Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
You don't think you get your values from your parents and environment you grew up in?
Purely? Of course not.
Mostly? Yes. Let's not introduce absolutes, ok?
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Is that the conservative line now? "You're born into your lot via your parents so just accept that"? No room for personal growth or decisions? Just hand-wave all of a person's choices away with, what? Manifest destiny?
How the hell did you equate getting values from your parents with being stuck with whatever lot your parents are in? If the values your parents teach you are "don't bother trying to succeed", then yes, you're going to be likely to end out stuck in the same lot they were in. But that's not because all people universally are, but because you were taught to be. Way to completely miss the point I was making though.
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I suppose this fits in well with the "We'll save you by crushing welfare so you won't be born into it. Granted, you'll still be born into hunger and poverty but that'll give you just the spur you need to... well, wait, this doesn't fit at all.
Why did you stop? "That'll give you just the spur you need to become successful rather than wallowing in failure". Nothing wrong with that, and I'm perfectly willing to defend it. No need to pretend that we conservatives don't have an ending to that sentence. I know that the Left loves to mock this concept, but it's a pretty well established fact that people do actually tend to try harder when they have to and/or when it actually means something. But if you disagree, at least be man enough to say "this is what I disagree with" rather than pretending that there isn't even a position on the other side.
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I guess you'll stay poor and starving due to inertia and all that. No welfare though so that's good!"
Wrong. The belief is that in the absence of a safety net, more people will find ways to support themselves and their families and over time there will be less poverty and less hunger. They wont "stay poor and starving". They will succeed. See, we want to help people actually make something of themselves. Liberals, on the other hand, want to treat the poor like children who can't do anything on their own and require complete assistance to even put food in their mouths. Ridiculous!
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You're poor and hungry? Well, let's call it 20% lack of jobs or opportunities and 80% your lazy-*** parasite welfare mother didn't raise you right so you lack enough "inertia" and "values" to want a job. Also, you're too stupid to realize that more money would be a good thing -- again, this is all because of your bloodsucking family so don't blame yourself. Inertia, you know.
What I'm saying is that when your political agenda relies on the assumption that a whole set of people can't possibly succeed on their own, we shouldn't be surprised when some of them actually believe it. And that, over time, leads to an increase in the very problem you originally set out to address.