http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/information/0630.html
Still way too early to really speculate, but it looks like SE is planning to do a balancing act with rng and the rest of the normal DD. The arrowburn parties on IT++ may not be quite so lucrative anymore.
A few weeks ago we were building a party and a bard popped up LFG. Jackpot! Sent him a tell and he replied: "How many Rng do you have"? to which I said none. He never replied again lol. I have no problem with arrow burn parties, but I am starting to see the effect on support jobs being spoiled by 7k/hour hunts.
Many Rng argued they didnt need a nerf due to the fact that they paid so dearly for the extra damage output. But to balance this I wish SE would have given other melee the costly option to reach the RNG damage level, rather then bring RNG down to our level.
But with gil at $20 per mil and everyone and their dog buying it, the "throw money at it till its dead" method has created many sub-par RNG who never farmed a day in their life. By giving this option to all DD, the road to 75 would be even shorter then it is now.
However, the way its worded kind of implies that rng who pay attention to their effective range can still maintain that killer edge they have over other melee. Also on a bonus note, RNG who pull hate can shed it easier with the new shadow emnity effect.
(As for the shadow emnity change, this could be the REAL nerf that shakes the game up a bit. Ninja tanks work so hard to hold hate as is. I expect emnity gear to soar in price if this Nerf is a bad one)
Edited, Thu Jun 30 11:05:19 2005 by Thornn
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- The RNG "nerf" we saw coming a mile away
The RNG "nerf" we saw coming a mile awayFollow
That enmity decreasing move on Utsusemi, might put a lot of Ninjas outta work, probably leaving paladin as the only true tanking class, and making ninja into a DD/enfeebling kinda use, also it might be beneficial for Rngs on losing hate as shadows are lost.
And on the part of rngd attks proximity, the only time you see rngs keeping their distance is with mobs that likes to spam AOE moves, like weapons or statues in sky (stun/bound etc) other than that Rngs are usually close to the mob while meleeing. At least I do.
Now is Se gonna give us our JSE?
And on the part of rngd attks proximity, the only time you see rngs keeping their distance is with mobs that likes to spam AOE moves, like weapons or statues in sky (stun/bound etc) other than that Rngs are usually close to the mob while meleeing. At least I do.
Now is Se gonna give us our JSE?
About NIN nerf:
I think NIN can still tank, just more effort and tactics are need in hate control..... And hate control is not only about the NIN itself, all of those crazy RNGs, BLMs, and MNKs, you better watch out if you do not want to die.
About RNG nerf:
That is something I expected to come. Right now, the game is extremely unbalanced against more regular DD jobs -- WARs, SAMs, DRKs are crying loud. It is time to balance the game more. I know a lot of Rangers will cry out loud unfair. The person who really love Ranger as a job probably will not care as much, because the change will make Ranger still a good job if tactics are put in. Right now, it is just about /shoot /shoot and /shoot (spell Cookie Cutter). Where is Hate Control o.O;?
There was a thread in the main forums about what jobs tend to buy more gil -- not surprisingly, it is Rangers. So this can be seen an effort to control gil buying.
I was shocked to hear Bards unwilling to PT not in a BLM or RNGs PT now... When I was leveling BRD, RNG and BLM PTs are very rare. From 1-75, I may have joined 1 BLM PT and 1 or 2 RNG PTs -- and the RNG PTs are associated with a well known NA LS that has deep pockets. Most of the time I settle for 3k-4.5k / hour exp, but not those 8k+/hour pts. And do not even get Bani started when he was leveling Bard ;).
I agree RNGs PT do give best exp/hour output (I am SP with my RNG friend as a BLM -- too bad that is going to end when I quit ><), but my RNG friend levels up woodworking, and take a lot of time in money making. I am sure there are plenty Rangers out there buy gil to pay for their leveling instead of researching effort of making money or reducing the cost to play RNG.
Everything change of the game have its good and bad... To view it as an all bad thing is bad... WARs, DRKs, SAMs can really use some loving.
I think NIN can still tank, just more effort and tactics are need in hate control..... And hate control is not only about the NIN itself, all of those crazy RNGs, BLMs, and MNKs, you better watch out if you do not want to die.
About RNG nerf:
That is something I expected to come. Right now, the game is extremely unbalanced against more regular DD jobs -- WARs, SAMs, DRKs are crying loud. It is time to balance the game more. I know a lot of Rangers will cry out loud unfair. The person who really love Ranger as a job probably will not care as much, because the change will make Ranger still a good job if tactics are put in. Right now, it is just about /shoot /shoot and /shoot (spell Cookie Cutter). Where is Hate Control o.O;?
There was a thread in the main forums about what jobs tend to buy more gil -- not surprisingly, it is Rangers. So this can be seen an effort to control gil buying.
I was shocked to hear Bards unwilling to PT not in a BLM or RNGs PT now... When I was leveling BRD, RNG and BLM PTs are very rare. From 1-75, I may have joined 1 BLM PT and 1 or 2 RNG PTs -- and the RNG PTs are associated with a well known NA LS that has deep pockets. Most of the time I settle for 3k-4.5k / hour exp, but not those 8k+/hour pts. And do not even get Bani started when he was leveling Bard ;).
