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#127 Jan 18 2009 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
Kavekk wrote:
I love this thread. Semi-morons like Tailmon that can't grasp the difference between "to" and "too" spewing bile at those less fortunate than them. Yeah, that goes for Soracloud, too. Let's be honest with ourselves, if the eugenics movement had gone on, Jillian would never have come into being. I'm not saying we should hunt down BD, Sora and Tailmon and kill them to make the world a better place, but we shouldn't take it off the table, either. I am saying that Soracloud is so stupid that under a eugenics program he wouldn't be allowed to breed, just in case you missed that. Oh, and Brownduck's mum, too. Tailmon? Well, let's not even go there.

The point, ladies and gentlemen? I submit to you that only people too stupid to debate with, as they cannot grasp basic concepts, support the total abolition of welfare, and as such there's no need for this thread.

It's OK, unlike you three I am gracious in my superiority. I pity you, but I do not hate you. If I do end up sending my legion of carnivorous penguins to digest your flesh, it won't be personal.

I bid you good day.


You try so, so hard yet you remain a "meh"

Keep plugging away though I am sure you'll find someone here who cares about what you say.
#128 Jan 18 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Default
His Excellency Soracloud wrote:
You try so, so hard yet you remain a "meh"

Keep plugging away though I am sure you'll find someone here who cares about what you say.


Sora, you seem to be under the woeful misapprehension that I care. Your apathy, affected or otherwise, simply does not bother me, and there's no use bringing it up. Besides, let's be honest with ourselves, if I was really trying to offend you, would I have included carnivorous penguins? Nope.
#129 Jan 18 2009 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
If you were to trip face first into a fire and die the world would be a better place, c*ntstain.


Shouldn't you be getting on with that whole not posting thing? You'll never be able to not post enough, Araxius, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I mean, everything you do is doomed to failure, so you might as well fail trying to do something noble.

Just a tip, you precocious little oik.


Glass houses, stones, etc...
#130 Jan 18 2009 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
Aren't all penguins carnivores?
#131 Jan 18 2009 at 2:08 PM Rating: Default
The Great BrownDuck wrote:


Glass houses, stones, etc...


I've never said I was going to stop posting, so swing and a miss, Stubs.

Better luck next time.

Quote:
Aren't all penguins carnivores?


Apart from the few vegetarian ones I've bred, yeah.

Edited, Jan 18th 2009 5:09pm by Kavekk
#132 Jan 18 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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12,975 posts
Because I'm still hungover, I'm just going to go with "I agree with everything Stubs said."


Even the stupid, cnuty *********
#133 Jan 18 2009 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
Kavekk's even more adorable when she's suffering from that time of the month.
#134 Jan 18 2009 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
Baron von Annabella wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
Baron von Annabella wrote:
The Great BrownDuck wrote:
Allegory wrote:
I don't understand why people like to pretend so many of those on welfare are abusing it.


It's not pretend. Try living in a welfare neighborhood for one year, see how you come out feeling about it.


And it's this mentality. I get tired of when I don't hate and resent people on welfare there is this type of accusation. I agree with Allegory and I lived in a welfare neighborhood for 17 years and I worked hard and got a full scholarship to college. Part of the reason I went into social work is trying to give back on some symbolic level to my neighborhood.


It's hard to get rid of 15 years of seeing lazy people milk the system. I think it did get better after 1996 or so, when ever it was Clinton did his thing.

But my mother's cousin had been on Welfare her whole life, her parents were, and if the recent change hadn't done anything, her children would have been too. There was no reason for her to try and get a job (boy was she pissed when they finally gave her the boot though.)


I saw the same sh*t that you guys did my entire childhood. I still have members of my immediate family on government aid. I really think that the problem-- in general-- is that we're so programmed to blame and resent the poor for all the problems that this kind of negative view of them is widespread. It's socially regressive though--because by making being poor a moral failing, we have failed to focus on the problems of the increased stratification of wealth in this country and the realities is that nationally, our real money income has fallen for over 40 years. We don't as a country collectively look at how international corporations and the greed of the wealthiest 1%, who for the first time since the 19th century, own the vast majority of the wealth in the country. We are too distracted about demonizing the poor or being pissed off at unions or whatever.

This type of sh*t gets in the way of any real broad coalitions that would focus on addressing the problems of poverty. As the economy gets worse, the problems of the current economy is going to be increasingly everyone's issue.


I know how people like you operate. I understand that you have an idealistic view of the situation, and want to believe that there is hope and that you can affect positive change, and maybe to some small degree, you can. I understand that there are also those who are polar opposites of you who believe there is no hope and that poor people are the scum of the earth.

