I've had this somewhat crazy idea, and after much pondering, think it just might work. The idea is this: To have an LS of multiple LS leaders. We'd meet once per week, or something on those lines and discuss which LS is doing what missions/quests, and what help is needed... We can then coordinate help from other LS’ that may be doing the same mission, quest, or that just want to help out. Its simply a potential resource for assistance among LSs.
The idea here is to help smaller LS' succeed. Many of the smaller LS are often groups of friends, but they sometimes lack the membership to accomplish certain mission or quests. As a result, members often leave for a more established LS, making it difficult to keep the members together. I’m sure plenty of good LS’ have failed for this reason.
Also, This is may be a good way to turn those “difficult†quests into something a bit more fun as often times the “difficulty†stems from the inability to find people interested in doing the quest itself.
If there is an interest, I will start it up. ConciliumAltus may someday come to be^^ Yes, this would be limited to LS leaders only as the idea is to be a resource to help/assist other LS’. This would not be an everyday type of LS.
Edit: ClanDestine (My LS) has a number of members in the 50-60 range, but also have quite a few players starting off. Consequently, we've been doing some Dragon fights, etc... But our PTs are often times half full. So this got me thinking, why not fill them with other players that may need that done, but cant find help. But if we don't even know of the help needed, there's not much we can do.
Edited, Tue May 24 13:53:14 2005 by Mujuru
- Forums
- FFXI Servers
- Cerberus
- ConciliumAltus - LS leaders please read.
ConciliumAltus - LS leaders please read.Follow
Leet, you and I really need to post our thoughts on here from now on. This is the second thing that we got beat too.
LOL.. so I assume there is an interest in something like this^^
LoL. It's good to see others think the same way though. It's an interesting concept Mujuru. My only inhibition is that I know what I'm getting into taking our LS members out. They know what they're getting into with me too lol. I can be.. well.... strict at times. :-b
I've welcomed ideas of joint ventures with respected LS's so I could see this as feasible. The ultimate decision as far as the BladeSingers goes lies with Speck. Let me know the kind of response you get, Mujuru. I can run it by the council.
I've welcomed ideas of joint ventures with respected LS's so I could see this as feasible. The ultimate decision as far as the BladeSingers goes lies with Speck. Let me know the kind of response you get, Mujuru. I can run it by the council.
Absolutely. In thinking about this more, perhaps it should not be limited to strictly an LS leader as they are often times busy with other LS activities. Perhaps an alternative would be for the LS leader to appoint a representative from their respective LS'. But they would certainly need to be appointed.
As far as you being "strict" Leet.. haha.. its good to run a tight ship. Bottomline is that everyone should come to any event well prepared with items/supplies/knowledge. Perhaps much can be learned from that^^
This also prompted me to think that this may free up some of the time spent by higher level players in each member LS. Basically, a party could be built of people needing to do a mission or whatever, then sending a limited number of high lvl players to assist as needed from various LS'. I certainly would not mind helping members from another LS should the need arise. This essentially distributes the work load amongst those who are in a position to help^^
Of course, detail with respect to this LS would certainly need to be worked out. i.e. membership requirements (if any), social responsibility rules (if any), etc... etc...
Edited, Tue May 24 14:41:11 2005 by Mujuru
As far as you being "strict" Leet.. haha.. its good to run a tight ship. Bottomline is that everyone should come to any event well prepared with items/supplies/knowledge. Perhaps much can be learned from that^^
This also prompted me to think that this may free up some of the time spent by higher level players in each member LS. Basically, a party could be built of people needing to do a mission or whatever, then sending a limited number of high lvl players to assist as needed from various LS'. I certainly would not mind helping members from another LS should the need arise. This essentially distributes the work load amongst those who are in a position to help^^
Of course, detail with respect to this LS would certainly need to be worked out. i.e. membership requirements (if any), social responsibility rules (if any), etc... etc...
