JP/NA Relations (quasi-rant)Follow

I'm going to name names.

The other night, I was in Jeuno, looking to get level 36 whm, Crawler's Nest. I got invited by Scernia, a BLM I'd seen in other parties around me as I hobbled through the 30s.

Slim pickings that time of night. We needed another support job in the party. There was a JP bard LFP. Scernia invited him.

{English} {Party} {No thanks.}

According to Scernia, he's "stuck up". I just brushed this off--he's got his reasons for not joining a NA party, but whatever. It's a little frustrating trying to manage a party with so few choices. And then this snippet of conversation happened (and I have the screencaps to prove it):

(Scernia) Blm Backed out
(Scernia) Brd stuck up
(Scernia) I asked
(Scernia) He said no
(Elixiru) JP aren't stuck up because they want to play with people who speak their own language
(Scernia) Then I spammed him
(Elixiru) WTF did you do that for?

...

I was slightly dumbfounded. Scernia was spamming a JP bard because he was "prejudiced". That would have just reinforced his reasons for not joining NA parties.

(Scernia) Not just me got 5 other ppl spamming ATM as well.
(Elixiru) F**k you. {Disbanding party.}

The rest of the party left within 60 seconds, as they'd lost their whm.

Why? Why?

Ouch, that can be a touchy subject.

First off, I try to enjoy the game as much as possible without taking too much of it personal. Some people take that a JP player turning down a party invite as personal. Now some JP don't like Americans but that doesnt mean they are gonna turn down a party invite. Here are a couple of reasons I've found.

1. Japanese tend to party for a looooonnnnggg time. Three hours seem to be the most I've been told prefered (by JP of course). The difference between NA players is that you have people comeing and going out of parties for various reasons which causes down time and various other things.

2. Mobs mobs mobs
Alot of NA parties tend to go with the high exp mobs leading to many chain 3's and such. Now JP parties will go for more safer mobs with a little less exp going to several chain 5's. Not saying that NA parties don't do the same, but JP parties seem to be more prone to do this.

3. For all those who have been in a Japenese party and new some Japenese, but not well enough to read as fast as they were going, it goes both ways. And do you really want to auto translate everything for one person? Alot of stuff you can't auto translate.

Now, on occasion, I have ran accross a prejudice Japanese who wouldn't give someone a raise or such cause they were NA. But then again, I have ran accross the NA who wouldn't give a raise cause they were asked using Autotranslate due to the fact that the persons name looked as if the were JP.

All in all, I can't help but remember the JP nin who helped me do the dragoon quest and wouldn't allow me to pay her. Or the JP sam and Whm who helped me do AF1 for Drk when all 50 of the people in yag land wouldn't even respond when I asked. The fight took like 2 minutes if that.

Also, try and remember, each person in the party may of had their reasons for getting so upset. Most people wont spam someone for turning down a party invite unless they had some reason for getting so upset.

So, please don't be too mad at those people who were in your party that night (or day). Why let the bad karma be on yourself. If they were wrong, people tend to have ways of getting whats comeing to them.

But also remember, when people just aint nice to you

/blist add

It's all part of online games.
/sigh

work sucks.

No matter whether the other person is JP or NA or not, he/she has the right not to join anyone's PT for whatever reason. Spaming that person is just outright wrong.

In this case. reason given is understandable. Bards do require good ability to communicate with other members of the PT.

Something good to do when making a pt:

1) Use "Please" when making a pt. Try not to be too oversimplified in asking people to join or not. Typing please do not cost you a lot of time.

2) If someone says no, just move on. And say thanks to that person. OP's situation can be avoided easily. I myself run into way too many times people will not reply to you after you say no. Just say thanks for replying is good karma.

3) It is possible that person you ask is AFK, give him sometime to reply. Be patient! A good pt requires patience to make. I am someone that does not like the argument "Some exp is exp" type of altitude. At post level 50 pt, I believe any reasonable pt (not those 4 RNGs or 4 BLM PTs) should be able to do 3k / hour at least.

4) If your pt has someone you do not like, do not voice it out directly. /tell the leader directly that you do not want to work with this person. There are dipolmatic way to resolve a conflict.

