I was just lookin over the AH today, and of corse i see the uber-high prices on everything, so I decided to help the economy at my own gil's expence. What i did was buy all the Fire Crystal Stacks I could in jeuno (only 9 on auction, bought them all for 10k a peice), and to re-sell them for 5k a peice. I bought some of my own to show people the price, and soon the price history was filled with 5,000 gil. I can only hope other people follow the price history and sell them for 5k a stack again. I might do something like this again, but not on high-ticket items, such as SH or V.Cloak. (Mostly because I Can't afford it myself /cry). Anyway, that's it =P
~~Ivan
Edit: Well it looks like it didn't help...a few hours later the prices are back up to 10k...well at least I tried...
Edited, Thu Jan 12 22:15:12 2006 by Gsarivan
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Time to Act--How I helped the economyFollow
25 posts
If Cerberus wants to see lower prices again and try to combat gilsellers, then everyone needs to do their part. Even if people start whining about not getting as much gil for items, its gonna be better for the economy...
If you're looking for items at AH, and you can't get it for the price thats listed, then don't bid any higher for starters. Try to get the item AT or below the price listed. Otherwise just wait til either the price goes down, or try to farm the items needed to craft it and get a high lvl crafter to craft it for you.
If you're looking for items at AH, and you can't get it for the price thats listed, then don't bid any higher for starters. Try to get the item AT or below the price listed. Otherwise just wait til either the price goes down, or try to farm the items needed to craft it and get a high lvl crafter to craft it for you.
Scholar
18 posts
A valiant effort.
Unfortunately too many people are greedy. It would take a LOT of people to orchestrate a full-blown price drop, and maintain low prices.
And to be honest, it's not entirely the fault of gilsellers as everybody is so quick to suggest. They're just easy to blame.
They're usually perfectly content selling things at standard prices. The reason prices are so high is that too many people are jumping on the greed bandwagon. People like HNMLSs, for example, are just as much at fault as gilsellers.
One person puts something on the AH for far too much money, somebody desperate eventually buys it... Everybody sees it sold for that amount last, and puts it on for the same amount, or higher. It keeps going up, and up. =\ Very easy to make prices rise, much harder to drop them and keep them low.
Unfortunately too many people are greedy. It would take a LOT of people to orchestrate a full-blown price drop, and maintain low prices.
And to be honest, it's not entirely the fault of gilsellers as everybody is so quick to suggest. They're just easy to blame.
They're usually perfectly content selling things at standard prices. The reason prices are so high is that too many people are jumping on the greed bandwagon. People like HNMLSs, for example, are just as much at fault as gilsellers.
One person puts something on the AH for far too much money, somebody desperate eventually buys it... Everybody sees it sold for that amount last, and puts it on for the same amount, or higher. It keeps going up, and up. =\ Very easy to make prices rise, much harder to drop them and keep them low.
Yes, nice attempt, and 2 very nice replies!
As mentioned before, you HAVE to try to get your items for less than the listed price, or the price will never go down. This is especially true if there are a lot of a particular item on sale. Supply and demand does not work if the supply is high and you still try to pay full price.
Last night I listed a few spider webs (that went for 20k 3 weeks ago) on the AH for 25k. There were 25 already listed, and they were selling for 40k. I figure with so many on, I'd list mine for lower, sell them quicker. Everyone else would also start listing there's for less because there were so many on, right?
Wrong!! Five minutes later, in my delivery box, I find the 2 webs sold for 40k each. The moral of the story is someone paid 15k more per web than they needed to because they didn't try to get them for less than the history prices... even though there were several listed.
Slow down, quit rushing to craft, or fight, or whatever you're going to do with that AH item you're buying. Try to get it for less.
Quit pissing and moaning when someone undercuts your AH price and sells their item before yours sells even though you probably listed yours first.
It's greed and haste that are driving the prices up, not the gil sellers.
The real world economy DOES work by supply and demand. If prices go up in the game, the gil sellers have more gil to sell. This abundance of gil drives the real world price of gil down. This means the gil sellers will make $10 with low prices and they'll make $10 with high prices. It makes no difference to them.
It's the regular players like me and you that are killin the AH. Point the finger at ourselves. Everyone needs to stop being greedy, or stop complaining. You can't have it both ways.
As mentioned before, you HAVE to try to get your items for less than the listed price, or the price will never go down. This is especially true if there are a lot of a particular item on sale. Supply and demand does not work if the supply is high and you still try to pay full price.
