoring order and rebuilding infrastructure.

Marshall said, "I'm afraid the news media are hurting our chances. They are dwelling upon the mistakes, the soldiers killed, the wounded... The falsely bleak picture weakens our natinoal resolve, discourages Iraqi cooperation and emboldens our enemy."

Thanks to the warped picture of reality by the media, the polls have shown remarkable post-war drop in support for the president.

That's another reason why I think the military should do a media blackout.


Blackout, I think they should do one better, and lie to us! "Many American soldiers will not be returning home from the war, as many have found lovely Iraqi women and have plans of raising families in America's great new empire!"

Yea, works for me!

Edited, Wed May 12 22:42:56 2004 by Reinman
#104 May 12 2004 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
Friar Reinman

I don't think you read my Previous Post. So why don't you go back and check it out. its on Page 2 somewhere in the middle.
#105 May 12 2004 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
Ok, I am not going to change my last post, but at least I don't think you are an idiot anymore. Everyone need to know what is happening over there, but I agree those money grabing bastards are spinning it to maximize profits, and that is just sick.
#106 May 12 2004 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Quote:

If you can't say that you would give your own life for something, then you have no right to send someone else to their death, otherwise you are the hypocrite, and you are the one with the double-standard.




Wrong wrong wrong. I have all the right in the world to express my opinions


You lost the debate right here, but I am not even going to go in for the kill. You have the right to express your opinions, but if this is your opinion, then nobody is going to listen to you anyway, so it is inconsequential.
#107 May 13 2004 at 12:51 AM Rating: Decent
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My point is people should put their money where their mouth is. That's all. Not too much to ask.
Yes it is too much to ask when your basicly saying you must have done the job to have an opinion on it.

I think that Atlantic cod are over fished... but wait i have never been a fisherman so i can't have an opinion on it.

I think UK firemen are overpaid greedy bastards.... but wait i have never been a fireman so i can't have an opinion on it.

dumb arguement IMHO.

#108 May 13 2004 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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Friar Reinman wrote:
You lost the debate right here, but I am not even going to go in for the kill. You have the right to express your opinions, but if this is your opinion, then nobody is going to listen to you anyway, so it is inconsequential.


Ah... which is why my "opinion" has resulted in a three page thread... got it.

Look. You "lose the debate" when you stop actually arguing your position and you start trying to make the debate about the people debating. I could be a mentally retarded street bum at the tail end of a 20 year alchohol bender, but if my argument is sound then it's sound. If you can't refute the argument based on the argument itself, then you "lose". See how that works?
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#109 May 13 2004 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Ah... which is why my "opinion" has resulted in a three page thread... got it.

The war in Iraq resulte in many many three or more page posts.

No one gives a fu[b][/b]ck about your individual oppinion. Particluarly where it's nearly indistinguishable from the White House's.

Trust me on this.
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To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#110 May 13 2004 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
No one gives a fu[b][/b]ck about your individual oppinion. Particluarly where it's nearly indistinguishable from the White House's.


Lol... Yet more double standard. So if my opinion isn't rabidly opposed to the position of the government, it has no value or is of no interest?

Got it. I'll remember that the next time you argue that we can't have prayer in school because that's a violation of the 1st amendment... After all, only those opposed to the lawful execution of the Constitution of the US have a right to an opinion, at least according to you...
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#111 May 13 2004 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Lol... Yet more double standard. So if my opinion isn't rabidly opposed to the position of the government, it has no value or is of no interest?

No, it's just redundant.


Quote:

Got it. I'll remember that the next time you argue that we can't have prayer in school because that's a violation of the 1st amendment... After all, only those opposed to the lawful execution of the Constitution of the US have a right to an opinion, at least according to you...

Never said you didn't have a right to an oppinion, moron. Just that no one happened to give a fuc[b][/b]k to this particular oppinion as it brought nothing new to the discussion and was available 24 hours a day on Fox News.

Learn to read.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#112 May 13 2004 at 6:38 PM Rating: Good
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Really? I could have sworn that Fox News is one of the groups most pushing the idea that we went to war with Iraq to find and destroy their WMD? Now I could have sworn the objective of this thread to show that that wasn't why we went to war?

