I know Ive read or commented on a similar topic once before but I just wanted people to know my take. Yes, some people change when they reach end game. In all honesty, most take things far too seriously. They forget that this game is fun and to play it to enjoy themselves. Everytime I start to lose my way I think on that and Im fine. In the entire time Ive played FFXI the only time Ive been really down was last month trying to get party invites. As any PLD knows, its very difficult for several reasons. 1. There are many many PLD's 2. People seem to dislike PLD in end game parties ><
Anyways, Ive had the same core group of friends since the beginning. Some of Ive met offline and I plan to see all of them at some time or another. I really wasnt planning on this game being as social as its become but its been a pleasant surprise.
As far as the HNM scene, I havent really experienced that as much. Though I am a part of Crusader. Were mainly a sky ls at this time. Whenever drama does occur, I stay out of it. I respect everyone therein but Im not much of a talker. I just like to have fun. ^^ The main reason I ended up in the sky ls is because of friends. I guess following them there was inevitable. My pals are my life on FFXI. Beyond that, Im just another fellow adventurer.
I hope all the high level players stay away from the drama and remember what made them play this game. If for anything, we need to set an example for people who want a new MMO and havent tried FFXI.
Hope to see you guys in game sometime.
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Discussion: High Level LS and EventsFollow
As far as discussion goes, I suppose my opinion isn't really necessary but since everyone else is doing it, so will I :P
There are many reasons why people play this game and it's all based on their personality and how much time they have to play. Some players play it for the pure sense of adventuring, some players play to be the best and some players play just because theres nothing to do. There are a whole **** load of reasons why players play and one of them include wanting to be part of a group that is high level and does events.
These LS's are known to us as HNMLS's. Do people change? Of course, you can only expect that. Ask yourself in real life. Do you change when you get a new job? Do you make new friends? Do start hanging out with these new people? Think about high school. Did you change in high school? It's the same thing. Anyone who involves themselves with HNMLS's will need to dedicate a lot of time and effort to maybe making money or getting rare items. So what? You lose friends, you move on. You have no more friends in game that you talk to, you quit. That's the harsh reality of this virtual game as it is in real life.
As far as discussion goes, why? Why does this topic even need discussing. We all know HNMLS's will change someone eventually. Why the hell do we level up to Lv75? Because we can join an HNMLS who is capable of doing high level events flawlessly. Then we can refer to what's known as the theory of gravity. Whatever goes up, must come down. People reach their peak...whatever that means. You know what else? I can safely say that American's crave drama. FFXI is like a TV show that everyone's addicted to. If drama doesn't happen then it gets boring. I mean...I love drama, but I only enjoy watching it.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic. My point is...I think these types of threads need to stop. It depresses the hell out of me and only decreases my already incredibly low enjoyment for the game. Just play it for what it is. If your friends aren't your friends anymore, then no need to play. Playing is a priveledge..if that makes any sense at all.
Fun times! woot...Ride the train!
There are many reasons why people play this game and it's all based on their personality and how much time they have to play. Some players play it for the pure sense of adventuring, some players play to be the best and some players play just because theres nothing to do. There are a whole **** load of reasons why players play and one of them include wanting to be part of a group that is high level and does events.
These LS's are known to us as HNMLS's. Do people change? Of course, you can only expect that. Ask yourself in real life. Do you change when you get a new job? Do you make new friends? Do start hanging out with these new people? Think about high school. Did you change in high school? It's the same thing. Anyone who involves themselves with HNMLS's will need to dedicate a lot of time and effort to maybe making money or getting rare items. So what? You lose friends, you move on. You have no more friends in game that you talk to, you quit. That's the harsh reality of this virtual game as it is in real life.