Last night I listed a few spider webs (that went for 20k 3 weeks ago) on the AH for 25k. There were 25 already listed, and they were selling for 40k. I figure with so many on, I'd list mine for lower, sell them quicker. Everyone else would also start listing there's for less because there were so many on, right?
Wrong!! Five minutes later, in my delivery box, I find the 2 webs sold for 40k each. The moral of the story is someone paid 15k more per web than they needed to because they didn't try to get them for less than the history prices... even though there were several listed.
Slow down, quit rushing to craft, or fight, or whatever you're going to do with that AH item you're buying. Try to get it for less.
Quit pissing and moaning when someone undercuts your AH price and sells their item before yours sells even though you probably listed yours first.
It's greed and haste that are driving the prices up, not the gil sellers.
The real world economy DOES work by supply and demand. If prices go up in the game, the gil sellers have more gil to sell. This abundance of gil drives the real world price of gil down. This means the gil sellers will make $10 with low prices and they'll make $10 with high prices. It makes no difference to them.
It's the regular players like me and you that are killin the AH. Point the finger at ourselves. Everyone needs to stop being greedy, or stop complaining. You can't have it both ways.
Excellent points made, especially by Dewval. We all need to do our parts.
If everyone simply refused to pay those prices, the prices would drop. Unfortunately, not everyone will cooperate. I am doing my part by refusing to pay whatever outrageous price they may be asking. I know I am only one person, but it has to start somewhere.
If everyone simply refused to pay those prices, the prices would drop. Unfortunately, not everyone will cooperate. I am doing my part by refusing to pay whatever outrageous price they may be asking. I know I am only one person, but it has to start somewhere.
The biggest problem, imo, in the game economy is wealth disapirity (rich vs poor). Vana'diel economy is like the real one -- mostly driven by supply and demand. The economy is very trendy, it was not suprising that BLM SAM WAR gear are crazy price now, because everyone flock to those jobs. And there are people who are rich enough that really do not care about price hike -- this tends to not favor the newer / poorer players who also "follow" the trend. Demands > Supply and the people with better purchasing power are willing to pay the higher price to obtain the scarce item.
I myself also refuse to pay crazy price... usually. The way current price is, a lot of things are just simply unaffordable for me. When more people finally realize a certain item does not worth the price, the price will fall. Right now, I even know some people are buying things -- just to speculate the market like buying Yahoo and Goggle stocks.
A great way to improve the economy, imo, is urge people to go back to fundemental crafting and farming. Best to start influencing the price of Silent Oils and Yagudo Drinks first before trying to influence scarce and "leet" items as the former are easier to influence by changing the supply and demand. (The latter will always remain scarce)
I am not sure if I really added new things to this thread, but I try to say what I believe.
I myself also refuse to pay crazy price... usually. The way current price is, a lot of things are just simply unaffordable for me. When more people finally realize a certain item does not worth the price, the price will fall. Right now, I even know some people are buying things -- just to speculate the market like buying Yahoo and Goggle stocks.
A great way to improve the economy, imo, is urge people to go back to fundemental crafting and farming. Best to start influencing the price of Silent Oils and Yagudo Drinks first before trying to influence scarce and "leet" items as the former are easier to influence by changing the supply and demand. (The latter will always remain scarce)
I am not sure if I really added new things to this thread, but I try to say what I believe.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
I been on punishment for a while, but last time I was on the prices were just outragous, but only thing going in my mind was..ok buy something and wait for the price to go up..and then sell it^^ then I could afford a hauby for my SAM!...heh...heh...
-.-, well that plan didn't work. Well before my account was cancelled till my mom agreed to pay for it(damn she's smart), I snagged some Leapin Lizzy boots, was gonna sell them at a high price when I went back, as I read this fourm I sat here thinking wtf Zeo...It was wrong how I was thinking and it goes for the people who are thinking about me too as well. I really didn't think about people who couldn't afford the "good" stuff. We all were like that at some point, wishing we could afford something good like Haubergeon one day, then I went to see how much it was..omg 13 mil. That's almost like...impossible...maybe not impossible for people at I say..70+ who are capable of making that kind of gil in someway, but for the people who are just coming up. anyhow my point is ya I think it should change but this is what happens when the economy is like this.
P.S.- I'm going to sell my Leapin Lizzy boots when I get back for 3 mil, I believe that's how much I bought them for before I left. I kinda feel bad for buying them for the wrong reasons.