Hmmm...

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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#113 May 13 2004 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Ah... which is why my "opinion" has resulted in a three page thread... got it.


Lol like there arent any other long stupid threads here =P, but I will give you this its the first time I recall you actually starting the debate.
#114 May 13 2004 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Really? I could have sworn that Fox News is one of the groups most pushing the idea that we went to war with Iraq to find and destroy their WMD?

Oh no. They're saying we went to war to end the reign of the tyrannical Saddam who used WMD on his own people and was eeevil eeeeeeeeeeevil.

You know, the exact same arguments you make.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#115 May 13 2004 at 8:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
[quote]Shoot us a one sentance summary please.


From gbaji? You've gotta be f*cking kidding...
#116 May 14 2004 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
Quote:

Really? I could have sworn that Fox News is one of the groups most pushing the idea that we went to war with Iraq to find and destroy their WMD?

Oh no. They're saying we went to war to end the reign of the tyrannical Saddam who used WMD on his own people and was eeevil eeeeeeeeeeevil.

You know, the exact same arguments you make.



Again then. Why do you (and many many others) keep arguing that since we didn't find any completed, assembled, and launch-ready WMD in Iraq, that the war was somehow unjustified?

It's a simple issue. You either understand that the war was not about finding WMD in Iraq (present tense to the initial conflict), or you don't. Which is it?
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King Nobby wrote:
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#117 May 14 2004 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Again then. Why do you (and many many others) keep arguing that since we didn't find any completed, assembled, and launch-ready WMD in Iraq, that the war was somehow unjustified?

It's a simple issue. You either understand that the war was not about finding WMD in Iraq (present tense to the initial conflict), or you don't. Which is it?

The reason given for the war was the threat of Iraq to the US. The only threat Iraq posed to the US was via WMD.

It's a simple chain of cause and effect. Surely, even you, can understand it?

Remove WMD from the equation and we don't go to war in Iraq. Congress doesn't pass the resolution, 800 US troops are still alive.

Which word don't you understnad?
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#118 May 14 2004 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
The war on Iraq was primarly presented as part of "the war on terror" a part of that was cause Saddam supposedly had WMD the other part was that he was funding and promoting terrorism in the world and against the US.

What has become blatantly clear is that he had nor was doing either of these things, and now you same Republicans who could give a **** about the poor and suffering in our country are left trying to justify the war as an ends to helping out the poor and the suffering in Iraq.

Roll back out the party platform. Btw this is so bad that on Fox news when I was flipping through the channels last night, the map of Iraq for how the war is going is captioned with "THE WAR ON TERROR", its not and it never was a war on Terror.

Another FYI, the Bushes sr and jr have killed or ordered killed at least as many Iraqis as Saddam ever did. Hmmm wonder why they might hate us as much as him?
#119 May 14 2004 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
I didn't know that 800 US troops died I thought it was only around 180 or 190. 800 where did you read that?
#120 May 14 2004 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't know that 800 US troops died I thought it was only around 180 or 190. 800 where did you read that?

I forget where I saw that.

Oh yeah, Every fu[b][/b]cking news source on the planet.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#121 May 14 2004 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
The reason given for the war was the threat of Iraq to the US. The only threat Iraq posed to the US was via WMD.


Nope. Not "the only reason" by a long shot. Again. Read the resolution. 23 "reasons" given. Only 9 even mention WMD. Only 2 of those mention them in the present tense (ie: WMD that Saddam has now, versus his past use of them, and potential future use of them).

Quote:
Remove WMD from the equation and we don't go to war in Iraq. Congress doesn't pass the resolution, 800 US troops are still alive.


Sure. If you remove WMD from the equation, we likely would not have gone to war with Iraq. But "WMD" as considered by Congress was not in any way limited to "WMD that Iraq has currently built, and with which Iraq could attack us with right now".