As far as discussion goes, why? Why does this topic even need discussing. We all know HNMLS's will change someone eventually. Why the hell do we level up to Lv75? Because we can join an HNMLS who is capable of doing high level events flawlessly. Then we can refer to what's known as the theory of gravity. Whatever goes up, must come down. People reach their peak...whatever that means. You know what else? I can safely say that American's crave drama. FFXI is like a TV show that everyone's addicted to. If drama doesn't happen then it gets boring. I mean...I love drama, but I only enjoy watching it.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic. My point is...I think these types of threads need to stop. It depresses the hell out of me and only decreases my already incredibly low enjoyment for the game. Just play it for what it is. If your friends aren't your friends anymore, then no need to play. Playing is a priveledge..if that makes any sense at all.
Fun times! woot...Ride the train!
Like some of the posters before me, I too feel that "High Level Event LS" is a personal choice. I don't think that anyone should be criticized for the choice that they make. I understand that some people might feel neglected by there "friends" and that is normal. What you guys have to understand is that "High Level Event LS" are very time consuming and your "friends" have made the choice to participate, I think if you really do consider these people your friends you have to respect the choice that they have made for themselves. I know I haven't really been a part of the "High Level Event LS" scene for too long but there is hardly any inter-LS drama from what I have seen. The world of FFXI mirrors the real world a lot in the sense that there are different stages of progression and also different social/economic (not sure if this is the best word choice) groups. We have to take into account that different people get enjoyment out of different parts of the game, some people want to have "End-game" gear and some people are here for the social aspect of the game. Basically, don't be too upset that your friends chose gear and gil over you or your LS. Just be happy for them and cheer them on. Who knows they might return to you once they have achieved their goals.
I enjoy this game for friends and for seeng new things, CutScene's, areas, etc. I don't camp NM's (well unless I or someone I know needs the item) and I don't farm things to sell for gil. I craft, cook and garden for my gils. Some of the worst times I have had in game is dealing with Gil-sellers when competing for Goobuue (which I do rarely and only do to grow 2 - 4 cuttings so I am not out there killing them all for profit....) or I am lving and a Gilseller party camps ontop of my party while we are fighting. (Thank God for my uber box... no sluggishness at all as I was WHM!) Also my worst times have come with LS conflict and LSwhores and the drama they bring. That ruins the game for many more than just the people involved. I have seen a whole LS almost destroyed due to people like that. Anyways....
I look forward to getting to be a higher lv so I can see the areas like Sky and Sea and all the other places! I wanna do the Dynamis's just to see them, I wanna try Ballista just to see what it's like. If I am lucky enough to get drops from NM's, in Dynamis, etc, then YAY for me! But do not think I am a sucker and will just do things without some reciprocation. If I see everyone BUT me get prizes/gils, that won't last long. (I DO know that there is a pecking order for drops in some areas b4 I get flamed.) But I want to see these areas. I can remember when I first saw Mahura. It was awesome. I sat on the bridge and looked at the sea for a long time. I love the Puronogo Island in Bibiki bay... it's gorgeous. I love Xarcabard... the lights by the castle are gorgeous. And the music and lushness of Zi'Tah.... It's these little things that I love. It's taking my friends to places they have never been - I always love that!
And I think that it's a hi-lvs "duty" (I use that loosely) to pass-on what they can. Don't stop what you are doing, or destroy a day you have planned to help those that need help, but help them when you can as you have been helped. No one got to be a high level without a lot of help along the way! You also did not fall into this game knowing everything. Have some patience and feelings, remember the fun you had when you started, and don't crush someone else's fun. I know I have done the rank missions in Windy so many times I can do Ranks 1 thru 5 blindfolded. I love doing 5-2 even because the plot thickens and makes sense to some of the other story lines and links in Lufaise Meadows and Tavnasian Safehold (formors) and the CS is awesome. And Promy's! Everyone must do the promy's! They are fun, exciting and scary. I want my whole LS and all my friends to get thru these so they can see all I have seen too. They may have more materialistic goals, but I do it for fun, for friends, and for the newness!
I have only lost 2 "friend's" in this game and that was due to their bad attitudes, their not asking for help, their assuming, and their childish behavior and abusive talk. Pretty good for someone who's been playing since the PS2 beta I think! I may not see or talk to a lot of my friends, but I know that should I see them, or feel chatty one day, a quick hello or small chat will catch us up and we can both be on our ways.
