Hey all. I'll admit that I'm technically inept when it comes to hardware difficulties on my PC, and I could use some assistance.
I use a USB analog controller similar to those for a PS2 to play FFXI. No problems with it for the past 4 years or so. However, just this past weekend, I started having some serious issues, and would really appreciate any assistance, adive, suggestions, insights, etc.
Here's what happened:
I was running about on my toon, smacking things around with extreme prejudice when, in mid battle, the light indicating that my USB controllers analog controls are active went off.
A bit perplexed, I hit the button a couple of times, but the controller was totally unresponsive. I attempted to use the mouse but found that equally useless. The keyboard was, unfortunately, nonfunctioning as well.
Thankfully, the toon was able to finish off the mob on auto pilot. I was unable to logout with no controller, mouse, or keyboard, however, and had to shut the computer off.
I removed the controller from its USB port and rebooted the computer, at which point the mouse and keyboard were functioning normally. I plugged the controller back in and everything seemed to be working fine still. I hit the button to activate analog, the red light came on, but went out seconds later. Then I noticed that the laser in the optical mouse was out, and the keyboard was useless once again.
I turned off the computer, gave it a few minutes, and turned it back on with the controller still plugged in. The mouse and keyboard were functioning again.
I checked Device Manager for potential conflicts, but none were visible. So, I decided to do some online research. I found a similar problem that was resolved by disabling the option to turn the USB hub off to save power under the Power Management tab for the USB Hubs in Device Manager. I did that, logged back into the game, and everything seemed fine. Seemed fine.
Midway through another mob, the controller died again, along with the mouse and keyboard. My toon still won, though (Hooray! No EXP loss!)
I turned off the computer, turned it back on, checked all drivers (all were up to date, but I uninstalled and reinstalled anyway). And yet the behavior continues. I decided to try plugging a thumb drive from work in a USB port (in fact I tried every combination of controller/thumb drive, mouse, and keyboard available on my 4 USB ports), and in each case the mouse, keyboard, and variable device all failed, requiring me to the computer off.
My wife said that she noticed an electrical burning smell before, but suspected it was just her being preggers (and obscene sense of smell), but I soon noticed one after my first couple of tests.
So, I really need some help. I don't think I can afford a new computer right now, but my computer's been a faithful one for 6 years, so repairing whatever may be damaged (if its reparable) may even cost as much if not more than the computer's worth.
Does anyone have any ideas of what these symptoms may indicate is going on? It definitely seems to be a hardware related issue to me, but, as I said, I'm quite inept at such issues.
Any help would be appreciated VERY much!
Thanks!
Chris
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Fried USB or Power Supply?Follow
Well, it certainly sounds as if there may be a short but let me ask you a few things off the top of my head.
On the side of the power supply, what is the wattage and what other details are listed on it?
How many fans do you have internally and are all of them running?
Have you blown the dust out of the case recently? If not, I highly advise doing so.
How is the PC connected to the wall? Power strip or direct connect? Sitting on carpeted floor or otherwise? If it's in a power strip, what else is connected to that power strip and how old is it? I had a client recently who's PC kept shutting down when her Dell speakers power brick was connected to the power strip she was using. Turns out the thing was way old and needed a replacement. The power from the PC, monitor and speakers was blowing it every time and ended up costing her a new power supply and 2 hrs of my labor to isolate all the issues.
The machine appears to work when you don't have devices connected via USB other than mouse/keyboard and works initially with the controller or a thumb plugged in then they all die so my thought is that you might have a short on the mainboard near the USB that is affecting the peripheral connectors, you may have have dust in the PC components (vid card, sound card etc) causing static discharge or dust in the case itself getting blown around and doing the same thing, which can also cause a burning smell if it's really built up bad and eventually kill the capacitors on the PC. Without seeing it up close, I can't be 100% sure.
On the side of the power supply, what is the wattage and what other details are listed on it?
How many fans do you have internally and are all of them running?
Have you blown the dust out of the case recently? If not, I highly advise doing so.
How is the PC connected to the wall? Power strip or direct connect? Sitting on carpeted floor or otherwise? If it's in a power strip, what else is connected to that power strip and how old is it? I had a client recently who's PC kept shutting down when her Dell speakers power brick was connected to the power strip she was using. Turns out the thing was way old and needed a replacement. The power from the PC, monitor and speakers was blowing it every time and ended up costing her a new power supply and 2 hrs of my labor to isolate all the issues.