Edit / PS: How to help to make a good PT:

1) Use search comment. Give the info what you are @, what weapons you can use, and what sub jobs you can use. Do you have Sky? Altep Gate Crystal? Yhoat Gate Crystal? What food do you use?

2) Check ahead if potential camps are crowded. Research viable camps.... Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest Crawlers Nest (heh.... there are other places you can go o.O;;; , if you don't know, ask me)

3) Check the skill chain table when inviting people! There are certain jobs that get along better. FYI, you don't have to do RNG RNG RNG RNG to do super umber damage. There are certain jobs that go along well when skill chain is considered and good firepower can be done.

4) Mages should bring drinks (or materials that can be used to make drinks) in any pre-40 pt (unless you have Bard), or any post 40 pt that has no Red Mage / Bard. You will be surprised how much better that can do... Cooking is cheap to level -- I encourage everyone to level it until you can make Pineapple Juices.

Edited, Tue Jun 21 11:14:17 2005 by scchan

yeah.. sadly it's easier to get along with alot of Jp players than NA. I'm not saying names, but I had a run in with a NA character in horroto ruins that was ruining a little farming run (needed some onions so a friend could bet blaze spikes) by killing off alot of my train. when i asked why he did that, he said "tell someone who cares".

Now, I would be lieing if I said i didn't retort. I still didn't loose my temper sadly to say, but I kinda wish i did. But i did send a tell or two before he was added to the good old blist.

Sadly enough to say, the only people who get added to my blist seem to be palidans with chips on there shoulders. What happened to the good old friendly palidans like Meridius and Devidion (think i spelt that right).

But, this kinda of stuff happens when playing online rpg's. Soooo oh well. he was out of my life within a 4 minute time span and the world turned.

Now all we have to do is set the traps... lol

awwww, don't worry, I do love Pallys. It's just that alot of people let the job go to their head. Seriously, that is one of the easiest jobs to level. That, whitemage, nin, war/nin, and Ranger. people want want them jobs in parties. That doesn't mean they should be rude to others. I once had a pally in the jungle who didn't want to take gobs at level 31. so when the ranger pulled a gob, he used invincible to get aggro, and zoned it. There was a pally on gob watch wondering what the guy was doing.

Thankfully, the whm left, and he left while we were waiting for a whm. After wards, we got another whm, and I tanked the gobs as drk till we got another tank.

Luckly, most pally's arn't like that. But there are those that stand out O.o

Edited, Sun Jun 26 06:45:01 2005 by freakymescan

Yagudo drinks are useless. You're lucky if you even get to chain 2 without a RDM or BRD. Hey, you're lucky if your tank is up to date on gear. I did all of that jazz, drinks, pineapple juices, pies..it doesn't make a difference, you'll only burn through them all in a matter of minutes. So what I do is stack up on HMP foods. That's pretty much all that works for me.

The assumption that JP don't like NA, is very correct. Having learned this from 2 english speaking JP players. They have told me that is alot of JP players like them who speak english and respect english(EU)americans(US), but there are out numbered by what you people came to label as "prejudice" JP players. The main point however is that they do not wish to play with english speaking players because of our language. They DO know it. YES they LIE about not knowing it. They do not understand the language -- the japanese is not very big on making mistakes, they are perfectionists, I wouldnt mess with something I have no understanding of either.

Just know the ones you do party with..those are the few who are trying deal with NA parties. They are always nice and understanding of battle tactics, and they don't mind "lots of auto-trnaslator" usage, believe me they WANT to know what you're trying to say if you need to tell them something.

Just remember people do not have the responsbility to join your PT, and understand that language can be an issue. I think just expect less from others will really help. A lot of people get worked up because a non-NA turned down an invite and delays the PT. But anybody has the right not to PT, you cannot make someone to play with you regardless of reason.

I personally admit being tri-lingual makes a huge difference to me in terms of communicating in the game. A lot of players regardless of nationality are really nice. But the few bad blood and fights really can make the relationships really bad.

Spira, if you have ran into Sofa or Waru, try to talk to them (you can mention my name -- not sure if Waru still remembers me, but I think he do). Sofa is a JP player that speaks really good english and Waru is pretty open in talking to non JP players even he may not understand what you mean.