Edited, Wed Sep 21 05:23:05 2005 by lewbaby
I look forward to getting to be a higher lv so I can see the areas like Sky and Sea and all the other places! I wanna do the Dynamis's just to see them, I wanna try Ballista just to see what it's like. If I am lucky enough to get drops from NM's, in Dynamis, etc, then YAY for me! But do not think I am a sucker and will just do things without some reciprocation. If I see everyone BUT me get prizes/gils, that won't last long. (I DO know that there is a pecking order for drops in some areas b4 I get flamed.) But I want to see these areas. I can remember when I first saw Mahura. It was awesome. I sat on the bridge and looked at the sea for a long time. I love the Puronogo Island in Bibiki bay... it's gorgeous. I love Xarcabard... the lights by the castle are gorgeous. And the music and lushness of Zi'Tah.... It's these little things that I love. It's taking my friends to places they have never been - I always love that!
And I think that it's a hi-lvs "duty" (I use that loosely) to pass-on what they can. Don't stop what you are doing, or destroy a day you have planned to help those that need help, but help them when you can as you have been helped. No one got to be a high level without a lot of help along the way! You also did not fall into this game knowing everything. Have some patience and feelings, remember the fun you had when you started, and don't crush someone else's fun. I know I have done the rank missions in Windy so many times I can do Ranks 1 thru 5 blindfolded. I love doing 5-2 even because the plot thickens and makes sense to some of the other story lines and links in Lufaise Meadows and Tavnasian Safehold (formors) and the CS is awesome. And Promy's! Everyone must do the promy's! They are fun, exciting and scary. I want my whole LS and all my friends to get thru these so they can see all I have seen too. They may have more materialistic goals, but I do it for fun, for friends, and for the newness!
I have only lost 2 "friend's" in this game and that was due to their bad attitudes, their not asking for help, their assuming, and their childish behavior and abusive talk. Pretty good for someone who's been playing since the PS2 beta I think! I may not see or talk to a lot of my friends, but I know that should I see them, or feel chatty one day, a quick hello or small chat will catch us up and we can both be on our ways.
Edited, Wed Sep 21 05:23:05 2005 by lewbaby
Too many rules in high level stuff. I dont like it, so i dont do it :P
I have just spent the last 2 months dealing with many of the major HNM LS on our server while aggressively working on my blackbelt quest. (Finally finished it by the way!)
Before starting this quest, the only things I "knew" about them came from forum rants and in game comments from friends. I was in daily communication with many of these LS at behemoth and fafnir in an effort to get my rare/ex quest items.
It was good to learn first hand what these people are really like. Some LS live up to every dirty rumor you ever heard about them, and they have earned my resentment. Other LS are slammed a lot online but actually turned out to be pretty good people.
I had "friends" in some of these LS, that for one reason or another moved on to greener pastures. Some turned out to have never been friends at all.. I was a good stepping stone to get their papyrus and maybe some AF out of the way. When my old LS was "holding them back" they jumped ship in a heartbeat and never looked back. They progressed rapidly to "end game" by stepping on the backs of others and are now some of the most "leet" players in the game.
If they do bother to talk to you at all, its to show off their own gear and belittle your own.
Other friends were a bit more humble and just followed friends to these LS, or they were looking for new experiences. You can tell this type of friend by the fact that they still wave to you when passing. They may even help you on stuff, without any profit involved, but sadly are a bit busy on daily HNM chores.
As for the shell leaders themselves, again I was amazed at how some are the nicest people around, and others are hostile trolls who treat you like a spec of dirt and give you a "don't talk to me" reply, if they bother to reply at all.
Long story short, through my blackbelt ordeal I managed to gain a lot of respect for a few LS, and for a few others I now completely LOATH them. But these opinions I have of them now are valid. They came from my own experience and not LS propaganda on KillingIfrit forums. And I don't plan to share them on the forum (No names ^^)
Edited, Sun Sep 25 20:16:11 2005 by Thornn
Before starting this quest, the only things I "knew" about them came from forum rants and in game comments from friends. I was in daily communication with many of these LS at behemoth and fafnir in an effort to get my rare/ex quest items.