I agree RNGs PT do give best exp/hour output (I am SP with my RNG friend as a BLM -- too bad that is going to end when I quit ><), but my RNG friend levels up woodworking, and take a lot of time in money making. I am sure there are plenty Rangers out there buy gil to pay for their leveling instead of researching effort of making money or reducing the cost to play RNG.
Everything change of the game have its good and bad... To view it as an all bad thing is bad... WARs, DRKs, SAMs can really use some loving.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Part of the rise of rangers is from CoP missions which with the help of rangers can make the missions a lot easier... Also RNGs are precieved to be very strong in Sky and higher tier HNMs.
I managed to make it to Ouryu fight in CoP mission without abusing Rangers or other very high damage output jobs (Black Mages and Samurai that subs Rangers). In fact, I will not even fight Diabolos without bringing a Dark Knight with me o.o
Things become very tricky when you fight the 50 cap Ouryu. He is hard -- no question. That is one of the hardest level capped BCNMs in the game. But I beat it still without Rangers.... I do admit that we have 3 Black Mages.
The thing about CoP missions is that sometimes it is too hard... And people find easy way out when it is too hard. It is not like those fights cannot be beaten with more typical pts, but people look for the most highest damage output jobs out there. With this nerf, it makes people to think more for the win.
I managed to make it to Ouryu fight in CoP mission without abusing Rangers or other very high damage output jobs (Black Mages and Samurai that subs Rangers). In fact, I will not even fight Diabolos without bringing a Dark Knight with me o.o
Things become very tricky when you fight the 50 cap Ouryu. He is hard -- no question. That is one of the hardest level capped BCNMs in the game. But I beat it still without Rangers.... I do admit that we have 3 Black Mages.
The thing about CoP missions is that sometimes it is too hard... And people find easy way out when it is too hard. It is not like those fights cannot be beaten with more typical pts, but people look for the most highest damage output jobs out there. With this nerf, it makes people to think more for the win.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Speaking as a warrior I've not had troubles finding parties. I personally don't think warrior needs any tweaking really.
There is quite a bit of speculation regarding how this will effect rangers. Until we see it in action we won't know.
There is quite a bit of speculation regarding how this will effect rangers. Until we see it in action we won't know.
Actually I just read how utsumemi will shed hate now, that is going to help some jobs including Rangers themselves ;)
About RNGs are point black fighting range to get TP... I think by changing that actually makes RNGs to look real RNGs. Hey I play D&D, and you get penalizes for trying to use ranged weapon in melee range ;)
About RNGs are point black fighting range to get TP... I think by changing that actually makes RNGs to look real RNGs. Hey I play D&D, and you get penalizes for trying to use ranged weapon in melee range ;)
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Quote:
To view it as an all bad thing is bad... WARs, DRKs, SAMs can really use some loving.
MNKs and DRGs could use some lovin. DRKs, WARs, and SAMs are already crazy DDs. MNKs are good DDs, but it takes more thought then most people realize. A new JA or some more gear would be lovely.
DRGs, well... No wyvern, no DRG. Yes they can do some decent damage w/o the wyvern, but it's really their bread and butter. They aren't near as effective w/o it. I think they have it the worst when it comes to getting PTs.
Nowadays, a lot of people just go for most exp/hour or jobs that can be useful at end game or situational fights, so a lot of jobs are being looked down.
In the end, you play the game for fun, and you should play the job you like. That is something should be respected. The trends nowadays are caused by eltism.
In the old days (what an abused phrase), things are so different...
In the end, you play the game for fun, and you should play the job you like. That is something should be respected. The trends nowadays are caused by eltism.
In the old days (what an abused phrase), things are so different...
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
It doesn't say anywhere that RNGs are going to have to move further away to do more damage. It says distance would have an affect, but Its much more likely to have a negative affect for 2 reasons. 1. So RNGs aren't overpowered when kiting, which makes it harder for regular mele to get a chance to join in on kited gods or hnms And 2. It makes more sense (in regards to physics) to do more damage from close up than further away. So the notion that this will cause RNGs to stand further away is unlikely in my opinion.
But who knows. Its not like everything SE does makes sense. All I know is if RNGs have to hide in the backlines then I'm done with it.
But who knows. Its not like everything SE does makes sense. All I know is if RNGs have to hide in the backlines then I'm done with it.
as a rng i welcome the change. Your right, gil buying is rampant. I think the new change will help out everyone. Rng's will still be in demand but if they are not uber, people will want a good rng, not just any rng. Way too many rng out there who just bought uber gear, and have very little actual skil in plaing the job. I dunno to me its about more than just spamming arrows, timing that barrage just right to grabhate when the nin gets hit trying to cast utsemi and such. But what ever. Its very annoying to go hours lfp with my 59 pld, and then get 3 invites with in 5 minutes of switching to 70 rng.
/cheer Square-Enix!!!