Edited, Tue May 24 14:41:11 2005 by Mujuru
Mujuru, Send me a tell in game. I am one of the majority speakers for the Praetorians. Samiex holds the shell but I am a Co-founder. I can let you know our "belief" system and what we look for in members. Just send me a tell. ^^
Will do Dahlgren.
It depends on the LSs you are trying to get together. I think the more well known mid/high (40-75) (non-HNM/Sky) LSs (TheChosen, VanadielHolics, BladeSingers, LightSwitchRave, Untouchables, KosenTekiOrder, SilenceOftheTaru etc) are very close to self sufficient at this time for most simplier things. They are also the LSs that their members or leaders more accessible (hell Leet is fairly easy find in the game ;p so are Oowee, Cordderio, Hibiu, Ozzy, and Daemen easy to find). It really depends on what you want to organize inter-LS event. 3 Nations missions, first half Zilart/Promvian Missions (before Sky or Ouryu), AF, WSNMs such LSs can handle themselves.
For smaller LSs, their leaders will be hard to get hold off (as you may not even know who he/she is). But of course, if you get to show themselves, it will be awesome.
If you are talking about Divine Might, Hakutaku, Bomb Queen Ring that is a different story -- those may require planning and some coordinations. And not all such LSs need/able to handle that.
For prelevel-40 LSs, I have not been in one for very long time. So I am not aware of their situations.
My experience with ahead coordination with major non HNM/sky events, even you try to plan ahead, they will be no shows, and you winded up have to ask for last minute help or spamming people in your friend lists.
I hate to say that but differences even among higher level LS that have components of HNM and Sky (like KoN) can be very large, and conflicts of interests are real. And most such LSs are completely self-sufficient even in the hardest of events. So if you want help from such LSs, it is usual a personal thing -- helping a friend instead of a inter-LS event.
PS
If you need some names in trying to get people together, you can try ask me in the game, I may be able to get you a pointer who to talk to.
A lot of such LSs leader don't post/read Alla forums, you may want to check (cough) KI forums too.
Edited, Tue May 24 14:53:35 2005 by scchan
For smaller LSs, their leaders will be hard to get hold off (as you may not even know who he/she is). But of course, if you get to show themselves, it will be awesome.
If you are talking about Divine Might, Hakutaku, Bomb Queen Ring that is a different story -- those may require planning and some coordinations. And not all such LSs need/able to handle that.
For prelevel-40 LSs, I have not been in one for very long time. So I am not aware of their situations.
My experience with ahead coordination with major non HNM/sky events, even you try to plan ahead, they will be no shows, and you winded up have to ask for last minute help or spamming people in your friend lists.
I hate to say that but differences even among higher level LS that have components of HNM and Sky (like KoN) can be very large, and conflicts of interests are real. And most such LSs are completely self-sufficient even in the hardest of events. So if you want help from such LSs, it is usual a personal thing -- helping a friend instead of a inter-LS event.
PS
If you need some names in trying to get people together, you can try ask me in the game, I may be able to get you a pointer who to talk to.
A lot of such LSs leader don't post/read Alla forums, you may want to check (cough) KI forums too.
Edited, Tue May 24 14:53:35 2005 by scchan
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Thanks Amanda. The idea, at least from my perspective, is to help those LS' that are not yet completely self-sufficient. Certainly, those that are, would have little to no need for something like this.
This idea is not really designed to target any particular group of LS' or any specific event. It's merely to help consolidate various LS resources for a common benefit.
Each LS has their own agenda. The idea is to find out where those agendas coincide. The strength and resources provided within this "coalition" will be determined by its member LS'.
Its difficult to tell how effective this will be until we have an idea as to which LS' are interested, as well as their respective lvl ranges. In a sense, I believe this LS will begin to take on a life of it's own based upon its member LS'. Just like any LS, it's power and effectiveness is determined by its membership.