It was good to learn first hand what these people are really like. Some LS live up to every dirty rumor you ever heard about them, and they have earned my resentment. Other LS are slammed a lot online but actually turned out to be pretty good people.
I had "friends" in some of these LS, that for one reason or another moved on to greener pastures. Some turned out to have never been friends at all.. I was a good stepping stone to get their papyrus and maybe some AF out of the way. When my old LS was "holding them back" they jumped ship in a heartbeat and never looked back. They progressed rapidly to "end game" by stepping on the backs of others and are now some of the most "leet" players in the game.
If they do bother to talk to you at all, its to show off their own gear and belittle your own.
Other friends were a bit more humble and just followed friends to these LS, or they were looking for new experiences. You can tell this type of friend by the fact that they still wave to you when passing. They may even help you on stuff, without any profit involved, but sadly are a bit busy on daily HNM chores.
As for the shell leaders themselves, again I was amazed at how some are the nicest people around, and others are hostile trolls who treat you like a spec of dirt and give you a "don't talk to me" reply, if they bother to reply at all.
Long story short, through my blackbelt ordeal I managed to gain a lot of respect for a few LS, and for a few others I now completely LOATH them. But these opinions I have of them now are valid. They came from my own experience and not LS propaganda on KillingIfrit forums. And I don't plan to share them on the forum (No names ^^)
Edited, Sun Sep 25 20:16:11 2005 by Thornn
12 posts
I just wanted to jump in no this topic. Some may know me, some may not. I joined this game for my friends. It was a great way for us to do something with each other, with out spending alot of money doing it. I have been in the same LS from the begining, frist it was TwinkalingLumberjacks, to TropicalTranquility, and now I have EpitomeOfGreatness. Now the reason that I picked that name is for one reason. Everything we as an LS has done we have done together. Leveling, AF's, NM's, Missions, Quests, and anything else you can think of we have done together as friends. Our numbers have gone up, and they have gone down. To the point we are at now there are about 15 of us left that still call EpitomeOfGreatness home.
Now I have been playing FFXI for about 2 years now. Prob, about when the NA Pc was released. I have always been a FF fan so this was a no brainer. Comming off a long stay with Diablo 2 for many years. A few friends, and I started playing about the same time. Here we are level 60's, and 70's after a long stay in same LS. This topic is hitting home, most of our LS has gone the route of the HNMLS's. We have lost quite a few members as of late. Some of them I never thought they would leave. But whatever I'm all for doing whats right for one's self. The problem that I have is with some of the members that have left, its the way they left, and the way they "forgot where they came from" if you know what I mean. Well most of my in game friends, and some of my real life one's joined one of the newer End game LS's Nerfed. I had just reached 70 so most of them were joining one or already part of a end game LS. So I joined, not knowing what I was getting in to. lol.
Anyways long story short. I dont have much to offer the end game LS, well not right now anyways. I dont have SKY, and with real life going on it's not something that I have the time for at the moment. I love this game, and play when ever I get the chance. I just dont think the whole "End Game LS" thing is all that its cracked up to be. I still cant take of EpitomeOfGreatness because I want it to stay just what name means. So if helping EOG members with ranks, quests, AF's and whatever else when I'm on the game so be it. IT'S FUN! Thats what this >> game << is about for me.
P.S. Whats up P.G. County Amanada, >>> Waldorf MD, >>>Psychoclownz.
Psychoclownz Rng70, Nin44, Drk44, War37, Thf19
Bastok Rank 7, LS EpitomeOfGreatness (/tell if ya need fun LS)
ZM 4 ^^; COP RS-01
Now I have been playing FFXI for about 2 years now. Prob, about when the NA Pc was released. I have always been a FF fan so this was a no brainer. Comming off a long stay with Diablo 2 for many years. A few friends, and I started playing about the same time. Here we are level 60's, and 70's after a long stay in same LS. This topic is hitting home, most of our LS has gone the route of the HNMLS's. We have lost quite a few members as of late. Some of them I never thought they would leave. But whatever I'm all for doing whats right for one's self. The problem that I have is with some of the members that have left, its the way they left, and the way they "forgot where they came from" if you know what I mean. Well most of my in game friends, and some of my real life one's joined one of the newer End game LS's Nerfed. I had just reached 70 so most of them were joining one or already part of a end game LS. So I joined, not knowing what I was getting in to. lol.