PS: BTW everyone can use this icon.

[:deadhorse :] (without the space ;) )

Edited, Mon Jun 27 12:34:14 2005 by scchan

Bah I don't know what exactly people do not have for not being a preimum member o.O;

Whenever I approach a JP (that's not set JE) for a party, I usually use: {Excuse me...} {Party} {(Wherever)} {Do you need it?} (and sometimes "NA/JP OK" to let them know that I'm cool with JP)

At that time, I usually just get either "OK^^" (or the {I don't speak English.} OK?) or {I don't speak English.} {No thanks.} or {Thank you for the offer, but I'll have to pass.} {I'm sorry.}

If JP turn me down, for ANY reason, I simply reply: {Thank you.}

With a name like Elixiru, and being set JE, sometimes JP think I'm Japanese. w

Your English is fine. Communication of your thoughts > perfect grammar. ^^

Along the lines of what Zaleshea said earlier in this thread, a lot of JP players do know -some- English. How do I know that?

Well, a long time ago, back when I was a little rank 2, 21 WHM/BLM in Qufim, I was in a party at the lake. And you know what happens when 20:00 rolls around.

EVERYONE ON THE ICE! NOW!

...so we did. There was this little Taru in my party (it's been so long, but I believe his name was Sofa) that I struck up a conversation with by asking him the time in Japan. So we got to talking, and I discovered after a few minutes that, yes, he could speak English. So we were having a nice conversation, when the topic came around to how long he'd taken English classes.

Sofa >>: "I have taken classes for two years."
>>Sofa: That's pretty good! {Good job!} ^^
Sofa >>: "Yes, every JP person must take two years of English in school. ^^"

Which is why it bothers me when I see JP PT ONLY {I don't speak any English.} in search comments. While I understand that not everyone will retain every single thing they learned, the fact of the matter is - they do speak SOMEthing.

Now, I understand everything that everyone has said so far. But no one can deny that it's frustrating when you're considering making a party, pull up the LFP list, and see the perfect party there waiting for you... if only the WHM and RDM weren't JP PT ONLY.

I have a limited vocabulary in the Japanese language (...VERY limited ^^;), but whenever I can, I try to use those few Japanese words in my typing when speaking. I bend over backwards to try to communicate and be polite to those JP (and others) players in my party, because I know it's that much harder to party because of the language issue. I see my attempts to communicate and be polite as signs of thanks and respect. I usually get a pretty good reaction, so it would seem that they take it just as it's meant to be - a sign of respect. Maybe everyone should learn a few words of Japanese (even if it's just "hai" and "arigatou"?) and try to use them? It seems to work pretty well for me.

Another theory I have is that there's something amiss in the translator. I speak Spanish pretty well, and an example popped into my head, so stick with me.

I'm sorry = Lo siento.

Now, -directly- translated into English, these mean:

I'm sorry = I'm sorry. (Duh.)
Lo siento = I feel it.

These two could be construed as the same idea, but they're clearly not the same exact thing. {I don't speak any English.} might actually be just an advisory by the JP players, and not an actual rejection of your invite.

But I don't know, it's just a theory. ^^;

Speed

A lot of truth to this post. I have Japanese friends (I mean outside of this game by the way) and yes they do learn English in school. YET they do not always learn it fluently. They learn basic gramatical structure and thats about it. For those interested this next piece of information may be of use to someone. Companies in Japan are ALWAYS looking for people to hire to teach English to thier employees. Even though its taught in school its quite like here in the USA when your in high school and learn for example lets say Spanish... well now Im 27 years old. There is NO WAY I can remember what I learned in those Spanish classes lol.

Another fact: They are very sensitive to the fact that they do not speak fluent English to the point that they will not speak English to someone that does speak it fluently. The reason comes from fear of looking bad or possibly insulting the other party. Its not that they are stuck up at all but that they are very uncomfortable outside of that comfort zone.

Can I really use this?

Edited, Sat Oct 15 18:17:38 2005 by SuperClifford



Edited, Sat Oct 15 18:18:34 2005 by SuperClifford
Its not working ; ;

Edited, Sat Oct 15 18:18:54 2005 by SuperClifford