I throw the idea out there. Depending on the response, the goals and purpose will be determined by those interested. I am refraining from giving this LS any particular direction as its my firm belief that the membership will make those decisions if this is to work at all. My goal is not to create an LS... simply to facilitate inter-LS communication and contact.^^
This idea is not really designed to target any particular group of LS' or any specific event. It's merely to help consolidate various LS resources for a common benefit.
Each LS has their own agenda. The idea is to find out where those agendas coincide. The strength and resources provided within this "coalition" will be determined by its member LS'.
Its difficult to tell how effective this will be until we have an idea as to which LS' are interested, as well as their respective lvl ranges. In a sense, I believe this LS will begin to take on a life of it's own based upon its member LS'. Just like any LS, it's power and effectiveness is determined by its membership.
I throw the idea out there. Depending on the response, the goals and purpose will be determined by those interested. I am refraining from giving this LS any particular direction as its my firm belief that the membership will make those decisions if this is to work at all. My goal is not to create an LS... simply to facilitate inter-LS communication and contact.^^
I for one am hoping for a semi part time LS that can involve "god" hunts and Dynamis runs so that people who are my friends don't need to beg and plead for admittance into the more well known LSs that do these events. Well-thought out alliances and clear heads could put this together easily. We need a meeting of some of the people who wish to be involved in this. Who wants to be selfless enough to head up this project?
>.>
30k tnl 65....
/em looks at the Trail Markings
/em looks at his Shiva's Claws
/grin
30k tnl 65....
/em looks at the Trail Markings
/em looks at his Shiva's Claws
/grin
Quote:
I think the more well known mid/high (40-75) (non-HNM/Sky) LSs (TheChosen, VanadielHolics, BladeSingers, LightSwitchRave, Untouchables, KosenTekiOrder, SilenceOftheTaru etc)
It's nice to think that we're becoming well known. I'm hoping to get all our intra-LS requests taken care of so we can maybe host a "Community Service" day. Unlike Bush however (no political debates please :-b) I intend to help the home front before I venture out to solve the rest of the world's problems. LoL.
Yes we've become more or less self sufficient but there are times that we're scraping for people to fill slots for missions/quests/etc. You should know that well, Ama. I seem to find you sitting around Jueno alot. LoL. Luckily a couple of our members have gone on a leveling tear and surpassed 70 and still take the time to help the LS. That's been a big boost to those of us 60+.
I have no problems helping others move forward but if they are going on a BladeSinger's outing they would be required to do everything that a BladeSinger member would do (ie. all pre work, proper meds, oils/powders, etc.). No free rides here. :P
That's the only potential hiccup in this idea. People will come in with the thought that "This isn't my LS so I don't care what they think." That won't fly with us as I'm sure it wouldn't with Dahlgren, Samiex or many others.
Oh as far as LS make-up Mujuru. We're close to 90 members now with I think 5 at 70+, 10-15 others at 60+, and a LOT of 50-60. LoL. So we're doing a lot of Genkai, AF, Rank, etc. We also have quite a few about to ding 50 so there are plenty more to come.
I have been told not to look at those Trail Markings until im 70, Oh well, guess I just have to double my efforts. Only a few xp from 65, so at least I'll be able to go, in case someone wants a lowbie Paladin........ 65 and still a lowbie, man......
/cry
/getsoverit
/cry
/getsoverit
Quote:
I for one am hoping for a semi part time LS that can involve "god" hunts and Dynamis runs so that people who are my friends don't need to beg and plead for admittance into the more well known LSs that do these events. Well-thought out alliances and clear heads could put this together easily. We need a meeting of some of the people who wish to be involved in this. Who wants to be selfless enough to head up this project?
I will have to say : That is nearly impossible to do. It may be possible for Dynamis, but defiently not for Sky. There is large sum of money you need to manage in Sky. People management will be just as hard -- I assure you greed and fights and determine who to lot will be an issue, and how one set up the lotting rules is a challenge itself.