Anyways long story short. I dont have much to offer the end game LS, well not right now anyways. I dont have SKY, and with real life going on it's not something that I have the time for at the moment. I love this game, and play when ever I get the chance. I just dont think the whole "End Game LS" thing is all that its cracked up to be. I still cant take of EpitomeOfGreatness because I want it to stay just what name means. So if helping EOG members with ranks, quests, AF's and whatever else when I'm on the game so be it. IT'S FUN! Thats what this >> game << is about for me.
P.S. Whats up P.G. County Amanada, >>> Waldorf MD, >>>Psychoclownz.
Psychoclownz Rng70, Nin44, Drk44, War37, Thf19
Bastok Rank 7, LS EpitomeOfGreatness (/tell if ya need fun LS)
ZM 4 ^^; COP RS-01
22 posts
Plain and simple: its a game and people forget that, turning it into Highschool drama. The fact that on my first day on an HNMLS I got discriminated against cause my character is a mithra and I am a guy makes me happy I have an LS to go home to who no matter how I act (in character or not) they will always say "Ker is the Paris Hilton of this LS and We love him." I guess everyone has goals in the game, and some are more hungry than others, but...ITS A GAME! It's not reality, your life doesn't depend on this game (Unless your a gilseller). SE gave us all a little talent I constantly am trying to teach my girl Josieeeee about.. "BLIST!" I doubt I will ever find an HNMLS and frankly after the last one I doubt I want one now with all the drama that went on. If its always like that gimme my lazy, cursing, no rules get our stuff done at our own pace no bossing schedule ls.
Final Fantasy Online...we know drama!
Edited, Mon Sep 26 07:46:44 2005 by Kereah
Final Fantasy Online...we know drama!
Edited, Mon Sep 26 07:46:44 2005 by Kereah
Well I totally agree with xrave and confusion, they about hit the nail on the head.
All this talk about these nasty HNMLS sure make me glad I'm not in one . LMAO.
YF IMO isnt really an HNMLS, we're just a good end-game LS.
Now Cato LS, thats an HNMLS. so take that how you want it.
As far as freinds and what not go on here. bah , w/e. I got
enough freinds already . to many more and im not gonna have any room to put my old ones.
That sounds kinda bad but, amanada , you really can't judge people on their video game behavior. or you shouldnt be judging
a nations culture by it either.
As far as people moving on from these small LS to one of the bigger ones. What else would you expect them do? Sit around in valkrum dunes with their finger in their butt whatching their
14.95/mth go by like the sand in the hourglass?
Heck no, and if you do, your mearly holding these people back.
I've seen people in our LS not come to events such as Optical hat runs, dynamis runs, Sky, w/e . because their "in-game GF/BF"
couldnt go or sumin. and thats just silly.
I may be all wrong but it's just my OP on the matter. It doesnt make me a wrong or right its just the way i see it.
But i know how ya feel about people leaving and all, we've had several of our better and old mmembers up and go to dynasty.
some I think for mere greed and other it just seemed like the thing to do, no big deal i guess but w/e.
All this talk about these nasty HNMLS sure make me glad I'm not in one . LMAO.
YF IMO isnt really an HNMLS, we're just a good end-game LS.
Now Cato LS, thats an HNMLS. so take that how you want it.
As far as freinds and what not go on here. bah , w/e. I got
enough freinds already . to many more and im not gonna have any room to put my old ones.
That sounds kinda bad but, amanada , you really can't judge people on their video game behavior. or you shouldnt be judging
a nations culture by it either.
As far as people moving on from these small LS to one of the bigger ones. What else would you expect them do? Sit around in valkrum dunes with their finger in their butt whatching their
14.95/mth go by like the sand in the hourglass?
