FFXI + FFXIV Forum question/feedbackFollow

Honestly, I doubt an aesthetic change is going to affect the tenor of the board. The OOT and Asylum are also accessible from the sidebar and those don't suffer from the same things you're describing, mostly because those forums get a lot of other visitors aside from FFXI players.

The fact is that a large portion (if not the majority) of people interested in FFXIV and the FFXIV forums are going to be current and former FFXI players. Changing how the forum looks isn't going to change the people who are going to visit it.

It's the same thing if you visit the OOT or the Asylum from the FFXI skin sidebar, and those sites don't suffer the same problems you're describing. If you change the skin when you click on it, it's not going to change the actual people who are visiting the forum. The reason the FFXIV forum is overrun with snarky FFXI and former FFXI players is because the majority of people interested in FFXIV are FFXI and former FFXI players, not because it's the same color scheme if you visit it from the sidebar.

In fact, I can visit the EVE forums, the EQ2 forums, the WoW forums, all while under the FFXI skin, and retain the FFXI header and the FFXI sidebar. Forcing a skin change isn't all of a sudden going to make the people you don't like change their songs.

Forcing a skin change when switching between boards would be just plain annoying. I don't even play FFXI anymore and I use the FFXI skin because of the look and the fact that it has most of the links I use on the sidebar.



The only time I've ever seen this happen is in (lol)=10, and then only when some random WoW player wanders in and starts bashing FFXI.

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 7:44am by Turin

Seriously, how would this do anything but annoy people that prefer a certain skin (as in most people). The people that post in certain forums will still post there. Making the site look different won't change how people post.

Except that it will change nothing about the forum community. The only thing you would accomplish through this would be to negate the whole point behind being able to choose what skin to visit the Zam forum under. If you pick the FFXIV site from the Games dropdown on the Zam.com main page, it brings you to the FFXIV portal, skin and all. That's enough.

I don't get why you don't understand that changing the color scheme isn't going to change how people act on the board, because the same people are going to be visiting the FFXIV forum, regardless of what skin it has. Those who are dumb enough to think that the FFXIV site is "their" site aren't going to be magically, mystically changed by different colors.

Not if you force a skin change every time they click the FFXIV General link from the FFXI sidebar.

I also pointed out that the OOT and Asylum are both accessible from the sidebar, keeping the skin intact and having the header read "Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: Out of Topic," yet that forum doesn't suffer from this perceived "territorialism" that you say the FFXIV forum suffers from. This is largely because the OOT and Asylum forums have a community made up of people who play other games than FFXI. FFXIV's community is going to inherently contain a large number of FFXI and former FFXI players. Regardless of whatever aesthetic changes you want to make, the same FFXI and former FFXI players are going to be a part of the FFXIV community.

I'll say it again: The same people are going to visit the FFXIV forum regardless of whether you change the skin or not on them. They're going to post the same way that they already do, regardless of whether you change the skin or not on them. If a skin change is going to make such a huge difference, why don't we just change the FFXI skin since it will make people change their posting personae?

Really, if you want to make these arguments, you should just argue that they should remove "FFXIV General" from the FFXI sidebar. It'd at least make more sense than arguing that there needs to be a skin change when you click on it.

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 12:54pm by Spoonless

He is saying that it still wouldn't work because what we are dealing with are the attitudes of specific people that transcend the boundaries between "this banner" and "that banner". When I browse the forums, I just scroll down to the XIV link and it takes me to those boards without changing my skin - so in order for what you are asking for to be implemented the admins would literally have change every single link to force everyone to use that particular skin on that particular board. It's not fair to the rest of us to have to use a skin we may not like just because there's a couple of bad apples over on those boards.

I also use the FFXI boards but I would probably slice my wrists and make snow angels if I was forced to use the default color scheme over there. I just don't like it.

In short - your intentions are the best - a friendly environment for all where we may have civilized discussions about games. However, this would probably cause more problems than it would solve.

I don't think it will make a difference either, since people are people and the color of the board isn't going to change their attitude. I do however, agree that it should go to the XIV skin because I feel it's got a more modern look to it. I realize this will upset some people, but those people can just bookmark those forums in the specific skin they prefer. You'd end up doing that anyway if we removed the link and I don't think it was put there intending to be permanent.

I'll discuss with the devs what we'll do. More moderation is necessary, yes, but we need your help with reporting problems.

On a side note, I don't understand why there isn't a neutral skin (similar to the news skin) with a customizable sidebar. Four or five user-chosen links should suffice.

If anything, you should change the name from FFXIV General Discussion Forum to FFXIV Speculation Forum.

I expect that once FFXIV goes live, there will probably be a month or two (or three) of "told you so" and "wtf" referencing comparisons to this game or that where the easiest, most effective, and most appropriate answer will be, "It doesn't matter...it's done...shut up and play or gtfo." (Okay, maybe not most appropriate, but it's probably the one I'd favor.) During and after the post-release shenanigans, the majority of the discussion would likely shift to "which class is better?" and "which race should I play?". Then, in a flurry of red arrows and delicious salty tears things will settle down and people can get back to ******** about SE and ranting about horrible PUG party members. By that point, however, discussion will be focused on FFXIV, not FFXI vs. WoW vs. XBox vs. kittens.



Wanna make out?

Interesting thread. Didn't catch it before now as I don't often wander out of the FFXIV forum.

I agree with Aurelius that many of the people visiting the FFXIV forum are former/current FFXI players, and that Aurelius has met some resistance/hostility during his visits/raids on the XIV forum. Aurelius, however, isn't the diplomatic angel he displays himself as.

I would like to make some points;

1. XIV and XI are both made by Square-Enix and are parts of the long series of Final Fantasy games. This series (and XI in particular) has many loyal fans on these forums, of course mostly residing in the XI forum. Therefore, it is wrong to look at XIV as a totally independent game. It IS a part of the Final Fantasy series and naturally most of the people who follow its development in detail are current or former XI players or players of other games of the series.

2. When someone like Aurelius, who has a very direct and aggressive, some would say arrogant, writing style enters a forum with statements describing XI as living hell on earth, a complete failure and a suffering for all mankind, of course Final Fantasy fans get defensive. Just look at his previous post in this thread for an example, cited here:

Aurelius said: "Quite frankly, if I still played FFXI, that little FFXIV link on the sidebar would seem very much to me like my last remaining glimmer of hope. Sort of a, "Don't worry, beleaguered adventurer. Your suffering is nearly at an end" kind of thing."

These kinds of pointless statements have been thrown all over the XIV forum by Aurelius.

3. Now, one could ask oneself if this is a general problem, if other non-FF players/fans are treated badly on the XIV forum? I say no. Other people with a more diplomatic attitude can easily post critique or ideas without being attacked or rated down. Aurelius definitely is a case of his own.

So how can we solve this problem of Aurelius feeling attacked in the XIV forum? Only in one way, namely by Aurelius moderating his own, very aggressive, posts like everybody else does.

I would like to end my post in a more cheerful tone by acknowledging that in the last few weeks Aurelius has made some very good posts on the XIV forum, where he hasn't been treated with any form of hostility. Common for these posts are that he hasn't started them by saying that FFXI is the crappiest game ever made.

Sorry for any grammatical errors, English is not my native tongue.