And some of you guys are not even ready for that. A level 65 monk or paladin is not going to be too helpful in Dynamis (something I hate to say, but it is true).
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
The main problem we are having currently is that we don't have enough "gun" for the AF3 quest. Coffer keys, we got, AF2 missions, simple. Those darn AF3 mobs are just to powerful right now.
and yes....
Leet is correct, Sami and I do not stand for people not planning accordingly. Never be without the Sneak oils and Powders. :P
and yes....
Leet is correct, Sami and I do not stand for people not planning accordingly. Never be without the Sneak oils and Powders. :P
Quote:
A level 65 monk or paladin is not going to be too helpful in Dynamis (something I hate to say, but it is true).
LoL. No worries. I'm well aware that I'm more or less useless until 70-72 in these Dynamis runs. I just want to see the place. I can still do some decent damage subbing WHM, loading up on MND gear, and boost -> chi blasting. Granted that's not going to cut if for actually trying to win a Dynamis run, but it's better than the Elvaan Whiff Fest that I would most likely provide otherwise.
Anyways, I'm more interested in just going and seeing what it's about for now. I wouldn't plan on scheduling a serious run to win on one of these until I was 68-70 as I would want to be a decent asset before asking others to go. Now if someone wanted a monk to go on a run, that's a different story. :-b
As far as Sky, well, I think it COULD be managed. I have worked with a couple people to set up gil distribution in potential God/HNM hunts already that would work well. Now doing an inter-LS venture poses a whole new challenge. I think that with a good set of hard fast rules agreed upon by all LS leaders that this would be feasible. Now those that let greed take over and go solely for money and less for experience need not attend.
It's one of things that you won't know until you try. :-b The BladeSingers will not by any means be a HNM/God LS full time. Granted these outtings require a LOT of time and preperation but it will not be the sole interest of the LS. It will more be done if we stumble upon some information and everyone wants to get out and try it.
We tend to do crazy things more for the experience of it. We've been kicking around taking out the Orcish Overlord/Warlord (yes they are simple for most but fun to us). These mobs aren't huge gil droppers, but it would be fun. I would like to fight Gods for the experience of it. Not to get into the drama that a lot of HL LS's find themselves in.
Dahlgren, Leet... I feel the same way about being properly prepared. So there's no issue there.
In terms of those that may have the attitude of "this isn't my LS"... well, they should realize that they are ambassadors for their LS. And such instances would be brought up with their LS representative. If it becomes a regular thing with a particular LS, well, then a simple vote to remove that particular LS would rectify the situation. The bottomline is that while this coop would be there for the benefit of everyone involved, it's not a free ride! Everyone must pull their own weight based on their level!
It does sound to me that you guys are a bit farther along than ClanDestine. We do not have the membership as you guys. 90 members is HUGH, IMO. We are about 20 strong on a good night^^ And about 8 of us have jobs above 55-65. So we havent even begun to look into the higher LS activities as of yet. (But we hope to in due time).
Although we would not be able to take the lead on most of the high(er) level events, we would probably work well to fill some empty slots. Currently, we've been doing Genkei's and AFs as well as the Promy missions. I feel like we're just really getting started in terms of LS events. We are not strong in numbers as of yet, but we definitely take pride in our jobs and our LS.
I wouldn't mind helping to get this alliance going or even spear heading it, but given that nearly every posters above appears to have more experience than me, someone else might be better suited. I would simply like to see something like this get started.
On a side note: I'd certainly like to involve some low(er) level LS'. Perhaps part of the problems with renegade players and LS' stem from the lack of guidance in terms of social responsibility and personal accountability. Perhaps some guidance from others will help shape the future of Cerberus.
