Crusader/Witch Doctor doesn't have the problem as much, but I hate how all the other classes are "Cindercoat/+attack speed/+crit chance/+crit damage all the way" running Fire builds. And even then, the monk doesn't do as muhc damage.
I don't know, it just seems like there's not nearly as much build variety as I would like. A monk uses Sweeping Wind - Cyclone, Dashing Strike, a generator, Lashing Tail Kick, your choice of like 3 good mantra runes, and mayyyyyybe Cyclone strike but probably just Fire ally with the Unity passive.
A Demon Hunter is lolstrafe or lolLoadedForBear all day erryday, both using Cindercoat.
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Bored Druid Thread: The Next GenerationFollow
Sir Xsarus wrote:
I really need to put proper gear onto my scoundrel
I run so much stuff with someone else that it doesn't matter much. Also I have the legendary never die item for the templar, which is nice.
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The templar is still an annoying **** though. Also does pitiful damage and doesn't boost your damage like the other two do.
He generates resources and boosts life per second, so he's by far my favorite companion. Tried using the Scoundrel on Belial, because I needed a tiny bit more damage output, but his lack of toughness resulted in him being incapacitated non-stop for the duration of the fight.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
I never had a problem with staying alive as a monk so more dmg = faster farming = better.
And I don't get why varus is left unbanned, the Asylum has plummeyed back to the same old boring non interactive ******** threads where varus goes on various retarded rants saying the exact same **** he's been saying for years. It's even worse than Alma or Gbaji threads.
And I don't get why varus is left unbanned, the Asylum has plummeyed back to the same old boring non interactive ******** threads where varus goes on various retarded rants saying the exact same **** he's been saying for years. It's even worse than Alma or Gbaji threads.
Faster +1's
I have nothing to do with banning actual users, so I can't comment. I spend all of my time nuking ******* kitchen and movie threads.
I have nothing to do with banning actual users, so I can't comment. I spend all of my time nuking ******* kitchen and movie threads.
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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Don't worry too much, it's only a matter of time before he gets too comfortable and says something he shouldn't have anyway.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Faster +1's
I have nothing to do with banning actual users, so I can't comment. I spend all of my time nuking @#%^ing kitchen and movie threads.
I have nothing to do with banning actual users, so I can't comment. I spend all of my time nuking @#%^ing kitchen and movie threads.
So YOU are the reason I have no idea where to go for kitchen appliances or to watch Frozen!
Honestly, I don't think extensive build diversity can be expected within the context of "everyone gets everything," because there's just no way a company has the resources to balance that. Each individual ability would need to be relatively balanced against the rest of the viable abilities, and then the overarching strategies those enable would need to be balanced.
It can sort of work if you have key, crux abilities that builds get designed around...
... which is really all skill trees are.
It can sort of work if you have key, crux abilities that builds get designed around...
... which is really all skill trees are.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
That's part of why I feel Blizzard's minimal skill trees are a failure, there is just always an optimal choice and people are going to find it.
Yeah, I don't like anything about the modern Blizzard talent systems (Diablo or WoW's). Never did, still don't.
Elder Scrolls Online seems to have a better system, since weapons have their own skills, and you can morph your class skills (and you can't just switch your morph on the fly, a la runes or whatever).
But, even then, it pretty much ensures class skills will never be as powerful as weapon skills. They can keep weapon skills exclusive, so they know people won't be able to cherry pick only the strongest skills. That means they can create weapon skill synergies, and use the class skills as more situational skills.
Problem? Class skills are generally more interesting, so them being weaker is a weird design problem.
I don't think the classic skill tree is the end-all, be-all by any means. But I just really don't like the "everyone gets everything" approach, and I think there are plenty of alternative options to growth that just aren't being explored because everyone is either going the everyone-gets-everything route, or the classic tree route.
Elder Scrolls Online seems to have a better system, since weapons have their own skills, and you can morph your class skills (and you can't just switch your morph on the fly, a la runes or whatever).
But, even then, it pretty much ensures class skills will never be as powerful as weapon skills. They can keep weapon skills exclusive, so they know people won't be able to cherry pick only the strongest skills. That means they can create weapon skill synergies, and use the class skills as more situational skills.
Problem? Class skills are generally more interesting, so them being weaker is a weird design problem.
I don't think the classic skill tree is the end-all, be-all by any means. But I just really don't like the "everyone gets everything" approach, and I think there are plenty of alternative options to growth that just aren't being explored because everyone is either going the everyone-gets-everything route, or the classic tree route.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
That's part of why I feel Blizzard's minimal skill trees are a failure, there is just always an optimal choice and people are going to find it.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
I can't comment on WOW but I really enjoy the D3 trees, at least the hunter one. I always have multiple options and can change my spec to suit a need which is really nice.
What don't you like about them?
What don't you like about them?
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lolgaxe wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
That's part of why I feel Blizzard's minimal skill trees are a failure, there is just always an optimal choice and people are going to find it.
