It looks to me like some people here are missing the big picture. Yes harassment is a fairly common occurence, sad as that may be. That does not make it easier to take. Keep in mind the person who gets harassed is a victim and should be treated as such. If you don't want to be sympathetic at least try to be understanding. Wether it happens in game or RL it is still very disturbing to the victim.
As for females lying about being harassed. Well, we all know that does happen. That tends to happen a lot when the accuser stands to gain something from the situation. I don't believe that has happened in this case since the accuser doesn't stand to gain anything from any of this.
As for being hit on and or harassed in RL for wearing a halter top and mini skirt I have to just say OMG. This seems to fall along the lines of the "she was asking for it by the way she was dressed" mentality. I think it's this sort of thinking that causes so many problems for people playing Mithra characters.
Also something that adds fuel to the fire in game is all those girls who act like they can't get enough sex and provoke harassing behavour(although to them it isn't harassment). I'm sure you all know the type I'm talking about. Those girls who as soon as they get in a party start talking about their sexual prefrece and the things they'll do. Yes, they may be asking for it but that doesn't mean the rest of us are also.
A female character should not be expected to lie and say they're a guy to keep from being harassed. A simple "stop" or "leave me a lone" should suffice but, as we all know, it doesn't always work. I use the "I'm probably old enough to be your mom" approach because, in most cases, I am and that works very well.
The sad fact is, until the people who do the harassing decide to be mature and respectful this will continue ot happen.
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Okay, I rarely post on here. So flame me, rate me down, whichever you so chose. I wanted to say Alethea (sp), I believe you. Arconis has in the past, not recently, harrassed members of my link shell (theSilverAngels). I don't believe any of our members would be "out to get" this person.
I personally have not wanted to speak to him. My husband at one point did have to have a talk with Arconis because his harrassment of another female player in our ls was getting out of hand. The harrassment included many bad rumors spread about her, /shouts whenever she was in the same zone as him (Usually Jueno), /tells to members of tSA about her.
Perhaps, Arconis has his bad days, or has some mental issues. Perhaps, he has a little brother that has access to his account and thinks it's funny.
Either way the character/mun of Arconis does indeed harrass players. I don't believe a bunch of people, even ones I don't even know, are out to "get him".
I personally have not wanted to speak to him. My husband at one point did have to have a talk with Arconis because his harrassment of another female player in our ls was getting out of hand. The harrassment included many bad rumors spread about her, /shouts whenever she was in the same zone as him (Usually Jueno), /tells to members of tSA about her.
Perhaps, Arconis has his bad days, or has some mental issues. Perhaps, he has a little brother that has access to his account and thinks it's funny.
Either way the character/mun of Arconis does indeed harrass players. I don't believe a bunch of people, even ones I don't even know, are out to "get him".
thank you for the words of support.
Just to clarify exactly what my intentions are, i just want to say that i would like him to just stop what he is doing. I do not want others to experience what i have and will do everything i have to to make him stop. I will not lie about wanting him to be PERMANENTLY BANNED from the server. HE DESERVES TO BE BANNED.
Regarding some remarks earlier:
1.) that it might be a younger sibling...
regardless of who it was, it does not excuse the actions. It was wrong. If you think otherwise then you clearly do not understand the weight of what happened. Age is not an excuse for ANY malicious action made with intent.
A few of my friends have contacted him in game, and based on his remarks, it was still the SAME person playing the the character, and he in fact stood by his actions and made it clear that he will not stop. So whoever is the CURRENT player behind the character IS in fact the one who HAS been and will be doing this.
2.) brush it off, it is just words, it is just a game that you can turn off.
If your sister/mother was called a ****, and various other derogatory words in public (which in this case was done via the /em command ex. " /em **** alethea in the *** and she likes it") , and you were not in earshot (similar to having a person blisted and therefore you can not hear), would you say that you can easily ignore that? Would you say, "well you can just not pay attention to it".
Why should I, the victim just turn my game off? i tried the diplomatic approach and asked him to stop. changed areas, took the airship, and outright AVOIDED him. but he just followed me around, continued to harrass me. If someone was bullying you at school, would you then say "well you could just not go to school, or change schools". he SHOULD STOP, he SHOULD be banned from the server. he DESERVES any negative reputation that he gets because he has NO RESPECT for my right to play in peace.
I refuse to associate him when he wanted to join GardenOfAvalon, and turned his application down because he lied about Wryn vouching for him during his application. I am sure that some sackholders/shellholders understand that sometimes you just won't pearl people because of whatever LS policies you have that do not jive with the way the player is acting.
After he was turned down, we crossed paths in korroloka and he tried to MPK my whole party. he was asked to stop. he did not. Everytime he sees me he makes some bad emote, bad comment, etc. and this recent incident WAS the LAST STRAW.
3.) just blist him, end of story
If a person starts calling you a bad player, or makes up stories about how you got parties killed, or that you are a terrible whm/tank or any other job (all of which can significantly decrease your enjoyment of a game that you pay for), would you easily brush it off if you start hearing from others that the reason why you will not get parties is because of what they heard from other players etc etc?
What if because of these lewd remarks you do not hear/read (due to blist) but others do through emotes, now have other people who see, to think that you ARE the **** that is portrayed in emotes and then they send you more lewd remarks... after this incident, 3 other people sent me /tells asking for cyber.... after asking them why they would even ask me considering i do not know them, they said, "well because the other guy made it seem that you put out".
fact is, blisting although works in some situations, it does not when the person is really intent on harrassing you.
4.) its just some pathetic guy living in his moms basement etc etc.
be that as it may, it STILL does not make it any right.
5.) you can pretend that you are a guy gamer and end it right there
i take pride in being a girl gamer. As much as you would think that just guys get into this game, there ARE quite a few of us on this server that are girls. BUT, even if i did that, you think he would stop harrasing me? In a screen captured conversation that a friend sent me, it is clear that regardless of gender, this person is just THAT MALICIOUS... it just so happens that i AM a girl gamer, that i can not take sexual harrassment so lightly. It is NEVER ok. It is NEVER acceptable. It should NEVER be condoned.