Edited, Tue May 24 17:13:32 2005 by Mujuru
In terms of those that may have the attitude of "this isn't my LS"... well, they should realize that they are ambassadors for their LS. And such instances would be brought up with their LS representative. If it becomes a regular thing with a particular LS, well, then a simple vote to remove that particular LS would rectify the situation. The bottomline is that while this coop would be there for the benefit of everyone involved, it's not a free ride! Everyone must pull their own weight based on their level!
It does sound to me that you guys are a bit farther along than ClanDestine. We do not have the membership as you guys. 90 members is HUGH, IMO. We are about 20 strong on a good night^^ And about 8 of us have jobs above 55-65. So we havent even begun to look into the higher LS activities as of yet. (But we hope to in due time).
Although we would not be able to take the lead on most of the high(er) level events, we would probably work well to fill some empty slots. Currently, we've been doing Genkei's and AFs as well as the Promy missions. I feel like we're just really getting started in terms of LS events. We are not strong in numbers as of yet, but we definitely take pride in our jobs and our LS.
I wouldn't mind helping to get this alliance going or even spear heading it, but given that nearly every posters above appears to have more experience than me, someone else might be better suited. I would simply like to see something like this get started.
On a side note: I'd certainly like to involve some low(er) level LS'. Perhaps part of the problems with renegade players and LS' stem from the lack of guidance in terms of social responsibility and personal accountability. Perhaps some guidance from others will help shape the future of Cerberus.
Edited, Tue May 24 17:13:32 2005 by Mujuru
Quote:
The main problem we are having currently is that we don't have enough "gun" for the AF3 quest. Coffer keys, we got, AF2 missions, simple. Those darn AF3 mobs are just to powerful right now.
Dahlgren... If i can be of help, let me know. And i'm sure that I could solicit some help from other LS mates as well. And this is EXACTLY what type of coop I'm thinking of.
Also, Amanda, you mentioned KI forums. I've seen that before on these boards, but have no idea what it is, or where I can find it. Could you link it or point me there? I'd appreciate it^^
Edited, Tue May 24 17:21:52 2005 by Mujuru
Mujuru... you can count me in. I actually have a pearl for ClanDestine, but own a shell of my own with real life / in game friends. (NitroGrandshaker)
We actually fit into the spirit of your original post. We are not large in number, but often require larges numbers in order to complete in game activities.
Gomwyn can vouch for me... we level together. ^^
We actually fit into the spirit of your original post. We are not large in number, but often require larges numbers in order to complete in game activities.
Gomwyn can vouch for me... we level together. ^^
/wave Vedder
I already know of NitroGrandShaker through Gomwyn^^... And he speaks highly of you guys. So glad to see you guys onboard.
As you know, being a LS holder, that its difficult to spend time abroad in other people's LS' to get to know them and build quality relationships, etc. There's simply too much to do in your own LS^^. And I consider it a bit rude to pop into another LS simply to solicit help. Hence, the idea to bring together the LS leaders (or a rep) every so often to facilitate cooperations inter-LS. I really do believe this will help people progress.
I'm happy to see the support for something like this^^ WOOT!
Edited, Tue May 24 18:41:44 2005 by Mujuru
I already know of NitroGrandShaker through Gomwyn^^... And he speaks highly of you guys. So glad to see you guys onboard.
As you know, being a LS holder, that its difficult to spend time abroad in other people's LS' to get to know them and build quality relationships, etc. There's simply too much to do in your own LS^^. And I consider it a bit rude to pop into another LS simply to solicit help. Hence, the idea to bring together the LS leaders (or a rep) every so often to facilitate cooperations inter-LS. I really do believe this will help people progress.
I'm happy to see the support for something like this^^ WOOT!
Edited, Tue May 24 18:41:44 2005 by Mujuru
Quote:
I’m sure plenty of good LS’ have failed for this reason.
Yea. But I blame the downfall on my SpiritSoul entirely on me. Since none of the members will admit they killed it themselves. Very good idea, and I hope it works out.