Because reducing the window you need to design a build around to one encounter, where you get to know a ton of information going into it, completely destroys any actual notion of "options."
You don't have options in any interesting sense, you have one or two really obviously superior methods to approach a specific encounter, and everything else is you choosing to be noticeably underpowered. And the fact that everyone has access to the ideal toolkit means that devs balance around everyone running with the ideal toolkit, further reducing your ability to deviate.
But when the window your build needs to function with is much larger, when it includes a big diversity of content and unknowns, you actually make decisions about your character and how you want to play, and devs can balance encounters around that (it's fine if someone has the ideal build for one encounter, because they won't for another).
I need to make real decisions about single target vs. multi-target vs. AoE abilities, CC and maneuverability, level of defenses, etc. And it matters, because I'm going to be using that build against a variety of enemies.
And that's interesting, and it's meaningful, and there are way fewer right and wrong answers. Outside of serious balance inconsistencies, I get real choices.
If Diablo forced you to choose a build for the entire Act (or start over), or something, I'd find its skill system WAY more interesting.
You don't have options in any interesting sense, you have one or two really obviously superior methods to approach a specific encounter, and everything else is you choosing to be noticeably underpowered. And the fact that everyone has access to the ideal toolkit means that devs balance around everyone running with the ideal toolkit, further reducing your ability to deviate.
But when the window your build needs to function with is much larger, when it includes a big diversity of content and unknowns, you actually make decisions about your character and how you want to play, and devs can balance encounters around that (it's fine if someone has the ideal build for one encounter, because they won't for another).
I need to make real decisions about single target vs. multi-target vs. AoE abilities, CC and maneuverability, level of defenses, etc. And it matters, because I'm going to be using that build against a variety of enemies.
And that's interesting, and it's meaningful, and there are way fewer right and wrong answers. Outside of serious balance inconsistencies, I get real choices.
If Diablo forced you to choose a build for the entire Act (or start over), or something, I'd find its skill system WAY more interesting.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
If D3 forced you to lock into a single build per act you'd only run the story as few times as possible and then run the same little efficient farming circle over and over and over with whatever the ideal farming build is.
True, just replace that with some kind of time lock, then. Like 3 hours of play time per build or something, or some kind of 3 mission/portal/adventures/whatever the hell people do now.
Basically, a system that meant you could switch up your build to try new things, but that also meant you weren't going to be adapting your build per situation and had to design it at the macro level.
Basically, a system that meant you could switch up your build to try new things, but that also meant you weren't going to be adapting your build per situation and had to design it at the macro level.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Wouldn't change anything if it was time based and I doubt you could affect anything aside from making people whine more or less no matter how you do it.
Obviously, the game wasn't built with this infrastructure. Not much you can do when the ground-up design is different.
That was more an example situation than an actual recommendation for D3's future development.
That was more an example situation than an actual recommendation for D3's future development.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Locking you in for an entire act would be a terrible idea. As it is, the idea that in D3 you're locked into one way of playing is laughable. I've been clearing T2-T3 with two different specs very effectively, with a third possible, although I'd need to build a new gear set for it. That's ignoring the difference in secondary talents that are feasible.
Encounters aren't static, you don't really know what affixes you'll get until you see the mobs, so you can't really plan for it beyond building a solid general build. There will always be better builds than anything else, you can't avoid it, but I'd say that D3 is pretty good for actually given you playstyle options.
I've only played Demon hunter extensively at 70. Perhaps all the other classes are horribly broken except for one super spec.
Edited, Apr 25th 2014 11:46am by Xsarus
Encounters aren't static, you don't really know what affixes you'll get until you see the mobs, so you can't really plan for it beyond building a solid general build. There will always be better builds than anything else, you can't avoid it, but I'd say that D3 is pretty good for actually given you playstyle options.
I've only played Demon hunter extensively at 70. Perhaps all the other classes are horribly broken except for one super spec.
Edited, Apr 25th 2014 11:46am by Xsarus
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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Hey digg, I know you've got at least a passing interest in female Marvel characters, especially ones who are female version of preexisting male ones, so have some Galacta, Daughter of Galactus.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
Maybe this is different on the PC, but on the PS3 I never had ANY issue seeing what mobs I would be facing and had ample time to switch my abilities if I wanted to (which I sometimes did).
I'm aware encounters aren't static. But my experience with the game isn't one where you're not able to change to a new build before engaging with a new type of mobs, in new populations. The only time I ever had surprises in encounters was when you head into one of those alcoves off a main hall that's kept really dark until you're in it.
And even then, you knew you'd want AoE skills going into those rooms.
The sum of that meant that this: was completely false, even when ignoring the fact that the PS3 version lets you change abilities mid-battle.
