Well yeah, lets not even get on to TV evangelists. Those people absolutely disgust me, and if I believed then I would also believe they were the spawn of satan. The mind games they play on poor people (who are the main target audience for those channels, most wealthy people, assuming they are bright enough to get wealthy in the first place, would not fall for that crap) are an absolute disgrace.
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I do admit that the story doesn't appear the usual "I found God" story, but it's much better than the stories about dreams and visions that made a person turn Christian
Finding some tools in the most likely place in the house to find tools, while completely believable, is also a ludicrous reason to decide that God exists. Regardless of a prayer in a desperate situation.
There DO exist very convincing stories - they are more of the personality change type, the abusive husband finding the Lord and becoming a practical saint. The alcholic finding the lord and being delivered from her addictions etc.
I know you think I am an *** for ragging on Empyre's story, however while we are sharing experiences, I have had a bad experience with fundamental Christianity and have pretty strong opinions about it as a result. In MY experience and from MY observation, such organisations are very controlling and survive and grow strong by encouraging it's members to alienate themselves from society. Not in a direct way, it is indirect.
This is the mantra that is repeated and repeated, the hidden implication is that the MORE alientated you are, the more chosen by God you are. I mean look at Jesus! How persecuted was he!
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God said believers will always be persecuted for believing
Friends disowned you because you keep trying to make them see the light? God said believers will always be persecuted for believing. Parents disowned you because you turned your back on their own religion/upbringing? God said believers will always be persecuted for believing. Got passed over for promotion at work because you **** people off by shoving your beliefs down people's throats? God said believers will always be persecuted for believing. People on the message board being nasty to you? God said believers will always be persecuted for believing. You best know that WE love you, WE will always be here for you. Now get your wallet out and make this church stronger. And don't miss church on Sunday if you know what is good for you.
More subtle than that, but that is the basic underlying message.
By the end of my 3 years involved with a Pentecostal church, I was alienated from my family, and had no friends outside of the church. Being a sanctimonious prick has a tendency to alienate you from people. When your family and friend support structure starts to break down, your support structure becomes the church and you become highly reliant on it. I have ZERO friends from that period of my life that were not involved with the church. I have ZERO friends from that period of my life that are still involved with the church. It is like I lost those years. I wasn't speaking to my parents for months! This was not a cult people, this was a bog standard evangelical church like you get in every town. I can't have normal conversations about my latter teenage years to this day without feeling somewhat embarrassed. I don't even know what music I liked. Some happy clappy Christian crap no doubt.
Also this wasn't just a "bad egg" church. Fundamentalist Christianity is a big subculture, I have been to many different churches in different countries, christian festivals etc. It is like this all the way through. Same mantra's, same cliches, same degree of control. It wasn't just me either, I saw many people become ENTIRELY reliant on the church for their well being. I also saw people make "mistakes" and get disowned - two teenage lovers having sex, church found out, wham! Disowned. Well, church counselling was offered, with conditions such as they stop seeing each other alone. Control. Just an example.
And another thing, while I was involved, I really REALLY believed in it, I was equally ill-educated about Christianity as Empyre is, I also parroted what I heard the Pastor say or other church members say. This sort of thing is exactly the sort of thing I would have said when losing a rational argument:
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well some of us have chosen to believe, and in turn God has shown us he exists. i know that is difficult, and in most cases impossible, to except or understand..but if you cannot understand that, understand that there is a barrier between a believer and a non-believer
It is nonsense of course, but I also REALLY believed this to be true. Trying to pursuade a fundamentalist Christian that they are brainwashed and controlled is also pretty futile. You have to realise yourself. Of course the longer your involvement the more reliant you become on the church.
Finally, it isn't necessarily a bad thing for everyone. If you are already pretty alienated in society for whatever reason, and you don't happen to have a support structure of your own, then such Churches will provide one, which is better than nothing. However for your average well adjusted, intelligent and socially competant human being - especially if they are young and may find themselves in situations (new jobs, starting university etc) where they will need to build up a new network of supporty, then fundamentalist Christianity is a very very inhibiting and possibly damaging thing.
Woah. Did I need to get something off my chest!!
Edited, Mon Feb 16 15:34:58 2004 by Patrician