Thus. Not finding WMD ready to deploy in Iraq is *not* in any way an indication that the war wasn't justified. The "threat" of Iraq's WMD was primarily a future one. It was about what would likely happen if sanctions were lifted from Iraq, and Saddam was allowed to stay in power.


What part of that are *you* not understanding?
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King Nobby wrote:
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#122 May 14 2004 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Sure. If you remove WMD from the equation, we likely would not have gone to war with Iraq.


Quote:

Thus. Not finding WMD ready to deploy in Iraq is *not* in any way an indication that the war wasn't justified.


Righht. I see the logiks now, Sparky. Silly of me to think otherwise.

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The "threat" of Iraq's WMD was primarily a future one. It was about what would likely happen if sanctions were lifted from Iraq, and Saddam was allowed to stay in power.

Ahahahahahah.

why? Because you say so? I don't see that written anywhere in the resolution, said by anyone before the war, or even hinted at until....

NO WMD WERE FOUND.

Here's a simple test. If we had found 1000 nuclear warheads would the war have been justified? If the answer is yes then you need to rethink your position here, if the answer is no, you're just a moron.

Your call.

Edited, Fri May 14 18:05:23 2004 by Smasharoo
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#123 May 14 2004 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
I went here . http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119957,00.html


and Counted 630 , give or take a few, US troops from May 1 2003 to May 12 2004

You can count it for yourself.
#124 May 14 2004 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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Whereas Iraq’s demonstrated capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction, the risk that the current Iraqi regime will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States or its Armed Forces or provide them to international terrorists who would do so, and the extreme magnitude of harm that would result to the United States and its citizens from such an attack, combine to justify action by the United States to defend itself



Just in case you're curious, the words "will", and "would" are future tense. They're talking specifically about what could happen if the santions are removed without resolving the problem that caused them in the first place.

In case you're curious here's another:

Quote:
Whereas United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 (1990) authorizes the use of all necessary means to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 660 (1990) and subsequent relevant resolutions and to compel Iraq to cease certain activities that threaten international peace and security, including the development of weapons of mass destruction and refusal or obstruction of United Nations weapons inspections in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 (1991), repression of its civilian population in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 (1991), and threatening its neighbors or United Nations operations in Iraq in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 949 (1994)



If you bother to read the resolution, it's abundantly clear that they are concerned about the "development" of WMD by Iraq, and conclude that that amounts to a "continuing threat" to the security of the US.

No amount of news reporters insisiting that we're going into Iraq to "find and destroy WMD", makes that true. The truth is what is written in the resolution. While we certainly are going to try to find and destroy any WMD we find, that's not the reason we are there. Zero WMD still means that Iraq had the capability to build them, the desire to use them, and the past history showing they *would* use them. That's what made them a threat. Not numbers of currently available WMD. That's the misconception that many people have, and that's what I'm trying to change. It was never about numbers of WMD that Iraq had at any given moment. It was always about the threat that Iraq presented not just today, but in the future as well.


Why is that hard for you to understand? If the police serve a warrent to arrest someone on charges of murder, the fact that he doesn't have the gun on him does not mean that he didn't do it, nor does it mean that the warrent was wrong. It just means he didn't happen to have a gun on him at that moment...
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King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#125 May 14 2004 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:
[
Quote:
The "threat" of Iraq's WMD was primarily a future one. It was about what would likely happen if sanctions were lifted from Iraq, and Saddam was allowed to stay in power.

Ahahahahahah.

why? Because you say so? I don't see that written anywhere in the resolution, said by anyone before the war, or even hinted at until....



Just wanted to add. You didn't really read the resolution, did you?
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King Nobby wrote:
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#126 May 14 2004 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Just in case you're curious, the words "will", and "would" are future tense. They're talking specifically about what could happen if the santions are removed without resolving the problem that caused them in the first place.

No, you fuc[b][/b]king idiot. The word THOSE means the existing wepaons. Nowhere in the quote you referance does it mention the weapons existance in a future tense. Merely the use of the weapons.

Sadly for you, you don't get to arbitrarily add context to what's written down.

Try again, I'm ready for the next ******** attempt to add imaginary language to the resolution whenever you're ready.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

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