The machine appears to work when you don't have devices connected via USB other than mouse/keyboard and works initially with the controller or a thumb plugged in then they all die so my thought is that you might have a short on the mainboard near the USB that is affecting the peripheral connectors, you may have have dust in the PC components (vid card, sound card etc) causing static discharge or dust in the case itself getting blown around and doing the same thing, which can also cause a burning smell if it's really built up bad and eventually kill the capacitors on the PC. Without seeing it up close, I can't be 100% sure.
Scholar
34 posts
Hey Wordaen, thanks replying :)
I just got done doing some poking around inside the case and the power supply is 160W.
Internally there are three fans: one beneath the power supply, another large one on the back of the box, and another on the video card.
The PC is connected to a power strip and is resting on a tile floor. The power strip holds eight plugs, 4 of which are being used right now. The box and monitor are both plugged in, the speakers (single line from the sub woofer) and my DSL modem.
While inside I did blow out the dust. Quite a bit had accumulated since last I was in there, and I could see how that could quite easily cause problems with static and general interference.
Interestingly enough, I did notice what appeared to be a degree of bulge on a couple of the capacitors (no READILY visible discharge however), but after doing some google searches, I've seen some capacitors labeled as fine and others as bulging and in many cases the differences eluded my eyes. Now I'm trying to identify what constitutes a bulging capacitor heh.
I'm going to give it a bit of testing now. As you said, the problems appear to arise on the USB side of things. I'm hoping it's just dust! I'll have a go for a bit and post the results here :)
Thanks again, Wordaen!
I just got done doing some poking around inside the case and the power supply is 160W.
Internally there are three fans: one beneath the power supply, another large one on the back of the box, and another on the video card.
The PC is connected to a power strip and is resting on a tile floor. The power strip holds eight plugs, 4 of which are being used right now. The box and monitor are both plugged in, the speakers (single line from the sub woofer) and my DSL modem.
While inside I did blow out the dust. Quite a bit had accumulated since last I was in there, and I could see how that could quite easily cause problems with static and general interference.
Interestingly enough, I did notice what appeared to be a degree of bulge on a couple of the capacitors (no READILY visible discharge however), but after doing some google searches, I've seen some capacitors labeled as fine and others as bulging and in many cases the differences eluded my eyes. Now I'm trying to identify what constitutes a bulging capacitor heh.
I'm going to give it a bit of testing now. As you said, the problems appear to arise on the USB side of things. I'm hoping it's just dust! I'll have a go for a bit and post the results here :)
Thanks again, Wordaen!
So, you have a low wattage power supply and you have some bulging capacitors. Not so good. To determine if a capacitor has "bulge", if it doesn't look like a straight up n down black and silver cylinder and the top appears to be "strained", with the black starting to push out underneath it even slightly, that typically is what the bulge refers to.
Out of curiosity, is the system a Dell? We had some issues on a contract I worked on where a specific brand of motherboards had a bad capacitor issue that was causing random shut downs, blue screens, etc etc.
Even if not, you might be looking at a precursor to a board failure. The USB is integrated so when one part starts going out, the rest typically tends to follow at varying times, none of which are ideal.
You can definitely do some testing but I would venture a guess that you might want to start saving up for a newer board. You can actually get a pretty decent setup with a board, chip and, in some cases, RAM, for a couple hundred tops. Mebbe not "top of the line" but workable given the budget and all.
http://www.pricewatch.com
http://www.newegg.com
Couple sites for you if you need.
http://www.motherboards.org
http://www.tomshardware.com
Great review sites of motherboards that will give you some good information that is not "super geek" oriented.
Out of curiosity, is the system a Dell? We had some issues on a contract I worked on where a specific brand of motherboards had a bad capacitor issue that was causing random shut downs, blue screens, etc etc.
Even if not, you might be looking at a precursor to a board failure. The USB is integrated so when one part starts going out, the rest typically tends to follow at varying times, none of which are ideal.
You can definitely do some testing but I would venture a guess that you might want to start saving up for a newer board. You can actually get a pretty decent setup with a board, chip and, in some cases, RAM, for a couple hundred tops. Mebbe not "top of the line" but workable given the budget and all.
http://www.pricewatch.com
http://www.newegg.com
Couple sites for you if you need.
http://www.motherboards.org
http://www.tomshardware.com
Great review sites of motherboards that will give you some good information that is not "super geek" oriented.