I like to think of myself somewhere in the middle. I understand that sometimes, people fall on hard times, and I agree that it is our social responsibility as friends, neighbors, and fellow citizens to try and help people whenever we can. My objection to welfare stems purely from a special class of beneficiaries who abuse the system in a myriad of ways and do so successfully for long periods of time (years.. decades, even). You know which class of people I'm talking about (hint: it's not a race thing), and you also should know (if you're not too blinded by your idealism) that this people represents a majority of welfare recipients. Until such time as this changes, my opinion of the welfare system in general will remain decidedly low and unaffected by your idealist views.

It's not that I despise helping those who have fallen on hard times. I just hate throwing out a blanket of resources to aid the 3 deserving families amongst the 7 who are just scamming the system.


Yes, the numbers are abitrary, primarily because data on welfare fraud is sparse and decentralized.
#135 Jan 18 2009 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
Kavekk wrote:
The Great BrownDuck wrote:


Glass houses, stones, etc...


I've never said I was going to stop posting,


Maybe not, but you should probably quit while you're behind. Stupid little karma *****.
#136REDACTED, Posted: Jan 18 2009 at 2:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You're being rated down by at least two people that aren't me. I only went at it once to see if I could get the coup-de-grace of a sub-default, but it didn't work out. It's not like I'm not getting rated down too, Stubs, but seeing as you're the one crying like a fountain I think you're more of a karma ***** than I am. It must hurt to be stripped of what you see as your e-manhood, the ability to rate people down, but I'm sure you'll get over it.
#137 Jan 18 2009 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
Kavekk wrote:
The Great BrownDuck wrote:

Maybe not, but you should probably quit while you're behind. Stupid little karma *****.


You're being rated down by at least two people that aren't me. I only went at it once to see if I could get the coup-de-grace of a sub-default, but it didn't work out. It's not like I'm not getting rated down too, Stubs, but seeing as you're the one crying like a fountain I think you're more of a karma ***** than I am. It must hurt to be stripped of what you see as your e-manhood, the ability to rate people down, but I'm sure you'll get over it.

Besides which? Neither you, Sora or Tailmon have enough wit in you to write a Harry Potter "book", let alone be "in front" of anyone.


I wasn't even talking about getting rated down. Smiley: lol I was referring to your bandwagon approach to debate, taking the side of the majority every single time. You've yet to express an opinion of your own that wasn't laden with sarcasm and blind ignorance of the topic. You're a stupid little **** stain and I honestly could care less whether you post or not, save the fact that I hate having to scroll over your posts, especially when you make so many of them.

As for the rate downs? Grow up. I haven't given a **** about that for a long time. Hell I'm still no-rated, and I honestly don't give two ***** about it.
#138 Jan 18 2009 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
BrownDuck can't rate anyone down.
#139 Jan 18 2009 at 2:46 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
wasn't even talking about getting rated down. Smiley: lol I was referring to your bandwagon approach to debate, taking the side of the majority every single time. You've yet to express an opinion of your own that wasn't laden with sarcasm and blind ignorance of the topic. You're a stupid little sh*t stain and I honestly could care less whether you post or not, save the fact that I hate having to scroll over your posts, especially when you make so many of them.

As for the rate downs? Grow up. I haven't given a sh*t about that for a long time. Hell I'm still no-rated, and I honestly don't give two sh*ts about it.


I'm a fairly left-wing person, the majority view is normally left-wing. It's not particularly strange, then, that my opinion is generally in line with the forum (although it isn't always). If you think I've displayed ignorance then you're probably just misinterpreting what is me taking the **** out of the opposing position. Or you mean that Ireland thing, which was purely for lulz, although coincidentally I really do know very little about Ireland. I don't give serious opinions about things I don't have a clue about, unlike you, or about things which I do not understand, like you do - though, to be fair, there are far less of those for me than for you, so I guess I can forgive you for that.

And yes, Stubs, I know you're no-rated, I said so in my last post. As for the rate-ups? Grow up. I've never cared about that.
#140 Jan 18 2009 at 2:57 PM Rating: Excellent
For the record, I still care about rate ups. I judge my entire self worth on my karma score.
#141 Jan 18 2009 at 3:05 PM Rating: Default
NixNot wrote:
For the record, I still care about rate ups. I judge my entire self worth on my karma score.


It takes some guts to come out in the open like that, Nixnot. Have a rate-up.
#142 Jan 18 2009 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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13,240 posts
Quote:
For the record, I still care about rate ups. I judge my entire self worth on my karma score.


Karma score x post count.

It's the golden rule.
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#143 Jan 18 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
You've got it wrong, Karma = self worth, Post count = ***** size.
#144 Jan 18 2009 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
Timelordwho wrote:

Karma score x post count.