........................
I want him banned from the server so that he may NEVER do this to anyone again.
Just to clarify exactly what my intentions are, i just want to say that i would like him to just stop what he is doing. I do not want others to experience what i have and will do everything i have to to make him stop. I will not lie about wanting him to be PERMANENTLY BANNED from the server. HE DESERVES TO BE BANNED.
Regarding some remarks earlier:
1.) that it might be a younger sibling...
regardless of who it was, it does not excuse the actions. It was wrong. If you think otherwise then you clearly do not understand the weight of what happened. Age is not an excuse for ANY malicious action made with intent.
A few of my friends have contacted him in game, and based on his remarks, it was still the SAME person playing the the character, and he in fact stood by his actions and made it clear that he will not stop. So whoever is the CURRENT player behind the character IS in fact the one who HAS been and will be doing this.
2.) brush it off, it is just words, it is just a game that you can turn off.
If your sister/mother was called a ****, and various other derogatory words in public (which in this case was done via the /em command ex. " /em **** alethea in the *** and she likes it") , and you were not in earshot (similar to having a person blisted and therefore you can not hear), would you say that you can easily ignore that? Would you say, "well you can just not pay attention to it".
Why should I, the victim just turn my game off? i tried the diplomatic approach and asked him to stop. changed areas, took the airship, and outright AVOIDED him. but he just followed me around, continued to harrass me. If someone was bullying you at school, would you then say "well you could just not go to school, or change schools". he SHOULD STOP, he SHOULD be banned from the server. he DESERVES any negative reputation that he gets because he has NO RESPECT for my right to play in peace.
I refuse to associate him when he wanted to join GardenOfAvalon, and turned his application down because he lied about Wryn vouching for him during his application. I am sure that some sackholders/shellholders understand that sometimes you just won't pearl people because of whatever LS policies you have that do not jive with the way the player is acting.
After he was turned down, we crossed paths in korroloka and he tried to MPK my whole party. he was asked to stop. he did not. Everytime he sees me he makes some bad emote, bad comment, etc. and this recent incident WAS the LAST STRAW.
3.) just blist him, end of story
If a person starts calling you a bad player, or makes up stories about how you got parties killed, or that you are a terrible whm/tank or any other job (all of which can significantly decrease your enjoyment of a game that you pay for), would you easily brush it off if you start hearing from others that the reason why you will not get parties is because of what they heard from other players etc etc?
What if because of these lewd remarks you do not hear/read (due to blist) but others do through emotes, now have other people who see, to think that you ARE the **** that is portrayed in emotes and then they send you more lewd remarks... after this incident, 3 other people sent me /tells asking for cyber.... after asking them why they would even ask me considering i do not know them, they said, "well because the other guy made it seem that you put out".
fact is, blisting although works in some situations, it does not when the person is really intent on harrassing you.
4.) its just some pathetic guy living in his moms basement etc etc.
be that as it may, it STILL does not make it any right.
5.) you can pretend that you are a guy gamer and end it right there
i take pride in being a girl gamer. As much as you would think that just guys get into this game, there ARE quite a few of us on this server that are girls. BUT, even if i did that, you think he would stop harrasing me? In a screen captured conversation that a friend sent me, it is clear that regardless of gender, this person is just THAT MALICIOUS... it just so happens that i AM a girl gamer, that i can not take sexual harrassment so lightly. It is NEVER ok. It is NEVER acceptable. It should NEVER be condoned.
........................
I want him banned from the server so that he may NEVER do this to anyone again.
I first off would like to appologize for what happened. This is something that irks(is that a real word?) me more than anything. I see guys in game and irl doing the very same thing and it is WRONG. Period.
I am sorry this happend to you, it should happen to no one. Maybe if he reads this thread he will look back on what he did and never do it again or try to set things right. Good luck and if he starts up again get someone to be with you and use thier company to ignore him. Don't let this drag you down, we all have our moments of frustration, I have never been 'assulted' save twice on smaller accounts and different reasons. But I am sorry, I hope this never happens again. Good luck.
I'm done typing...
I am sorry this happend to you, it should happen to no one. Maybe if he reads this thread he will look back on what he did and never do it again or try to set things right. Good luck and if he starts up again get someone to be with you and use thier company to ignore him. Don't let this drag you down, we all have our moments of frustration, I have never been 'assulted' save twice on smaller accounts and different reasons. But I am sorry, I hope this never happens again. Good luck.
I'm done typing...
I agree with 100% with aletheamonk, and this is why. In my opinion, if it is your choice to do something, then you cannot lay blame on anyone (i.e. casinos).
If someone try to bother you, and if you have to make adjustment to avoid the harrassement, and it is the other parties fault. Why should I have to make changes so I will not get bothered.
This applies to sexual comments make by another player, or players do not like to get checked, or anything of that type. Yes, the filter is there for a reason, but at the same time, one should not be forced to resort to filters to avoid harresement.
A lot of people believe "I have the right to do that, and if that bothers someone, it does not matter! I do it the way I want! Who cares if so-so does not like it!" It is not about right to do something, it is about courtsey and ethics. Rights is a given privilige, and is not something to be abused.
Female players have just as much right as a male player. It is good to be proud to be a female player, and such pride should not be attacked or harrassed.
If someone try to bother you, and if you have to make adjustment to avoid the harrassement, and it is the other parties fault. Why should I have to make changes so I will not get bothered.
This applies to sexual comments make by another player, or players do not like to get checked, or anything of that type. Yes, the filter is there for a reason, but at the same time, one should not be forced to resort to filters to avoid harresement.
A lot of people believe "I have the right to do that, and if that bothers someone, it does not matter! I do it the way I want! Who cares if so-so does not like it!" It is not about right to do something, it is about courtsey and ethics. Rights is a given privilige, and is not something to be abused.