Scholar
34 posts
Well'p, Wordaen, I would have to agree — the outlook isn't particularly bright for this old box. Exact same results. Looks like a "new" rig is in my future. Honestly, I suspect that, given the age of my machine, purchasing a new board and related hardware might cost more than the machine is worth. I mean, it's ancient by technological standards — 6 years. I've survived, many times having to clear or burn a metric crap ton of files to install other necessary programs. 40 GB is quite a meager storage capacity by today's standards.
Nope, not a Dell :) It's Gateway. I did stumble across some info about Dell issues.
Nonetheless, I am open to options. I took a look at TigerDirect for some of their refurbs, but I'll definitely check the other links, and really appreciate your mentioning them in your post.
You have been a wonderfully great help, my friend! I am very thankful for taking a "look" at all this for me :)
Nope, not a Dell :) It's Gateway. I did stumble across some info about Dell issues.
Nonetheless, I am open to options. I took a look at TigerDirect for some of their refurbs, but I'll definitely check the other links, and really appreciate your mentioning them in your post.
You have been a wonderfully great help, my friend! I am very thankful for taking a "look" at all this for me :)
Glad to be of assistance. Sorry the news wasn't the good kind though.
When you do go for a newer system, I would recommend a good sized power supply and 2 Gb of RAM if you can swing it. I know after the holiday is always hard on ppl. Here's a basic setup you can use to start from:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Intel Core2 Duo E4500 2.2GHz 2M 800Mhz Processor
2GB DDR2 PC5400 667MHz Dual Channel (1GB x 2)
250GB 7200RPM 3G SATA II Hard Drive
52X32X52/16x CDRW/DVD Combo Drive
52x32x52 CDRW Drive
3.5" 1.44MB Floppy Drive Black
Radeon X1050 256MB PCI-Express (1DVI / 1VGA)
Integrated 10/100 Network Adapter
CA eTrust Anti-Virus 2007 (1 Year Free Updates)
Integrated Realtek ALC883 High-Def Audio
1 Year Parts & Labor Warranty w/ 1 Year Onsite
Ultra 6 Outlet Surge w/ Modem & Fax Protection
Asus P5GC-MX 945GC mATX Motherboard
500 Watt Power Supply
Now, this is by no means a "great" system, it's just a quick and dirty cobbled together from Tiger Direct. There are better video cards, etc etc.
The reason I posted it is to give you something to start from if you are going to look for a newer machine. This one would run you around 750 bones, which includes the OS.
If you like, myself and a few other posters here could probably give you some ideas and post some configs that will give you a really good system for a bit less than that. If that is of interest, let me know what kind of budget you need to stay in and we can give you a hand. Or you can PM me if you like.
When you do go for a newer system, I would recommend a good sized power supply and 2 Gb of RAM if you can swing it. I know after the holiday is always hard on ppl. Here's a basic setup you can use to start from:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Intel Core2 Duo E4500 2.2GHz 2M 800Mhz Processor
2GB DDR2 PC5400 667MHz Dual Channel (1GB x 2)
250GB 7200RPM 3G SATA II Hard Drive
52X32X52/16x CDRW/DVD Combo Drive
52x32x52 CDRW Drive
3.5" 1.44MB Floppy Drive Black
Radeon X1050 256MB PCI-Express (1DVI / 1VGA)
Integrated 10/100 Network Adapter
CA eTrust Anti-Virus 2007 (1 Year Free Updates)
Integrated Realtek ALC883 High-Def Audio
1 Year Parts & Labor Warranty w/ 1 Year Onsite
Ultra 6 Outlet Surge w/ Modem & Fax Protection
Asus P5GC-MX 945GC mATX Motherboard
500 Watt Power Supply
Now, this is by no means a "great" system, it's just a quick and dirty cobbled together from Tiger Direct. There are better video cards, etc etc.
The reason I posted it is to give you something to start from if you are going to look for a newer machine. This one would run you around 750 bones, which includes the OS.
If you like, myself and a few other posters here could probably give you some ideas and post some configs that will give you a really good system for a bit less than that. If that is of interest, let me know what kind of budget you need to stay in and we can give you a hand. Or you can PM me if you like.
Scholar
34 posts
Here's a link to one I've been eyeing:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3169478&Sku=G153-GT5432
For $329 it doesn't look too shabby. Especially when put side by side with my 1.8 GHz processor, 512 MB RAM, and whopping 40GB HD, ready to drop dead PC heh.