-.-, well that plan didn't work. Well before my account was cancelled till my mom agreed to pay for it(damn she's smart), I snagged some Leapin Lizzy boots, was gonna sell them at a high price when I went back, as I read this fourm I sat here thinking wtf Zeo...It was wrong how I was thinking and it goes for the people who are thinking about me too as well. I really didn't think about people who couldn't afford the "good" stuff. We all were like that at some point, wishing we could afford something good like Haubergeon one day, then I went to see how much it was..omg 13 mil. That's almost like...impossible...maybe not impossible for people at I say..70+ who are capable of making that kind of gil in someway, but for the people who are just coming up. anyhow my point is ya I think it should change but this is what happens when the economy is like this.
P.S.- I'm going to sell my Leapin Lizzy boots when I get back for 3 mil, I believe that's how much I bought them for before I left. I kinda feel bad for buying them for the wrong reasons.
Nice attempt. The first step in making prices go down is to make the crystals go down as you've tried - you're onto something. You notice, the higher they go, the higher the item it is synthed from. It is not entirely the cause, but I believe it's the best direction to move to. The greed will see what you're trying to do, and they will spite you and continue to sell at recent price.
Crystal prices are killing crafters, with that said I don't fault them for maintaining thier "break even" mentality.
Crystal prices are killing crafters, with that said I don't fault them for maintaining thier "break even" mentality.
You can't change the economy in the way you guys are speculating. Basically, the relationship between supply and demand and how an item's price is determined can also be phrased like this:
Value - An item's value is equal to what someone is willing to pay.
Price - An item's price is determined by the value, but also takes into account the velocity at which the sellers wants to sell the item.
You can lower the prices you are selling items for all you want, that's your decision, but you haven't actually changed the value of the item. Just because the history on an item might be changed down from 20k to 10k, that doesn't mean the buyer isn't willing to pay 20k, that just means he is getting a bargain.
That doesn't mean you should never post items at lower prices than the AH history. Some items may no longer have any buyers willing to pay that much, or there may be a lot more supply than buyers willing to pay that price. You have to speculate that for yourself on each item specifically.
Edited a bit for simplicity.
Edited, Sat Jan 14 12:09:43 2006 by NOiSEA
Value - An item's value is equal to what someone is willing to pay.
Price - An item's price is determined by the value, but also takes into account the velocity at which the sellers wants to sell the item.
You can lower the prices you are selling items for all you want, that's your decision, but you haven't actually changed the value of the item. Just because the history on an item might be changed down from 20k to 10k, that doesn't mean the buyer isn't willing to pay 20k, that just means he is getting a bargain.
That doesn't mean you should never post items at lower prices than the AH history. Some items may no longer have any buyers willing to pay that much, or there may be a lot more supply than buyers willing to pay that price. You have to speculate that for yourself on each item specifically.
Edited a bit for simplicity.
Edited, Sat Jan 14 12:09:43 2006 by NOiSEA
Hey Zeo if you read this next time you log on can I borrow those boots and any other nice melee stuff for my DRG. lol
-.-, I'll have to think about, although I do have a lot of mele stuff I been meaning to drop/sell/pass to my mule, I'll think about the boots tho, my WAR/THF uses them so..heh lol, make sure you lvl your sub too clifford
I should have a couple things you can have Clifford. I been meaning to get rid of it all. Got some melee food too, as far as the boots..maybe -.-, Before I was going to sell them I was gonna let my melee use them, that's if I sell them anyhow. Just a couple people won't make a difference on the economy. 4 or 5 people change the price on what they sell the certain Armor/Weapon/Item for, well that's good, but because of how many people on the server, it isn't gonna be a big deal.
I should have a couple things you can have Clifford. I been meaning to get rid of it all. Got some melee food too, as far as the boots..maybe -.-, Before I was going to sell them I was gonna let my melee use them, that's if I sell them anyhow. Just a couple people won't make a difference on the economy. 4 or 5 people change the price on what they sell the certain Armor/Weapon/Item for, well that's good, but because of how many people on the server, it isn't gonna be a big deal.
I should have a couple things you can have Clifford. I been meaning to get rid of it all. Got some melee food too, as far as the boots..maybe -.-, Before I was going to sell them I was gonna let my melee use them, that's if I sell them anyhow. Just a couple people won't make a difference on the economy. 4 or 5 people change the price on what they sell the certain Armor/Weapon/Item for, well that's good, but because of how many people on the server, it isn't gonna be a big deal.
o.0 posting issues Zeo?
lol
1 post got the point across then you had a longer triple post.