Female players have just as much right as a male player. It is good to be proud to be a female player, and such pride should not be attacked or harrassed.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
aletheamonk wrote:
I refuse to associate him when he wanted to join GardenOfAvalon, and turned his application down because he lied about Wryn vouching for him during his application. I am sure that some sackholders/shellholders understand that sometimes you just won't pearl people because of whatever LS policies you have that do not jive with the way the player is acting.
just a stray comment that i don't like the sound of this LS. personal opinion, and i believe i'm entitled to it.
aletheamonk wrote:
If a person starts calling you a bad player, or makes up stories about how you got parties killed, (...) would you easily brush it off if you start hearing from others that the reason why you will not get parties is because of what they heard from other players etc etc?
arconis is influential? if he's really that odious a character, and no one associates with him, why would his word weigh more than any other stranger that i meet in game? apologies, i'm not trying to undermine your cause here, cos i believe alike that harrassment shouldn't be condoned, but blaming the lack of parties cos of arconis's harrassment, while stating that he's an odious freakshow that should be banned? something doesn't really equate here.
[/quote]i take pride in being a girl gamer. As much as you would think that just guys get into this game, there ARE quite a few of us on this server that are girls. BUT, even if i did that, you think he would stop harrasing me? In a screen captured conversation that a friend sent me, it is clear that regardless of gender, this person is just THAT MALICIOUS... it just so happens that i AM a girl gamer, that i can not take sexual harrassment so lightly. It is NEVER ok. It is NEVER acceptable. It should NEVER be condoned.[quote]
my opinion is that this isn't about the pride in being a girl. it's about vengeance. you firmly believe that tit deserves tat, and hence this entire tirade. using sexual harrassment as the means to banish Arconis is perfectly legitimate, and i daresay you're taking more pleasure out of this than just a 'plea for help'.
please don't coat the words in honey, and trying to make it sound more righteous than it ISN'T. i'm not saying you're wrong in your action to seek some form of justice, or some eventual peace of mind, but i do not appreciate self-styled righteousness.
note: all the female friends in game know how i treat women in game, i.e. with cordial respect. and yes, even to the ****** ones that only think that they are always the victim of some male-designed conspiracy. it's one thing to demand justice, and quite another to disguise "revenge" as a "plea for help".
ssandra wrote:
It looks to me like some people here are missing the big picture. Yes harassment is a fairly common occurence, sad as that may be. That does not make it easier to take. Keep in mind the person who gets harassed is a victim and should be treated as such. If you don't want to be sympathetic at least try to be understanding. Wether it happens in game or RL it is still very disturbing to the victim.
comment: but seeing that harrassment is a fairly common occurence is the big picture? we're going into the minute details when we start looking at individual feelings of the 'victims' of this harrassment, no? it is precisely cos we're talking about it from a micro-perspective (i.e. from a allegedly victimized female's point of view) that this has spiraled out of proportion in the first place. i am sympathetic to victims of sexual harrassment, and in this case, i've been very sympathetic to alethea's cause. but being sympathetic doesn't mean i have to take everything she says at face value. i haven't even said anything against her till she decided that she finally had to 'let 'er rip!' with the whole "I WANT HIM BANNED!" deal.
As for females lying about being harassed. Well, we all know that does happen. That tends to happen a lot when the accuser stands to gain something from the situation. I don't believe that has happened in this case since the accuser doesn't stand to gain anything from any of this.
she does, if she gets what she wants:
1. satisfaction that Arconis is suitably defamed.
2. revenge for harrassments that seemed to stem from her (and her LS's) refusal of Arconis's application to join.
3. peace of mind that Arconis (the character) is banned from game.
... or so she believes. but consider the following: what if Arconis DID get banned? so? if he wanted to, he can just step back into game with a world pass and a new account. i don't think SE will stop him, if he bothered to purchase a new game entirely. as you know it, Arconis ceases to exist. but the real person does, no? what then? more revenge?
i know at least one person that has done this before, but i will withhold the name because i know the person as a friend, albeit a tad vengeful. i think she (yes, the person is a she) finally realized that revenge just isn't worth it.
the bigger picture is then: what is?
A female character should not be expected to lie and say they're a guy to keep from being harassed. A simple "stop" or "leave me a lone" should suffice but, as we all know, it doesn't always work. I use the "I'm probably old enough to be your mom" approach because, in most cases, I am and that works very well.
true, and well-applauded. now maybe this 'mommy' can teach the 'girl' a few tricks of the trade? *conspirital wink* *cough*
seriously though, i feel that the thing between arconis and alethea is nothing to do with sexual harrassment because of alethea's stunning attractiveness. underlying is the obvious desire for vengeance, that, as it stands, is unquencheable in alethea till arconis is banned; and in arconis, is unquencheable till he sees alethea writhe in pain from his wholesome 'attention'. the relationship here isn't 'sex maniac' vs 'harrassed victim'. it's 'bully' vs 'prey'.
and maybe therein is the bigger picture?
The sad fact is, until the people who do the harassing decide to be mature and respectful this will continue ot happen.
Quote:
comment: but seeing that harrassment is a fairly common occurence is the big picture? we're going into the minute details when we start looking at individual feelings of the 'victims' of this harrassment, no? it is precisely cos we're talking about it from a micro-perspective (i.e. from a allegedly victimized female's point of view) that this has spiraled out of proportion in the first place. i am sympathetic to victims of sexual harrassment, and in this case, i've been very sympathetic to alethea's cause. but being sympathetic doesn't mean i have to take everything she says at face value. i haven't even said anything against her till she decided that she finally had to 'let 'er rip!' with the whole "I WANT HIM BANNED!" deal.
Quote:
she does, if she gets what she wants:
1. satisfaction that Arconis is suitably defamed.
2. revenge for harrassments that seemed to stem from her (and her LS's) refusal of Arconis's application to join.
3. peace of mind that Arconis (the character) is banned from game.