Of course there is some risk involved in that it's a refurb, and I'm not TOO thrilled about an integrated video card. Has anyone had any experience with the GeForce 6100 SE before? Another issue I see on the above-linked box is that there are some complaints about a seemingly small power supply.
I'm wanting to stay under $400 if at all possible, but DEFINITELY under $500.
Any thoughts? :)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3169478&Sku=G153-GT5432
For $329 it doesn't look too shabby. Especially when put side by side with my 1.8 GHz processor, 512 MB RAM, and whopping 40GB HD, ready to drop dead PC heh.
Of course there is some risk involved in that it's a refurb, and I'm not TOO thrilled about an integrated video card. Has anyone had any experience with the GeForce 6100 SE before? Another issue I see on the above-linked box is that there are some complaints about a seemingly small power supply.
I'm wanting to stay under $400 if at all possible, but DEFINITELY under $500.
Any thoughts? :)
A company I also use for some prebuilt barebone stuff is Ascendtech. You can get a decent machine for around 400 bones there that will be a bit better than what you have and give you some extended game playability.
A quick build I put together ran $415.00. I would say, in this case, you might want to check them out as well, because you can mix and match from a set of options and use a rolling price window to track your budget limit.
http://www.ascendtech.us
A quick build I put together ran $415.00. I would say, in this case, you might want to check them out as well, because you can mix and match from a set of options and use a rolling price window to track your budget limit.
http://www.ascendtech.us
Scholar
34 posts
Wow! I much prefer the options on Ascendtech to TigerDirect! Fantastic link, my friend! Would you mind telling me the specs on your $415 build?
This is the one I was playing with for you. Granted, it's not a "super high end" system but what you can do is pirate some of the stuff from your old system to add into this one. Such as the old hard drive (use the new one as a storage / programs / applications drive), the fans, the keyboard and mouse, speakers, monitor, etc. Keep all the cabling in case you need it, keep the ram in case you ever want to monkey around with it.
This system is actually 420.93 w/o shipping (I changed the hard drive to sata cause those have better data transfer rates and are a lot more stable). Shipping will probably run you around $30.00 or so. Here's the direct link to this one so you can play around with it some: http://www.ascendtech.us/customkititems.asp?kc=DTBBA33GX23800#customize
Ecs Geforce 6100sm-M Pci-Ex16 Sata2 Ddr2
Amd Athlon 64 X2 S.Am2 3800+ Dual-Core
Standard Cooling Fan & Heatsink Combo
1gb Pc2 5300 667mhz Ddr-2 Dual Channel
250gb Sata150 7200rpm Hard Drive
Ati Radeon 256mb X600 Pro Dual Vga Video
House Brand Cdrw Cd Burner Ide Drive
REALTEK 3D 6-CHANNEL SOUND
BROADCOM AC131 10/100Mbps FAST ETHERNET ADAPTER (LAN)
Mitsumi 3.5" Black Floppy Disk Drive
Atx Black 6-Bay Case With Power Supply
550watt Atx 4.5" Fan Sata Power Supply
Standard Assembly Ships Out In 3-7 Business Days
Ms Windows Xp Home Edition
This system is actually 420.93 w/o shipping (I changed the hard drive to sata cause those have better data transfer rates and are a lot more stable). Shipping will probably run you around $30.00 or so. Here's the direct link to this one so you can play around with it some: http://www.ascendtech.us/customkititems.asp?kc=DTBBA33GX23800#customize
Ecs Geforce 6100sm-M Pci-Ex16 Sata2 Ddr2
Amd Athlon 64 X2 S.Am2 3800+ Dual-Core
Standard Cooling Fan & Heatsink Combo
1gb Pc2 5300 667mhz Ddr-2 Dual Channel
250gb Sata150 7200rpm Hard Drive
Ati Radeon 256mb X600 Pro Dual Vga Video
House Brand Cdrw Cd Burner Ide Drive
REALTEK 3D 6-CHANNEL SOUND
BROADCOM AC131 10/100Mbps FAST ETHERNET ADAPTER (LAN)
Mitsumi 3.5" Black Floppy Disk Drive
Atx Black 6-Bay Case With Power Supply
550watt Atx 4.5" Fan Sata Power Supply
Standard Assembly Ships Out In 3-7 Business Days
Ms Windows Xp Home Edition
Scholar
34 posts
This info is extremely useful, Wordaen. Thank you for all your help! You have no idea how much I appreciate all the time you've taken to help me out here. Sir, I owe you a drink! You ever come down to OKC, I'm good for it... once I recover from buying a computer, that is ;)
Thanks again, man!