And Thank You for even thinking about sharing ur Boots if you ever lvl bard I can lend you my gear not that its that amazing lol.
lol
1 post got the point across then you had a longer triple post.
And Thank You for even thinking about sharing ur Boots if you ever lvl bard I can lend you my gear not that its that amazing lol.
wow just now checking...ya I had one. It kept saying like the website wasn't connecting so I tried a couple more times and said forget it ^^, I thought about lvling brd, I never tried it out and it seems fun, I might do so Cliff ^^
Another thought crossed my mind as I was playing the other day in regards to prices and the original price. Maybe it's not such a bad thing prices are spiraling out of control. Think of it this way...
Some people are saying the best thing to do is put a cap on AH prices. There is a cap, it's 99mil. If prices can continue to rise to the point that a stack of fire crystals cost 2mil, then the whole economy would balance out.
Fire crystals were about 3-4k/stack when I started playing, and was a good way for a new person to fund some low level armor. But to buy a 200k item, you had to farm and sell 50 stacks of crystals. There were other ways to make money, but at lvl 8 with no subjob, there weren't many options that were as profitable.
At the same time, there were several items on the auction house that were 1 or 2 million. Those items were 250 to 500 times the price of a stack of fire crystals. This is where the fun of inflation comes into play. If the prices were to rise to the point of fire crystals being 2mil a stack, the highest asking price for any item in the game on the AH would be only 50 times that.
Other items like spider webs would sell on AH for 8 to 10mil. All the prices will be unbelievable, but the top price of any listable item being only 99mil, everyone could afford anything they wanted with a little extra effort.
I've changed my tune. Bring on the inflation in unbelievable proportions, and we'll all be better off in the end!
(Okay, this may be a bit tongue in cheek, but it is where things are heading, and may not be as bad as it seems once it gets there.)
Some people are saying the best thing to do is put a cap on AH prices. There is a cap, it's 99mil. If prices can continue to rise to the point that a stack of fire crystals cost 2mil, then the whole economy would balance out.
Fire crystals were about 3-4k/stack when I started playing, and was a good way for a new person to fund some low level armor. But to buy a 200k item, you had to farm and sell 50 stacks of crystals. There were other ways to make money, but at lvl 8 with no subjob, there weren't many options that were as profitable.
At the same time, there were several items on the auction house that were 1 or 2 million. Those items were 250 to 500 times the price of a stack of fire crystals. This is where the fun of inflation comes into play. If the prices were to rise to the point of fire crystals being 2mil a stack, the highest asking price for any item in the game on the AH would be only 50 times that.
Other items like spider webs would sell on AH for 8 to 10mil. All the prices will be unbelievable, but the top price of any listable item being only 99mil, everyone could afford anything they wanted with a little extra effort.
I've changed my tune. Bring on the inflation in unbelievable proportions, and we'll all be better off in the end!
(Okay, this may be a bit tongue in cheek, but it is where things are heading, and may not be as bad as it seems once it gets there.)
That is the best Idea Ive heard yet Dew.
Its funny when you think about that this virtual economy is so similar to a real one. Except for the price cap lol.
It makes perfect sense and now I look forward to the day when fire crystals are 2mil a stack.
Its funny when you think about that this virtual economy is so similar to a real one. Except for the price cap lol.
It makes perfect sense and now I look forward to the day when fire crystals are 2mil a stack.
If every item was all rising at the same rate then yea, it wouldn't be so bad. However, this isn't the case. Some items are fluctuating to unbelievable prices while some items are staying the same or lowered in some cases, this causes an unbalance and thus problems seem to spring from that. Though it is almost impossible to get ALL items to rise at the same rate, it would be better off it more did this. Till then the economy still scares me.
Quote:
There is a cap, its 99mil
I'm sorry but this is incorrect.
The cap for selling items on the AH is 999,999,999 not 99,999,999. That is a huge difference. You are thinking of the highest price you can Bazaar something for which is 99,999,999. The cap for gil in your wallet is 999,999,999 as well.
This is why you don't see the "highest end" items in peoples bazaars for 99,999,999 because someone could purchase it.
There is no need for individual caps on items at the AH. Assuming you earn your gil legitamately inflation does not hurt you, because you are earning more from farming in proportion to inflation. When someone thinks that inflation is not occuring at the same rate for all items, that is not really inflation causing that descrepancy, that is a change in demand. Demand is always going up on rarer items more than common items so regardless of inflation the prices of those rarer items will go up disproportionately.