... or so she believes. but consider the following: what if Arconis DID get banned? so? if he wanted to, he can just step back into game with a world pass and a new account. i don't think SE will stop him, if he bothered to purchase a new game entirely. as you know it, Arconis ceases to exist. but the real person does, no? what then? more revenge?
i know at least one person that has done this before, but i will withhold the name because i know the person as a friend, albeit a tad vengeful. i think she (yes, the person is a she) finally realized that revenge just isn't worth it.
the bigger picture is then: what is?
Quote:
true, and well-applauded. now maybe this 'mommy' can teach the 'girl' a few tricks of the trade? *conspirital wink* *cough*
seriously though, i feel that the thing between arconis and alethea is nothing to do with sexual harrassment because of alethea's stunning attractiveness. underlying is the obvious desire for vengeance, that, as it stands, is unquencheable in alethea till arconis is banned; and in arconis, is unquencheable till he sees alethea writhe in pain from his wholesome 'attention'. the relationship here isn't 'sex maniac' vs 'harrassed victim'. it's 'bully' vs 'prey'.
and maybe therein is the bigger picture?
now, THIS is probably the biggest picture of all.
15 posts
I'm not going to get into a debate about what's wrong and what's not. I have my views, you have yours.
That said, Alethea is my friend. She would not lie about this, nor would she fabricate it. This obviously upset her, the GMs are doing nothing. This piece of **** Arconis should be banned, but he has not been yet. It is important to remember that this is a game and not RL. If it were RL and someone were harassing one of my friends, I'd just beat the hell out of 'em and be done with it. Since it is a game, blist, GMs, and warning others is all we have.
To whoever doesn't believe Arconis would do this, a friend of mine has screenshots of his conversation.
To Ali: come back to the game please. Don't let this piece of sh*t upset you. He's either a 12 year old kid who's never gonna get laid or he's a 50 year old man who has never been laid. Either way, he sucks, you rock, come back plz.
And we did strip his pearl cause the dumbass got on the LS right after pissing everyone else. Anyone else care to ban this prick from all LS contact? O.o
Edited, Wed Mar 2 19:01:26 2005 by Kaerith
That said, Alethea is my friend. She would not lie about this, nor would she fabricate it. This obviously upset her, the GMs are doing nothing. This piece of **** Arconis should be banned, but he has not been yet. It is important to remember that this is a game and not RL. If it were RL and someone were harassing one of my friends, I'd just beat the hell out of 'em and be done with it. Since it is a game, blist, GMs, and warning others is all we have.
To whoever doesn't believe Arconis would do this, a friend of mine has screenshots of his conversation.
To Ali: come back to the game please. Don't let this piece of sh*t upset you. He's either a 12 year old kid who's never gonna get laid or he's a 50 year old man who has never been laid. Either way, he sucks, you rock, come back plz.
And we did strip his pearl cause the dumbass got on the LS right after pissing everyone else. Anyone else care to ban this prick from all LS contact? O.o
Edited, Wed Mar 2 19:01:26 2005 by Kaerith
Quote:
If a person starts calling you a bad player, or makes up stories about how you got parties killed, or that you are a terrible whm/tank or any other job (all of which can significantly decrease your enjoyment of a game that you pay for), would you easily brush it off if you start hearing from others that the reason why you will not get parties is because of what they heard from other players etc etc?
Uhm... considering I'm certain you're going to do something similar to me... yea. Just brush it off and find five others of the 4500 to party with. Which is why I'm not going to let this stoopid **** get in the way of my playing FFXI and having fun.
Oh, and I find the quoted statement to be highly hypocritical. Here you are writing a nasty post about Arconis so he will be recognized for being an *** that you feel he is. However, this doesn't make yourself look any better. You go and ask what would you do if someone discredited your name in game... and here you are, outside of the game, discrediting someone's name. Maybe it's just an oxymoron... or pure Irony... but I still find it hypocritical.
EDIT:
LOL... calling in the reinforcements I see... that was the first post ever made by that person and it was completely biased... bravo.
Edited, Wed Mar 2 19:04:11 2005 by ElvaanKrem
I can accept that somebody else, other than the normal, intended user, might use someones account. Maybe a younger sibling, college roommate, whatever... someone who isn't intended to use that character, or maybe someone that is permitted to use that character to tool around with/farm for the person (this does happen). I've even known other people who have had friendships lost/damaged because of the actions of someone else using their account. However, I wouldn't say "maybe its his kid brother" and leave it at that... if it were a friend of mine and I saw that this was happening with him, and I knew that my friend wouldn't do something like that (and I wouldn't be friends with anyone who would), I would pull him aside (metaphorically here, obviously) and /tell him what was going on and ask for some kind of answer or explanation. If it was a friend/sibling/roommate or whatever I would ask that they change the password for their POL account and not store it in the computer/ps2. Honestly, if you're in a situation where that could happen to you, you need to realize that anybody that walks up to your computer/console can access your account, and take steps to prevent it from happening again.
That being said, I wholeheartedly condemn anyone sexually harassing anyone else... in any form. Its not called for and not necessary. Even if you have a legitimate grievance about someone else this kind of sexual harrassment style revenge is definitely not appropriate.
Edit: made sure it didn't look like i was condemning the victim ^^;;
Edited, Wed Mar 2 19:21:21 2005 by AnaxagorasZ
That being said, I wholeheartedly condemn anyone sexually harassing anyone else... in any form. Its not called for and not necessary. Even if you have a legitimate grievance about someone else this kind of sexual harrassment style revenge is definitely not appropriate.
Edit: made sure it didn't look like i was condemning the victim ^^;;
Edited, Wed Mar 2 19:21:21 2005 by AnaxagorasZ
20 posts
Quote:
I know Arconis, and have NEVER seen him do anything foul or remotely questionably foul...
I believe you when you say this Krem. It's obvious you don’t see what Arconis was doing as ‘foul’. I think you are a good example of how Arconis thinks. And why avoiding him, and you for that matter, is a good idea.
I’ve also had my run ins with Arconis. He goes out of his way to harass people. He’ll spend hours doing it. And he should be banned. What Alethea had to deal with in game was BS. That there are people that feel that she would lie about it, or worse yet, take Arconis’ side is even worse. You should be ashamed.