It was never, never wise for me to build a smart general build, because a general build was ALWAYS under-powered relative to the tailored build (unsurprisingly), and it was quite easy to jump into a tailored build. It was stupid to have more than one single target ability for general dungeoning, because you could quickly switch in more before engaging a pack that had named mobs. And then your boss battles had you jump into a dedicated kiting/ST/survivability build.
My choices never mattered. There was no permanence, no value to my decisions. They'd matter for a few seconds, and then I'd make a new build choice moments later that mattered for a few more seconds.
Having access to a tool that was perfect for every situation made the entire combat system feel incredibly boring to me. Sure, sometimes the endless destruction aspect is fun. But it will never be interesting enough to me to hold my attention.
And since I don't see any particular pros if having the D3's access-to-everything system, at the actual player experience level, it really just sucks to me.
I'm aware encounters aren't static. But my experience with the game isn't one where you're not able to change to a new build before engaging with a new type of mobs, in new populations. The only time I ever had surprises in encounters was when you head into one of those alcoves off a main hall that's kept really dark until you're in it.
And even then, you knew you'd want AoE skills going into those rooms.
The sum of that meant that this:
Quote:
Encounters aren't static, you don't really know what affixes you'll get until you see the mobs, so you can't really plan for it beyond building a solid general build.
It was never, never wise for me to build a smart general build, because a general build was ALWAYS under-powered relative to the tailored build (unsurprisingly), and it was quite easy to jump into a tailored build. It was stupid to have more than one single target ability for general dungeoning, because you could quickly switch in more before engaging a pack that had named mobs. And then your boss battles had you jump into a dedicated kiting/ST/survivability build.
My choices never mattered. There was no permanence, no value to my decisions. They'd matter for a few seconds, and then I'd make a new build choice moments later that mattered for a few more seconds.
Having access to a tool that was perfect for every situation made the entire combat system feel incredibly boring to me. Sure, sometimes the endless destruction aspect is fun. But it will never be interesting enough to me to hold my attention.
And since I don't see any particular pros if having the D3's access-to-everything system, at the actual player experience level, it really just sucks to me.
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
Well, you can't change spec mid battle on the PC version, and even if you could, constantly changing your spec would be a huge slow down to running through rifts or adventure mode. Generally speed is important, as you want to get a few bounties or rifts in, so you need to come up with a spec and make it work for the whole run. It would be way too slow to always be constantly changing specs, the whole idea is that as a party you are almost always moving. If you were in a party always changing specs, you'd never actually be contributing to any battle and would get kicked pretty damn quick.
You also need to acquire gear to make different builds work, so I had a very good frost set, which was doing quite well in T1, T2, while building a fire set. I also have a Multishot speed set for running through lower Torments with newer players. The fact that I can set up multiple very different builds is great. I can also go for more of a stand and shoot, or more kiting with the various options and can tailor that as my dps goes up or down, and I need to adapt to the different situation. I love that I have different combinations, so I can change out my movement and resource talents for other ones, and just adapt my playstyle. I can also put on my resource recovery bracers and then change the similar talent to another one that's more situational.
Story bosses aren't really a big part of end game, but just to speak to that, I loved that while leveling I could take a different approach to a boss if I needed to. There were usually different ways to beat a boss, which is fun.
Edited, Apr 25th 2014 12:35pm by Xsarus
You also need to acquire gear to make different builds work, so I had a very good frost set, which was doing quite well in T1, T2, while building a fire set. I also have a Multishot speed set for running through lower Torments with newer players. The fact that I can set up multiple very different builds is great. I can also go for more of a stand and shoot, or more kiting with the various options and can tailor that as my dps goes up or down, and I need to adapt to the different situation. I love that I have different combinations, so I can change out my movement and resource talents for other ones, and just adapt my playstyle. I can also put on my resource recovery bracers and then change the similar talent to another one that's more situational.
Story bosses aren't really a big part of end game, but just to speak to that, I loved that while leveling I could take a different approach to a boss if I needed to. There were usually different ways to beat a boss, which is fun.
Edited, Apr 25th 2014 12:35pm by Xsarus
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idiggory the Fussy wrote:
Maybe this is different on the PC, but on the PS3 I never had ANY issue seeing what mobs I would be facing and had ample time to switch my abilities if I wanted to (which I sometimes did).
Don't think I've ever fought an elite or champion pack that just stood around while in my field of view. I get jumped from off-screen regularly, and if I don't, the elites/champions are surrounded by little dudes that I have to plow through first - and they will aggro me the moment I get close enough to see the elite/champion.
Edit: But even if I could change my build on the fly to match the encounter, I really couldn't be bothered. I mean, I've killed more than a thousand elites since I started playing a month ago. Don't think I've even changed specs that much in World of Warcraft. I'm a one-solution-fits-all kind of guy. Blessed Shield build just wrecks elites regardless of their affix. Except for those Scavenger mobs... You know, the ones that put on rocks from the ground and block every goddamn thing you throw at them? God, I hate those.
Edited, Apr 25th 2014 8:59pm by Mazra
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