Edited, Tue May 24 21:25:41 2005 by Zaleshea
Usually major LS collapses are due to a very big fight in the LS (NoThx) or the LS leader is going to leave game or away from game long time -- and then things go out of control (Sakura and WeStickTogether). Of course LostExp (the new NoThx) and the new WeStickTogether are quite different with its former past.
About smaller LSs, I think it is common to see people do not anything or run to other LSs for help -- something that cannot really be helped. I will still agree it is generally consider rude to just come on a LS and ask for help. Good partnership among LS takes long time to build.
KI has its own server forums:
Check this
It is quite spicy there...... And I do not like it -- it is like going to a evening talk show with FFXI being the topic. But when I turn on the TV during evening, it is either baseball game, weather channel or TV is hooked up with PS2. /laugh
About smaller LSs, I think it is common to see people do not anything or run to other LSs for help -- something that cannot really be helped. I will still agree it is generally consider rude to just come on a LS and ask for help. Good partnership among LS takes long time to build.
Quote:
Also, Amanda, you mentioned KI forums. I've seen that before on these boards, but have no idea what it is, or where I can find it. Could you link it or point me there? I'd appreciate it^^
KI has its own server forums:
Check this
It is quite spicy there...... And I do not like it -- it is like going to a evening talk show with FFXI being the topic. But when I turn on the TV during evening, it is either baseball game, weather channel or TV is hooked up with PS2. /laugh
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Not an LS leader, but a member of ClanDestine, I have a suggestion for this. Maybe come up with a web site where a LS leader can post an event (Date, time, ect) and what specific roles are needed (whm, 3 DD's, warm bodies, ect)
yo leet,
I just wanna pre warn you on comming events.
Sky/HNM/end COP are all very hectic to coordinate. I would trully suggest keeping you LS the way it is. A more personall basis is needed to keep track of who can and will do what.
I took a very big role in the old WST LS , when we where doing great. But, a LS at that lvl , a lot of people are needed for a mission/quest that totally benifits one person. ex. AF mobs.
What happens is once you get known as a LS that really helps people alot. you get alot of leeches. People that front or pose to be freind but just as soon as they get what they needed there gone. or people that just want to wear a pearl from a well known LS and offer nothing but their opinion on everything. The old wst was a close knit of freinds that helped each other do everything. and it seemed like it was that group that did everything for the new members with not much help or sacrifice of time in return. that was its downfall.
but, most of that usually involved a single peice of AF or sumin of the matter. Once you journey into sky as a LS there is more at stake. tremendous amounts of gill. Awsome god gear that can be worn by many, abj that can be used by many, many real good
rare/ex weapons that can be used.
All this is accompanied by the conflict between diffrent ls.
Sky can very easily get overcrowded. I know the gods are all force poped but the items used to pop them are all from a NM that are not force popped. So when an entire LS gets into sky there is going to be fierce competion.
When you set up a schedule to do sky runs there is more determining factors than just your LS. There are several other LS that have been on a set schedule for sky runs for a long time.
When I first started going to sky our LS ended up there farming the same night as PM. There was alot of tension , but for the most part all worked out in the wash.
I think KoN,PM,WW,YF where pretty much the 4 major NA LS in sky at the time I started. And after a few conflicts we seemed to all get into a good schedule of avoiding each others times. I know KoN , WW , PM had been up there doing regular sky runs when we first arrived and we had to preety much learn there schedule from others and try to make sure we went at the times when things run the smoothest. This is hard to do and requires some cool heads to talk it out, in which there will alwyas be a conflict of intrest. Not meaning any LS is bad for the conflict its just a fact that most people work the 9-5 schedule and theres only so many hours in a day and days of the week.and as
the number of LS in sky increase everyday so will the conflicts.
So mainly what I'm tring to say is . before you jump into a LS
venture of this magnitude. stop and think what it could do. You will have people that have done alot from each LS maybe pushed back a little. The number of outspoken people will increase. the number of leeches that show up to help for one event the think the next week should be devoted to them will increase. the number whiners will increase. so just take a step back. lok at who your freinds are and make sure to hang with them.