It's the golden rule.


Jophiel.
#145 Jan 18 2009 at 3:33 PM Rating: Default
NixNot wrote:
You've got it wrong, Karma = self worth, Post count = ***** size.


Wait, you;re saying you don't measure self-worth by ***** size?
#146 Jan 18 2009 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
A person I once knew developed a Linux application that calculated ***** size.
#147 Jan 18 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
I have to say from the posts here that most people have not had to really deal with the Welfare situation. Maybe you dislike my views but I have known people and persons living in the Section 8 housing next to me that pretty much make a living off of it. Believe me that Welfare is geared to to women and them having kids. This is what makes it such a sad situation for many. It also breeds a class of people that consider the welfare system a way of life.

As a typical example of a houshold on Welfare and goverment aid. I see a young woman checking out the vacant duplex next door. (previous tennents were evicted for drugs and theft ring) She has the Section 8 housing person with them and the local Slumlord showing the duplex. I actually asked the Section 8 housing and the landlord if this new tennent could have more people living there than her and the 2 kids. Both said "No!"

Fast forward to 3 weeks after she moved in. There are at least 8 people now living at the Duplex. I have drugs being sold and adult males and teenages that were not suppost to be there. Does Section 8 or anyone care? Shi! no!

Now explain how the system handles abuse and worse? I tried to get it handled and it is like wading into a black hole. No one cares and the neighbrohood suffers and the police have to deal with the drugs and crime.

I also had to apply for welfare because I was at the end of my rope a year back. The first thing I was told: "You get 3 months tops for Food stamps" I asked about what else I could qualify for and was told becaus I didnt have kids and single that was it. Rather sad but somehow I made it on luck till I got new job.



#148 Jan 18 2009 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
I've decided to put forth a civil, polite argument against the total abolition of welfare.

Tailmon wrote:
I have to say from the posts here that most people have not had to really deal with the Welfare situation.


Yeah, that's it. No one could possibly disagree with you unless they were ignorant.

Tailmon wrote:
Some anecdotal evidence


Convincing.

Your argument is that "welfare is just wrong". Full stop, that's what you said. You're not supporting this assertion very well. You claim that even with three months of help you got through on "luck" when you didn't have a job - how would it have been without the three months of food stamps, if welfare was cancelled as you so wish it to be because of abuse of the system? Furthermore, you fail to prove that abuse of the system is anywhere near as widespread as you claim. How, then, are you (and this really goes for all of you) so certain the abuse is so widespread? You have nothing to back it up, so your opinion CANNOT come from anything other than your own ideology and meaningless anecdotal evidence. So, essentially, your argument is as worthless as a Zimbabwean dollar.

That was incredibly easy.
#149 Jan 18 2009 at 4:29 PM Rating: Default
Do I say its wrong? Dam! It is!
I say that it is abused and worse. That it is broken and needs fixing. That I have seen the bad side of it? Come here and live next to Section 8 housing and have a feel for it. It's wide spread because I've seen examples in more than one state. Come and buy a home next to the Goverment housing and see what our dollars get for ya!

Your idealistic views are flawed as is our system. Before welfare was created we had community support and less issues. People like you live in La,La land and assume that everyting is fine as long as its not in your backyard.

How about Doing some community service and get your hands dirty dealing with Welfare people.

My views are from Facts and experience. How about you?
#150 Jan 18 2009 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
Tailmon, how do you suppose the welfare system should be fixed?

There will always be loopholes. There will always be millionaires on welfare.

No matter how you think it can be "fixed".
#151 Jan 18 2009 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
Worst. Title. Ever!
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17,302 posts
Kalivha wrote:
Tailmon, how do you suppose the welfare system should be fixed?

There will always be loopholes. There will always be millionaires on welfare.

No matter how you think it can be "fixed".


Our new HR director fixes Workman's Comp leechers by making a list of "Light Duty" jobs which are given to the Handler and the Doctors.

They then make the people come into work and do fairly annoying, menial work. Like sorting bolts in bins.

So rather than staying at home and getting paid, they have to come into work and be bored to death (Still doing work well within their doctor's limitations. This makes them heal faster, and be less likely to slack off and mooch off the system. He's even had places where they have set up some chairs in the break room and make the employees watch various saftey and operations videos and fill out questionaires. Anything to limit their time sitting around at home, still getting paid.


Maybe something to this effect could be applied to welfare. Why not mandate community service for those recieving welfare. X or Y hours per week. This way those that are recieving it for legitimate reasons continue to, and those that are trying to ride the system and not have to work suddenly have to do work in order to keep their free money, making it less appealing to the free riders.
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