You shouldn’t need to expect harassment, you should be able to expect people to treat each other with respect. Anything less is unacceptable. And anyone who defends or encourages people like Arconis, are also unacceptable.
Kaerith wrote:
That said, Alethea is my friend. She would not lie about this, nor would she fabricate it. This obviously upset her, the GMs are doing nothing. This piece of **** Arconis should be banned, but he has not been yet. It is important to remember that this is a game and not RL. If it were RL and someone were harassing one of my friends, I'd just beat the hell out of 'em and be done with it. Since it is a game, blist, GMs, and warning others is all we have.
i never said she did. fabricate anything, that is. what i said was a simple message, which went "if your intention is vengeance, don't mask it as just victimization."
let's say now that i trust everything that alethea accounted, all the facts. according to her, arconis tried to MPK her multiple times, stalked her despite her repeated attempts to get away from him, and typed nasty emotes that can be construed as sexual harrassment. kae, you speak of screenshots as proof, along with a things that seem to hint that there's more evidence on hand. on all three counts, the GM has the right to suspend or ban. and if the GM does not do anything about it, in her place, i would be writing one really nasty email with all the said evidence attached to SE and demand their action based on their terms of agreement. if SE values all customers, and by right they should, they will take action.
one should not be typing on a forum and idly hope that someone does the justice. nor should one be typing on the forum with a supposed 'plea' for assistance. we're players here, what do you want us to do? take action? how? oestracize someone based on secondary evidence? spread the word (i.e. defame) arconis more in a bid to 'warn' the unwary individual? since when did the players become the law?
if this were RL and you went and bashed the guy up, you're as criminal as he is. so why play by his game?
To alethea personally:
i do not do this to slam you. i just do not think you are going about this the right way, and hence voice my opinion. i hear your plea, and my suggestion to you is the same as what i've mentioned above in opposition to what kaerith suggested.
bear in mind that the gaming experience is yours. you shouldn't let anyone bar you from something you enjoy. in fact, by having this msg in the forum up, you've basically done what arconis wanted you to do--whine, and showing that all that he has done is having its desired effects. do you think he cares about whether or not he got banned? hell no. he just wants to ruin your game. and watch you mess up and make a bigger mess of the entire situation.
so, alethea, why are you (and some of your friends) walking right into his trap?
Sexual harassment occurs every day in real life. The way to combat this is to get evidence and take it to the proper authority. From there and investigation of the evidence is undertaken to determine the validity and then to determine the proper course of action.
In real life, its not up to the population to dish out the punishment towards this offender, that is up to the authorities who deem the evidence credible or not.
In the game, this authority is called the GM. It is easy to catch people doing this act by the GM call function, or in Kaerith's matter, screenshots. If you want them to do anything, then you contact them. It is up to the player base to determin the proper course of action (Jerhyn - MPK, Kaerith - Server LS banning, Alethea - "I want him banned!"). By doing so, you raise yourself to the status "holier-than-thou" kinda mentality. We are all equals here.
If you apply these mentalities to Real life, you people would be the one being fined and the like. Kaerith and alethea, if you had people follow your idea and you followed too, you would be charged with discrimination without due cause. He hasn't been convicted yet, that is why. Jerhyn dear, you would be a murderer.
Follow the proper channels of dealing with this type of matter. Submit the evidence to the GMs. Then the PROPER punishment will be carried out.
In real life, its not up to the population to dish out the punishment towards this offender, that is up to the authorities who deem the evidence credible or not.
In the game, this authority is called the GM. It is easy to catch people doing this act by the GM call function, or in Kaerith's matter, screenshots. If you want them to do anything, then you contact them. It is up to the player base to determin the proper course of action (Jerhyn - MPK, Kaerith - Server LS banning, Alethea - "I want him banned!"). By doing so, you raise yourself to the status "holier-than-thou" kinda mentality. We are all equals here.
If you apply these mentalities to Real life, you people would be the one being fined and the like. Kaerith and alethea, if you had people follow your idea and you followed too, you would be charged with discrimination without due cause. He hasn't been convicted yet, that is why. Jerhyn dear, you would be a murderer.
Follow the proper channels of dealing with this type of matter. Submit the evidence to the GMs. Then the PROPER punishment will be carried out.
This happened to me when I was a newbie... Though I was a male elvaan and she was a mithra.
I got really angry at her and Blisted her and everything...
Then she joined my LS and we've been great friends since!
I got really angry at her and Blisted her and everything...
Then she joined my LS and we've been great friends since!
18 posts
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The sad fact is, until the people who do the harassing decide to be mature and respectful this will continue ot happen.
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Enthuz wrote:
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now, THIS is probably the biggest picture of all.
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Yes, that is the big picture. Everything else I said, with the exception of the things I said pertaining to having to lie to keep from being harassed, are facets of the big picture. Ya know, the smaller things that make up the whole.
I know people are going to hate me for this but, that's life. I do agree with whoever posted that this has been blown out of proportion. This happened in a game and, disturbing as it may be, were just things typed or animated in a game. These are not things that were done to a physical body that could scar a person for life. I don't think forming a lynch mob is neccesary.
Don't get me wrong, I don't take harassment lightly. I have a 17 year old daughter who was sexually harassed at school. My husband and I took it up with the proper officials and it was dealt with. My daughter did not dwell on what had happened, as is happening here with this situation. She dealt with it and moved on with her life and everything is fine.
The key here is moving on.
The sad fact is, until the people who do the harassing decide to be mature and respectful this will continue ot happen.
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Enthuz wrote:
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now, THIS is probably the biggest picture of all.
Quote:
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Yes, that is the big picture. Everything else I said, with the exception of the things I said pertaining to having to lie to keep from being harassed, are facets of the big picture. Ya know, the smaller things that make up the whole.
I know people are going to hate me for this but, that's life. I do agree with whoever posted that this has been blown out of proportion. This happened in a game and, disturbing as it may be, were just things typed or animated in a game. These are not things that were done to a physical body that could scar a person for life. I don't think forming a lynch mob is neccesary.