I can say i really think alot of my LS and glad to have several of the people that have been cool with me since the early WST days there.
I just wanna pre warn you on comming events.
Sky/HNM/end COP are all very hectic to coordinate. I would trully suggest keeping you LS the way it is. A more personall basis is needed to keep track of who can and will do what.
I took a very big role in the old WST LS , when we where doing great. But, a LS at that lvl , a lot of people are needed for a mission/quest that totally benifits one person. ex. AF mobs.
What happens is once you get known as a LS that really helps people alot. you get alot of leeches. People that front or pose to be freind but just as soon as they get what they needed there gone. or people that just want to wear a pearl from a well known LS and offer nothing but their opinion on everything. The old wst was a close knit of freinds that helped each other do everything. and it seemed like it was that group that did everything for the new members with not much help or sacrifice of time in return. that was its downfall.
but, most of that usually involved a single peice of AF or sumin of the matter. Once you journey into sky as a LS there is more at stake. tremendous amounts of gill. Awsome god gear that can be worn by many, abj that can be used by many, many real good
rare/ex weapons that can be used.
All this is accompanied by the conflict between diffrent ls.
Sky can very easily get overcrowded. I know the gods are all force poped but the items used to pop them are all from a NM that are not force popped. So when an entire LS gets into sky there is going to be fierce competion.
When you set up a schedule to do sky runs there is more determining factors than just your LS. There are several other LS that have been on a set schedule for sky runs for a long time.
When I first started going to sky our LS ended up there farming the same night as PM. There was alot of tension , but for the most part all worked out in the wash.
I think KoN,PM,WW,YF where pretty much the 4 major NA LS in sky at the time I started. And after a few conflicts we seemed to all get into a good schedule of avoiding each others times. I know KoN , WW , PM had been up there doing regular sky runs when we first arrived and we had to preety much learn there schedule from others and try to make sure we went at the times when things run the smoothest. This is hard to do and requires some cool heads to talk it out, in which there will alwyas be a conflict of intrest. Not meaning any LS is bad for the conflict its just a fact that most people work the 9-5 schedule and theres only so many hours in a day and days of the week.and as
the number of LS in sky increase everyday so will the conflicts.
So mainly what I'm tring to say is . before you jump into a LS
venture of this magnitude. stop and think what it could do. You will have people that have done alot from each LS maybe pushed back a little. The number of outspoken people will increase. the number of leeches that show up to help for one event the think the next week should be devoted to them will increase. the number whiners will increase. so just take a step back. lok at who your freinds are and make sure to hang with them.
I can say i really think alot of my LS and glad to have several of the people that have been cool with me since the early WST days there.
Quote:
What happens is once you get known as a LS that really helps people alot. you get alot of leeches. People that front or pose to be freind but just as soon as they get what they needed there gone. or people that just want to wear a pearl from a well known LS and offer nothing but their opinion on everything. The old wst was a close knit of freinds that helped each other do everything. and it seemed like it was that group that did everything for the new members with not much help or sacrifice of time in return. that was its downfall.
I personally do not care to help people as long as I know those people will help back. For a lot of people in smaller LS, the only way to get help is to change from their small LS to larger LS to ask for help. Being too selective to help is double standard. I help random people sometime as long as I got a feeling that person deserved to be helped.
But open leeching is common.... I will have to admit. There are few cases in HoE that a certain member will suddenly pop when LS is going to do a O-Hat or WSNM, and will disappear out to nowhere afterwards.
I have heard of the story of what killed the old WST -- a fight between senior members and part timers about alleged leeching. But a lot of WST woes before it died can be avoided if the Wylds are there (I know they had a family emergency), as they organize large LS events.