The so awaited adjustment has arrived, it was being time ;;
The so awaited adjustment has arrived, it was being time ;;
Blarg..nevermind.
Edited, Thu Jun 30 23:10:10 2005 by Zaleshea
Edited, Thu Jun 30 23:10:10 2005 by Zaleshea
While giving this ranger change some thought ,
Kirin battle comes to mind, alot of rangers i know tend to LOG OUT to erase the hate they have drawn, which can be very effective way of keeping them alive. But, you loose alot of time and TP between skillchains when doing this.
as everyone knows the most effective way to skillchain on kirin is with 1 ranged attack one melle attack.
this damage reduction with distance may be helpfull in reducing some of the hate that rangers aquire while doing battles like kirin.
which interm will make kiting kirin easier , the less hate that a ranger gets means more hate for the kiter. which will also help keep more mages and rangers alive.
So I welcome this change, it will help a smart ranger be able to pace there selves a little better. we will just have to see.
Kirin battle comes to mind, alot of rangers i know tend to LOG OUT to erase the hate they have drawn, which can be very effective way of keeping them alive. But, you loose alot of time and TP between skillchains when doing this.
as everyone knows the most effective way to skillchain on kirin is with 1 ranged attack one melle attack.
this damage reduction with distance may be helpfull in reducing some of the hate that rangers aquire while doing battles like kirin.
which interm will make kiting kirin easier , the less hate that a ranger gets means more hate for the kiter. which will also help keep more mages and rangers alive.
So I welcome this change, it will help a smart ranger be able to pace there selves a little better. we will just have to see.
Damage reduction/change with distance, however may hurt Kirin fight because it makes fight longer. Currently, Kirin fight is basically over if you can handle the 4 summoned Gods if you are careful with Astral Flow and Stonega. Sometimes killing Kirin is really boring, I helped killed a few times, it is all about running around ><
I am glad that SE is at least making ranged attacks more look likes RL archery.
I am glad that SE is at least making ranged attacks more look likes RL archery.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Scholar
47 posts
"SE is planning to do a balancing act with rng and the rest of the normal DD"
oh please take this ranger down to earth..
The utsusemi change is going to hurt NInja tanks bigtime, but I dont think this is going to make Rngs less powerfull LOL.
IMO The ranged attack change is just going to make Rngs, and ranged attacks follow the same guidelines as other other classes and their weapons. Heres my example of the current situation: take a lvl 55 rng and a lvl 65 rng fighting a lvl 70 mob. To the lvl 55 the mob will read {IT++} and the lvl 65 will read {T} or maybe {VT}. If both use the same weapons there will be very little difference in dmg per shot, or weapon skill dmg. This is where the unbalance comes in. Basically Once a rng gets sidewinder/slugshot -->(55) they are basically as powerfull as a lvl 75 rng using the same gear. I think STR and the skill lvl of your weapon will play a bigger part, where as in the past, base weapon damgage was all that mattered.
I think a change like this will be good for god fights. When fighting some of the toughest mobs in the game, A lvl 75 rng should hit harder than a lvl 70. In the current setup its not the case. Only a 75 in Uber gear can really seperate their self from lower lvl rng's. As for the accuracy change it makes sense that the further away u r, the less accurate you will be.
Edited, Fri Jul 1 18:36:38 2005 by Guranimol
IMO The ranged attack change is just going to make Rngs, and ranged attacks follow the same guidelines as other other classes and their weapons. Heres my example of the current situation: take a lvl 55 rng and a lvl 65 rng fighting a lvl 70 mob. To the lvl 55 the mob will read {IT++} and the lvl 65 will read {T} or maybe {VT}. If both use the same weapons there will be very little difference in dmg per shot, or weapon skill dmg. This is where the unbalance comes in. Basically Once a rng gets sidewinder/slugshot -->(55) they are basically as powerfull as a lvl 75 rng using the same gear. I think STR and the skill lvl of your weapon will play a bigger part, where as in the past, base weapon damgage was all that mattered.
I think a change like this will be good for god fights. When fighting some of the toughest mobs in the game, A lvl 75 rng should hit harder than a lvl 70. In the current setup its not the case. Only a 75 in Uber gear can really seperate their self from lower lvl rng's. As for the accuracy change it makes sense that the further away u r, the less accurate you will be.
Edited, Fri Jul 1 18:36:38 2005 by Guranimol
I'm ready!
I'm tired of the countless Drks, Sams, Monks, Drgs, and Bst being passed up for Rangers.
Yes, I said Bst. Nothing wrong with wanting to party as BSt. The damage output is wicked.
Maybe now, all those mid level Drks will be able to get some where. I have a friend who has been lfg as drk at 32 for about 3 months.
I'm tired of the countless Drks, Sams, Monks, Drgs, and Bst being passed up for Rangers.
Yes, I said Bst. Nothing wrong with wanting to party as BSt. The damage output is wicked.
Maybe now, all those mid level Drks will be able to get some where. I have a friend who has been lfg as drk at 32 for about 3 months.
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