Don't get me wrong, I don't take harassment lightly. I have a 17 year old daughter who was sexually harassed at school. My husband and I took it up with the proper officials and it was dealt with. My daughter did not dwell on what had happened, as is happening here with this situation. She dealt with it and moved on with her life and everything is fine.
The key here is moving on.
1 post
Alethea is my friend and part of my Linkshell. I know for a fact she is not lying about this. I have been there in several occasions when he is harrasing her. When I usually arrive he likes to leave. Him and I have had Conversations ( which i should have copied, but If i have another I will make sure to copy it) about him stopping this matter. All he said to me was simple, that he will keep going and pursue to bother and MPK Alethea. I even called a GM, spoke to the GM for a good 10 minutes. By a third party I can not interfere, I was not able to manage nothing to be done to him even if i did witness it, even if after moments that the GM spoke to me I had just spoken with him. Alethea has obviously tried to make her gaming experience a good one by blisting him, and choosing the options that are avaliable to us when bad things happen. But apparently its not enough to do anything to Arconis to make him stop. Her Plea for help is simple,honest and appropriate. How can one possibly enjoy this game if someone is trying to MPK much less follow them around. Why not turn to those you consider friends or "co-players"
Enthuz, we've met, and I have helped you before in ur AF. You statements although they are your opinions, I could care less for them and i know you could care less for what i think. No woman should endure sexual harrasment of any kind, whether it be in person or via internet. People like Arconis are obssesively dangerous in real life. Sexual Harrasment is not to be taken lightly if you are a victim to it. I am a girl, in this game I get hit on all the time of course. But theres a difference here , Alethea has fallen a victim to a person who is just an avatar. And as petty as an internet Sexual Harrasment is to you. It could go a long way if the pursuer is that obssesive. This is'nt Alethea Fabricating her own lil scenario to grab attention. What does she have to gain from it honestly? As you say you know Arconis , well i KNOW Alethea, and she is incapable and could care less about grabbing attention from people over a guy who obviously has problems. She does not PAY 15 dollars a month to have some person follow her around all day to make her purchase to enjoyment a bad one. This is not the first time I have heard stories of Arconis. I have a friend on the game which i will not name since I have not asked her, That has endured the same crap as Alethea from the same person. I'm sorry but two times seems to concidental to me. And I'll make sure that if i have a conversation with him to shed some light to this matter and post it. And as for what someone else stated in this thread about we are all equals. I, along with many other great people in this gaming community is not an equal to a person who takes pleasure in torturing another person by harrasment of any sort. I am an equal to those who treat over respectfully. This concludes my post, I am not posting to battle with anyone just simply give support to someone who honestly needs it and deserves it.
Ale come back to the game, we miss ya . And i'll always be here for you.
Enthuz, we've met, and I have helped you before in ur AF. You statements although they are your opinions, I could care less for them and i know you could care less for what i think. No woman should endure sexual harrasment of any kind, whether it be in person or via internet. People like Arconis are obssesively dangerous in real life. Sexual Harrasment is not to be taken lightly if you are a victim to it. I am a girl, in this game I get hit on all the time of course. But theres a difference here , Alethea has fallen a victim to a person who is just an avatar. And as petty as an internet Sexual Harrasment is to you. It could go a long way if the pursuer is that obssesive. This is'nt Alethea Fabricating her own lil scenario to grab attention. What does she have to gain from it honestly? As you say you know Arconis , well i KNOW Alethea, and she is incapable and could care less about grabbing attention from people over a guy who obviously has problems. She does not PAY 15 dollars a month to have some person follow her around all day to make her purchase to enjoyment a bad one. This is not the first time I have heard stories of Arconis. I have a friend on the game which i will not name since I have not asked her, That has endured the same crap as Alethea from the same person. I'm sorry but two times seems to concidental to me. And I'll make sure that if i have a conversation with him to shed some light to this matter and post it. And as for what someone else stated in this thread about we are all equals. I, along with many other great people in this gaming community is not an equal to a person who takes pleasure in torturing another person by harrasment of any sort. I am an equal to those who treat over respectfully. This concludes my post, I am not posting to battle with anyone just simply give support to someone who honestly needs it and deserves it.
Ale come back to the game, we miss ya . And i'll always be here for you.
AkemiCerberus wrote:
Enthuz, we've met, and I have helped you before in ur AF. You statements although they are your opinions, I could care less for them and i know you could care less for what i think.
akemi, thank you again for helping me attain my AF.
on the contrary, i find what everyone is thinking very interesting, and if nothing else, i benefit from what the views of females are in game. in fact, i think everyone reading now have a better idea of how much damage sexual harrassment is even in a 'game' environment.
i feel here though, that i need to clarify:
i did NOT say anywhere that alethea was fabricating truths. i did NOT make light of sexual harrassment. i DID however say that alethea is using sexual harrassment as a tool to bring arconis down, in a method that i would deem a tad inappropriate. it's like playing the criminal in order to get the criminal, and calling it righteous. i.e. robin hood, if you will.
both of you imply that the GM has not done anything despite your repeated attempts of calling him. as much as i feel that the GM doesn't seem to be doing his job, i don't think it necessarily great for any other player to exact 'revenge' on others by taking matters into their own hands. or at least not until you've exhausted every other option.
till alethea and all witnesses have written to SE with attached evidence of both the GM's incompetence and arconis's ill-attentions, i don't think the proper legal procedures have yet been attended to.
now, i know this sounds cold and demanding, but the more heated and stubborn the victim acts, the less likely anyone is going to believe her. alethea may be outraged, but after she had stated that YES her intention WAS to rid cerberus (and possibly ffxi) of arconis, touting it as a "means to keep others safe from arconis." is really putting her above the legal system in game.
as i've highlighted before, alethea's current reaction is exactly what arconis wants. the relationship between the two at the moment feels like a bully vs prey. everything that alethea is doing now, all her frustration, anger, fear, is exactly what arconis wished. so why is alethea quiting the game? cos of sexual harrassment? alone? hardly. in truth, i feel it's cos she doesn't yet know how to stand up to a bully. and that's probably the hardest thing to do.
i've said enough, i think. if alethea is reading this and still not able to get my message this very instant, maybe she will eventually. being able to stand up to bullies is something that takes time to nurture. heck, i'm not even that good at it myself. yet. but we all learn.