Heck no, and if you do, your mearly holding these people back.
I've seen people in our LS not come to events such as Optical hat runs, dynamis runs, Sky, w/e . because their "in-game GF/BF"
couldnt go or sumin. and thats just silly.
I may be all wrong but it's just my OP on the matter. It doesnt make me a wrong or right its just the way i see it.
But i know how ya feel about people leaving and all, we've had several of our better and old mmembers up and go to dynasty.
some I think for mere greed and other it just seemed like the thing to do, no big deal i guess but w/e.
Just move on with the game, but don't forgot your peers, stop and talk to them sometimes. 100% all the time, that's what they would like to do. If HNMLS keeps two from doing things. . .atleast take time to conversate. Friends often will part ways after awhile, but in this game, I've seen friendship not last as long as it appears it should.
Materialistic value is. . .nothing. A piece of AF, rare item, access to a certain place, etc, can't keep you happy forever like a person can.
Materialistic value is. . .nothing. A piece of AF, rare item, access to a certain place, etc, can't keep you happy forever like a person can.
I think the best thing to do (in my opinion) is just to play the game the way one wanted, but at the same time be considerate to others. I agree with Confucian that everyone should have right to pursue their own game, but at the same time try to keep in mind what one is doing is affecting others too. I am always a person that believe that even when own interest in pursuited, others can be happy too. Sometimes I know hard to make everyone happy, but what I do is try to make as much people happy as possible. I really do not like to see -- "heh I have fun, I don't care if I mess with you or not" type altitude.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Off Topic:
There is actually quite a few players around Capital area (not sure I should mention name, but I can count including you 5-6 already). I myself lives right next University of Maryland -- where I work and study.
Quote:
Whats up P.G. County Amanada, >>> Waldorf MD, >>>Psychoclownz.
There is actually quite a few players around Capital area (not sure I should mention name, but I can count including you 5-6 already). I myself lives right next University of Maryland -- where I work and study.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
12 posts
Off topic again, but my LS has 4-5 on it alone. Me, Kereah, Billicans, Dano, and Pezz are all Waldorf MD, FFXI players. So there are some more you can say you know now too.
Psychoclownz Rng70, Nin44, Drk44, War37, Thf19
Bastok Rank 7, LS EpitomeOfGreatness (/tell if ya need fun LS)
ZM 4 ^^; COP RS-01
Psychoclownz Rng70, Nin44, Drk44, War37, Thf19
Bastok Rank 7, LS EpitomeOfGreatness (/tell if ya need fun LS)
ZM 4 ^^; COP RS-01
It's rather humorous, as I was talking to Cevan from PaiMei about this last night. In fact, we talked about how most of all the drama and stuff is like two teams talking trash to get psyched up for the "big game". Except that the big game is every 24hrs or so, making it nigh-constant. I saw it as bickering due to being a lower level outsider, and not familiar with such higher level stuff.
So I see how HNMLSs could be really fun, but Cevan also mentioned that you basically have to sell your soul because of how time-consuming it is. That is an insanely large price to pay for me, since I have some incredibly great ingame friends that I enjoy spending time with. Such a big loss wouldn't be worth any item in the game, or any combination thereof. Of course, if my friends were in my same HNMLS, it could be completely fun. Sometimes I think it'd be cool to have an LS for all levels, with the higher levels doing Dynamis and HNMs (though not as fiercly competitive as some) all while helping lower levels with things like G1, AF, and other such funnities.
So I see how HNMLSs could be really fun, but Cevan also mentioned that you basically have to sell your soul because of how time-consuming it is. That is an insanely large price to pay for me, since I have some incredibly great ingame friends that I enjoy spending time with. Such a big loss wouldn't be worth any item in the game, or any combination thereof. Of course, if my friends were in my same HNMLS, it could be completely fun. Sometimes I think it'd be cool to have an LS for all levels, with the higher levels doing Dynamis and HNMs (though not as fiercly competitive as some) all while helping lower levels with things like G1, AF, and other such funnities.
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