Chris
Thanks again, man!
Chris
Glad to be of assistance :)
Scholar
34 posts
Well, I suspected this thread was ending with my resigning to having to get a new computer, and perhaps that's still the case, but I did a little more investigating and found a rather interesting occurrence that correlates with the controller and USB devices going dead.
I suspect I'll still be getting another box (I really like the one you recommended from AscendTech by the way. I think I'll be ordering that at the beginning of next week).
Here's what I noticed
In Device Manager, the Human Interface Devices section completely disappears whenever the controller/thumb, mouse, and keyboard go dead. I plugged in an older PS2 keyboard I found in the garage, and was able to check the Generic USB hub, the 2 USB controllers, and the two USB root hubs. It appears that at the same time HIDs disappear, the devices showing as being used in Generic USB Hub Properties resets to 0.
While I in no way doubt that there are more critical issues given the state of the capacitors and the quite stench-tastic electric burn smell, would you consider, barring the other issues, rebuilding the USB Driver Stack?
I suspect I'll still be getting another box (I really like the one you recommended from AscendTech by the way. I think I'll be ordering that at the beginning of next week).
Here's what I noticed
In Device Manager, the Human Interface Devices section completely disappears whenever the controller/thumb, mouse, and keyboard go dead. I plugged in an older PS2 keyboard I found in the garage, and was able to check the Generic USB hub, the 2 USB controllers, and the two USB root hubs. It appears that at the same time HIDs disappear, the devices showing as being used in Generic USB Hub Properties resets to 0.
While I in no way doubt that there are more critical issues given the state of the capacitors and the quite stench-tastic electric burn smell, would you consider, barring the other issues, rebuilding the USB Driver Stack?
Well, you can rebuild the USB by removing the reg keys, rebooting then reconnecting the devices but if you have a short on the board, the problem will re-occur. However, that being said, before you buy a new machine, it certainly won't hurt anything to try it. Short of using a voltage meter on the board to test for a short, it's probably one of the easiest ways.
Now, before you do anything in here, back it up first. To do this, click start - run - regedit and click OK. Once the registry editor loads, click file - export and you will get a pop up window asking where to save it and what file name. Give it a name you will remember and save it to a place you will remember, then, at the bottom of the window, choose the option "All" under export range. Click save and give it a minute. Depending on the registry size, this can take 10 seconds to a minute or two.
At this point, if you are comfortable in the registry, you can now browse to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\USB and check the keys that start with vid_xx etc. These are the keys specific to your USB devices. Click the "+" next to each one, then click either of the sub keys and it will show what it is attached to on the right side pane.
For example, on my machine, *\Vid_045e&Pid_00dd&MI_00\6&101516f8&0&0000 points to my keyboard. To remove a key, right click it on the left side then choose "delete". Now, it will prompt you if you are sure. Click ok and repeat as needed for only the specific devices. Once this is done, close the registry, shut down any open programs and choose "shut down", not reboot. Once the machine is down, make sure any USB devices have been unplugged, use your PS2 keyboard and plug in a USB mouse and boot up.
Once the mouse is detected, add in the keyboard. Test this for a little while, then add in the other devices one at a time to see how the system acts.
Let me know how this works.
Now, before you do anything in here, back it up first. To do this, click start - run - regedit and click OK. Once the registry editor loads, click file - export and you will get a pop up window asking where to save it and what file name. Give it a name you will remember and save it to a place you will remember, then, at the bottom of the window, choose the option "All" under export range. Click save and give it a minute. Depending on the registry size, this can take 10 seconds to a minute or two.
At this point, if you are comfortable in the registry, you can now browse to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\USB and check the keys that start with vid_xx etc. These are the keys specific to your USB devices. Click the "+" next to each one, then click either of the sub keys and it will show what it is attached to on the right side pane.
For example, on my machine, *\Vid_045e&Pid_00dd&MI_00\6&101516f8&0&0000 points to my keyboard. To remove a key, right click it on the left side then choose "delete". Now, it will prompt you if you are sure. Click ok and repeat as needed for only the specific devices. Once this is done, close the registry, shut down any open programs and choose "shut down", not reboot. Once the machine is down, make sure any USB devices have been unplugged, use your PS2 keyboard and plug in a USB mouse and boot up.
Once the mouse is detected, add in the keyboard. Test this for a little while, then add in the other devices one at a time to see how the system acts.
Let me know how this works.
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