Quote:
bear in mind that the gaming experience is yours. you shouldn't let anyone bar you from something you enjoy. in fact, by having this msg in the forum up, you've basically done what arconis wanted you to do--whine, and showing that all that he has done is having its desired effects. do you think he cares about whether or not he got banned? hell no. he just wants to ruin your game. and watch you mess up and make a bigger mess of the entire situation.
so, alethea, why are you (and some of your friends) walking right into his trap?
so, alethea, why are you (and some of your friends) walking right into his trap?
Sometimes standing up, confronting, or "live with" an issue is not as easy as it spook. I am sure what the OP has posted is true, and the OP is really frustrated, and do not know what to do. And that is why she posted here -- regardless whether that is giving in to the harasser or what so ever.
I know both male and female players or a matter of fact people in RL in general are unable to confront and deal with issues. So I think subsuquent posters should be more sensentive in that. I myself do not what to do except to call the GM. But one thing the OP did do is to bring forth the issue the public, and people know about what happened, and take neccessary action and give her advice what she may do.
Sometimes it sucks this game reflect so much about RL ~.~ There are people that are nice, shy, angry, have issues, greedy... All sort of stuff. Me too like other players just want to have enjoyment, and not to do with annoying BS, harrasement and dramas. But sometimes such things seek you even you are not asking for it. It is how to deal with it the most important.
Edited, Thu Mar 3 12:40:46 2005 by scchan
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
The issue is no longer who is right or wrong but whether this is an appropriate forum to continue these divisive assaults on each other. What has been accomplished here except for a number of people whom I've had great respect before choosing sides and attacking each other? Harassment of any nature is wrong and should not be tolerated. However, in the world of Vana'diel, it is not within the game parameters for any player to render justice. It is important to provide support and comfort to your friends but this thread has degenerated into "you're a liar." "no! you're a liar!" type name calling.
The OP did the right thing in calling a GM. Now, the result was not what she hoped. The player was not banned. This doesn't mean no action was taken. The Service and Support Section clearly states that the nature of punitive action taken by a GM will not be revealed to the original complainant. If the accused has continued a pattern of harassment after the GM call mentioned in the original post, then the OP needs to take this to the next step and call SE directly to file a complaint for a greater level of investigation.
I don't know either of the parties involved. I hope the situation is resolved in a way that the players can enjoy being in the world of Vana'diel again but these alla rate down wars need to end. People banding together to rate a poster down across the board because they don't agree with a particular opinion is just another form of harassment.
The OP did the right thing in calling a GM. Now, the result was not what she hoped. The player was not banned. This doesn't mean no action was taken. The Service and Support Section clearly states that the nature of punitive action taken by a GM will not be revealed to the original complainant. If the accused has continued a pattern of harassment after the GM call mentioned in the original post, then the OP needs to take this to the next step and call SE directly to file a complaint for a greater level of investigation.
I don't know either of the parties involved. I hope the situation is resolved in a way that the players can enjoy being in the world of Vana'diel again but these alla rate down wars need to end. People banding together to rate a poster down across the board because they don't agree with a particular opinion is just another form of harassment.
:( how come i got rated down :(
[quote=scchan the Magnificent]Sometimes standing up, confronting, or "live with" an issue is not as easy as it spook. I am sure what the OP has posted is true, and the OP is really frustrated, and do not know what to do. And that is why she posted here -- regardless whether that is giving in to the harasser or what so ever.[quote]
i agree. i didn't say it was easy, but i feel that the only way to beat a bully at his game is to remain a non-bully. better yet, to remain totally unaffected by his actions. the sentiment undercurrent in this discussion has gone to name-calling and threats of foul play, which i feel is inappropriate. and that is where i'm voicing my discomfiture. the matter, after much revision, at hand, isn't about sexual harrassment anymore. it's about why alethea (singularly) is being harrassed by the alleged harrasser arconis. and why he has not yet been stopped.
again i reiterate that i believe alethea's recount of her facts, but don't believe that she has sought the proper channels yet. she asked for advice, and i have given what i feel should be right. in fact, the ultimate satisfaction is to have arconis do his little ditty and be totally unaffected by it. friends should be supporting this, not fueling her desire for foul play. my disapproval extends only to these friends who feel it necessary to be a bully to fight a bully, i.e. take the law into their own hands. if they really think that they are good enough to perform in a GM role, perhaps they should write in to SE to request for interviews themselves? Then they can mete the punishments as they feel just to do so.
me? i'll be a player, and stay happy playing.
i agree. i didn't say it was easy, but i feel that the only way to beat a bully at his game is to remain a non-bully. better yet, to remain totally unaffected by his actions. the sentiment undercurrent in this discussion has gone to name-calling and threats of foul play, which i feel is inappropriate. and that is where i'm voicing my discomfiture. the matter, after much revision, at hand, isn't about sexual harrassment anymore. it's about why alethea (singularly) is being harrassed by the alleged harrasser arconis. and why he has not yet been stopped.
again i reiterate that i believe alethea's recount of her facts, but don't believe that she has sought the proper channels yet. she asked for advice, and i have given what i feel should be right. in fact, the ultimate satisfaction is to have arconis do his little ditty and be totally unaffected by it. friends should be supporting this, not fueling her desire for foul play. my disapproval extends only to these friends who feel it necessary to be a bully to fight a bully, i.e. take the law into their own hands. if they really think that they are good enough to perform in a GM role, perhaps they should write in to SE to request for interviews themselves? Then they can mete the punishments as they feel just to do so.
me? i'll be a player, and stay happy playing.