The only way inflation will hurt you is if you are hoarding huge amounts of gil and not spending it on items. If that is you then go ahead and complain, although I doubt many people would feel sorry for you.
Don't try to fight the economy. Work with it.
It was a noble effort to drive prices down, but if you are trying to help people out you should leave it the way it is. Crystals are one of the main sources of income for newbs. Dropping fire crystals to 5k will only hurt the newb players.
Economy really sucks, but no one can say they are having a difficult time affording basic items like food. When Beehive Chips, Seeds, and Silk have gone up dramatically (last I checked Silk was 90k a stack). Prices are really skewed at the moment, but the average player should still be able to get the same standard items as they have before. Its just takes a bit of getting used to seeing things like Sushi go for 40-60k when it was roughly half that price a few months ago. Invest your money. The way things are going its gonna hurt you more to horde it under your bed.
Get used to the prices. As for the Uber gear, you don't need it to succeed in the game. If you want to excel and have the best equipment, then you need to pay the dues, which is the way it should be.
It was a noble effort to drive prices down, but if you are trying to help people out you should leave it the way it is. Crystals are one of the main sources of income for newbs. Dropping fire crystals to 5k will only hurt the newb players.
Economy really sucks, but no one can say they are having a difficult time affording basic items like food. When Beehive Chips, Seeds, and Silk have gone up dramatically (last I checked Silk was 90k a stack). Prices are really skewed at the moment, but the average player should still be able to get the same standard items as they have before. Its just takes a bit of getting used to seeing things like Sushi go for 40-60k when it was roughly half that price a few months ago. Invest your money. The way things are going its gonna hurt you more to horde it under your bed.
Get used to the prices. As for the Uber gear, you don't need it to succeed in the game. If you want to excel and have the best equipment, then you need to pay the dues, which is the way it should be.
Most of these price hikes occurred during Christmas. I'm sure IGE and any other gilbuying site made alot of money for Christmas...
Thought this was woth adding to this...
[link=http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2006-01-18-pc-gamer-ads_x.htm]
Go PC Gamer Magazine!
Meh... link is dead... thank you USAToday.com....
Long article short, PC Magazine refuses to let gold/gil/etc selling companies like IGE have ads in their magazine. A step in the right direction IMHO...
Edited, Thu Jan 26 01:42:20 2006 by lewbaby
[link=http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2006-01-18-pc-gamer-ads_x.htm]
Go PC Gamer Magazine!
Meh... link is dead... thank you USAToday.com....
Long article short, PC Magazine refuses to let gold/gil/etc selling companies like IGE have ads in their magazine. A step in the right direction IMHO...
Edited, Thu Jan 26 01:42:20 2006 by lewbaby
I do something similar myself, I put things in the Jeuno AH much cheaper than the price list claims, in general for things I think that are 1k or more I put them in as 1k, for things like mob drops such as dhalmel hides in the like I just put them in for 100 gil. I do this constantly in the hopes that someone will bid low, funniest story of this was when I sold my Vassago scythe, when I got the thing it was 100k, months later it's over 3mil.
I put the scythe in the AH for 1000 giland someone bought it for 27k, I was glad, I could care less about the difference in price, it made me happy that people are still bidding less and less, items like the V scythe, the scorpion harness, haubergeon, and the like though they are powerful, are not worth what the current prices are, I tend to get a lot of crystals so if any of you are in Jeuno, try bidding only 1 or 2k for crystals in the AH, you'll probably get one of my stacks or a stack from someone else that puts things in for lower prices.
I put the scythe in the AH for 1000 giland someone bought it for 27k, I was glad, I could care less about the difference in price, it made me happy that people are still bidding less and less, items like the V scythe, the scorpion harness, haubergeon, and the like though they are powerful, are not worth what the current prices are, I tend to get a lot of crystals so if any of you are in Jeuno, try bidding only 1 or 2k for crystals in the AH, you'll probably get one of my stacks or a stack from someone else that puts things in for lower prices.
[link=null]Go PC Gamer Magazine! [/link]
Link doesn't work.
Link doesn't work.
8 posts
All of these are valid points. The economy has been pretty shaky these last months. People have been quick to blame the gilsellers and NM campers but just have a little patience and the prices will be back to normal.
Also with higher prices come higher selling profits so its not all bad!
Also with higher prices come higher selling profits so its not all bad!
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