It is good a LS is careful in handing out pearls. The thing with Kraken Club being stolen or people pop in for leeching can be avoided if people hand out pearls carefully. Also I believe LS leaders should act stronger in kicking suspicious people out. In some sense, some of the most successful LSs tend to have the strict rule of conduct -- KoN is like that. Of course KoN is very business like.
In someways, it may be good for smaller LSs to merge into form one larger LS as that give more manpower to do stuff. The current KTO is a merger of 2 (+1) LSs (the old KTO, NinjaTurtle, and all nearly all WindurstSpecialForces member is also a KTO).
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Whoa.. I think this thread is starting to take a life of its own^^
Judging from all the posts (thank you), it seems like all the potential problems begin to arise when HNM/SKY, etc start to be involved. I'm not high enough to know of these things so I can't really comment on them.
But I also think that those issues are outside the scope of what I originally had in mind.
For clarity: The idea is to have an LS where representatives from a number of LS (probably smaller ones) can come together to discuss what they are currently working on in hopes that other LS' may be working on the same thing or can provide help. This is geared more towards player progression than it is about particular drop/gil. And this will NOT be an "everyday" LS... it will merely hold set meetings or some other form of communications (like a website per Kmann).
Since I do not have experience with the end game, I have not witnessed the greed, etc. that goes along with that. However, seeing that I am not at that portion of the game, it also does not really apply to me.
At the stage I'm at, the ideals of helping others progress, working with others, etc... still prevail. And I have to believe that building close relationships with other LSs early on in the game will help to prevent such INCIDENTS later on when we do eventually get to the end game. This also allows LS's to be more selective in their membership as they not longer will be "stuck" due to lack of LS help. They would now have other LS with whom they've built relationships with to turn to.
It seems to me that the end-game "drama" is avoidable... but it takes a little foresight as it takes time to foster relationships. Hopefully something like this alliance of smaller LSs (who will eventually grow/merge, etc) will help change things down the road.
Edit: I decided to go ahead with this and see what kind of response I get in-game as well. Just as every LS takes time to build, so will this one. However, given the nature of it, I feel it should be fairly reasonable to manage. So if any LS is interested, please let me know. I will get in touch in-game with those who showed an interest above.
Edited, Wed May 25 13:29:14 2005 by Mujuru
Judging from all the posts (thank you), it seems like all the potential problems begin to arise when HNM/SKY, etc start to be involved. I'm not high enough to know of these things so I can't really comment on them.
But I also think that those issues are outside the scope of what I originally had in mind.
For clarity: The idea is to have an LS where representatives from a number of LS (probably smaller ones) can come together to discuss what they are currently working on in hopes that other LS' may be working on the same thing or can provide help. This is geared more towards player progression than it is about particular drop/gil. And this will NOT be an "everyday" LS... it will merely hold set meetings or some other form of communications (like a website per Kmann).
Since I do not have experience with the end game, I have not witnessed the greed, etc. that goes along with that. However, seeing that I am not at that portion of the game, it also does not really apply to me.
At the stage I'm at, the ideals of helping others progress, working with others, etc... still prevail. And I have to believe that building close relationships with other LSs early on in the game will help to prevent such INCIDENTS later on when we do eventually get to the end game. This also allows LS's to be more selective in their membership as they not longer will be "stuck" due to lack of LS help. They would now have other LS with whom they've built relationships with to turn to.
It seems to me that the end-game "drama" is avoidable... but it takes a little foresight as it takes time to foster relationships. Hopefully something like this alliance of smaller LSs (who will eventually grow/merge, etc) will help change things down the road.
Edit: I decided to go ahead with this and see what kind of response I get in-game as well. Just as every LS takes time to build, so will this one. However, given the nature of it, I feel it should be fairly reasonable to manage. So if any LS is interested, please let me know. I will get in touch in-game with those who showed an interest above.
Edited, Wed May 25 13:29:14 2005 by Mujuru
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