Quote:
:( how come i got rated down :(
Cause you didn't grab your pitch-fork and torch and join the rest of the pillagers against Arconis. Instead you took a neutral stand. No not really, it was a minor joke because this thread has gotten waaaay out of hand. From the OP, to my first post, to the first flame I was tossed and so forth.
Ok, sexual harassment should not be anything anyone should go thru... then again, I should not have to lock my doors at night when I go to bed. My grandparents didn't have to with their generation... why must I? Because there are creeps and weirdo's out there. Rate me down for a slap in the face, but reality is reality whether it's IRL or if it's your virtual reality. The more people you encounter, the greater your odds of encountering incidents will rise. Sorry if you have a problem with that, it's simple laws of probability, and I didn't write them.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that there are proper courses of action to take in this matter. As far as the world of Vana'Diel goes, there's GMs. If a GM doesn't do anything, he/she might be a poor GM; or the instance was not severe enough to take coarse action. If you've repeatedly reported Arconis to a GM and he's still untouched, I can't help but think you're making this situation worse than it is. GMs aren't fools... and I understand they can check game logs fairly easy.
Finally, I make my pillager comment simply because the thread is titled "A plea for help" yet there's not much anyone can do for you other than Arconis and/or a GM. I'm sure Arconis' friends can try to talk sense into him... but I'm almost certain they'd be tempted to join Arconis' cause when they're flammed and degraded for opinions expressed. Those actions on your behalf make you no better than his repeated harrassment or MPK'ing.. and as was said, presents you in a hypocritical, "Holier than thou" type manner.
A couple days ago I thought I had all I could stand and was almost certain that my good name would be slaughtered by the "reputation killers" such as yourself. At the moment, you're here trying to kill Arconis' reputation... next week it could be me. So giving the fact my gaming progress was already slow, that had me fearing a halt of productivity in game. However, after reading thru the Alethea biased comments... and the support from her in game peers who've never posted on these boards before... I'm certain that it wouldn't be too big of a loss if I never got an invite from anyone with synical and hypocritical POV's.
Sorry for the reitteration, but the reitteration (I felt) was worth repeating.
i much agree with Enthuz....
In short, being that I have no repore with Althea, I wouldn't consider treating Arconis differently unless I have seen for myself that he is a scum bag.
Sorry Alethea.. I'm a femal gamer and I too have been harrassed by little pervs. I know how annoying or disturbing it can be. If you call a GM while he is in the mist of /emoting at you they will suspend him. They will read back in your chat log.
Edited, Thu Mar 3 14:15:41 2005 by Marzipants
In short, being that I have no repore with Althea, I wouldn't consider treating Arconis differently unless I have seen for myself that he is a scum bag.
Sorry Alethea.. I'm a femal gamer and I too have been harrassed by little pervs. I know how annoying or disturbing it can be. If you call a GM while he is in the mist of /emoting at you they will suspend him. They will read back in your chat log.
Edited, Thu Mar 3 14:15:41 2005 by Marzipants
I think alethea's post wasn't ment to flame Acronis, it was mostly the "Why do ppl do this kinda stuff" topic and used this story to back it up
But I do believe that Acronis has done this, or I'm sure he would have defended himself by now
But I do believe that Acronis has done this, or I'm sure he would have defended himself by now
ElvaanKrem wrote:
If a GM doesn't do anything, he/she might be a poor GM; or the instance was not severe enough to take coarse action. If you've repeatedly reported Arconis to a GM and he's still untouched, I can't help but think you're making this situation worse than it is. GMs aren't fools... and I understand they can check game logs fairly easy.
/sigh. just cos GMs check logs doesn't mean they can necessarily do stuff about it. they are in the employ of SE, and have to follow their protocol in dealing with cases. even if alethea has reported arconis several times, i don't think the non-action implies that alethea is doing wrong in that aspect.
we must recall that there are more than one GM in the game. i'm not sure how GMs work, but i have my money on the fact that one GM does not necessarily know the other, or if they do, it might be a different GM interviewing alethea during each report, and that they are not at liberty to discuss details for each case.
they aren't fools, no. but i don't discount the fact that possibly they knew not the whole story from beginning to end.
[/quote=ElvaanKrem] Finally, I make my pillager comment simply because the thread is titled "A plea for help" yet there's not much anyone can do for you other than Arconis and/or a GM. I'm sure Arconis' friends can try to talk sense into him... but I'm almost certain they'd be tempted to join Arconis' cause when they're flammed and degraded for opinions expressed. Those actions on your behalf make you no better than his repeated harrassment or MPK'ing.. and as was said, presents you in a hypocritical, "Holier than thou" type manner. [/quote]
that's nastier than it needs to be, imho. as angry as you are about some of the things that's said, i think it might be wise to temper it with a little more judgement, and a little less emotion. alethea might be "holier than thou" in her manner, but you're not quite far from being "the holiest of all".
[/quote=ElvaanKrem] A couple days ago I thought I had all I could stand and was almost certain that my good name would be slaughtered by the "reputation killers" such as yourself. At the moment, you're here trying to kill Arconis' reputation... next week it could be me. So giving the fact my gaming progress was already slow, that had me fearing a halt of productivity in game. However, after reading thru the Alethea biased comments... and the support from her in game peers who've never posted on these boards before... I'm certain that it wouldn't be too big of a loss if I never got an invite from anyone with synical and hypocritical POV's. [/quote]
? you sound more the hypocrite and cynic than alethea at this point. and i seriously doubt that you'd get any less invites in game based on their supposed 'slaughter of reputation'. which btw, i don't think they've yet done, nor will do. any reputation that you've seen slaughtered atm is caused by no-one else but yourself, i feel.
about picking sides, i've already picked one. it's the one that sympathizes with alethea's plight, and that she should approach SE, and not just the GMs, with evidence that arconis is indeed causing her much discomfiture in game. till she tries that, i don't think she has done the max that she can do in order to free herself from the trauma of having a stalker.
Edited, Thu Mar 3 14:36:04 2005 by Enthuz
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