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Nifty thorns macro (for 4.x)Follow

#1 Oct 22 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good

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I felt I would share this macro. I made it after the 4.x patch to help my baby balance druid cast thorns on the tank without having to waste time. Its a very simple macro and I'm sure many of you could think it up yourself, but for those who aren't so macro savy here it is and what it does :)

This is a macro I've been using for thorns after the 4.0.1 patch. Its basically a tricks of the trade macro with thorns replacing tricks of the trade. Set the tank as your focus and then hit it. This is of course most useful to a Balance druid (for whom I made it), but resto can get use out of this as well.

Feral doesn't get much use out of it as thorns forces the druid into a caster form. But if you're a kitty DPS its useful as long as you realize you'll have to shift back into kitty form.

Tricks of the Thorns

 
/cast [target=focus] Thorns

Description: Set your intended target (usually a tank) as your focus target. Then click the macro and it'll automatically cast thorns on the tank without breaking your current target or requiring you to scroll through party or raid frames.

#2 Oct 24 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good

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You can add a bit to the macro if you're lazy like me and don't want to manually set and clear someone as the focus target.

#showtooltip
/clearfocus [mod:alt]
/stopmacro [mod:alt]
/cast [@focus,nodead,help] Thorns; Thorns
/stopmacro [@focus,nodead,help]
/focus [@target,help]

I'm sure most of you already know what it does, but for those of us a bit less macro savvy, I'll go through it line by line.

Title
#showtooltip will cause the macro button to display the tooltip of the next spell/ability in the macro. In this case we're only using Thorns, so it'll show the tooltip for Thorns all the time. Tip: If you use the question mark icon for your macro, it will also select the Thorns icon.

1st line
The first two lines are a sort of addendum. They have the Alt-key modifier [mod:alt] in there, so basically it's the shy kid in class, sitting in a corner, asking 'Excuse me, but did you have the Alt-key pressed down while you clicked the macro button?' If the answer is yes then it'll clear your current focus target. If the answer is no then it'll just move on.

2nd line
Again an Alt-modified command. If you hold down Alt (and thus cleared focus), this line stops the macro so that you don't instantly set your new target as focus target again.

3rd line
Translated, this line asks 'Do you have a focus target and is it alive and friendly?' If the answer is yes then it'll cast Thorns on it. If the answer is not yes (;) then it'll cast Thorns on your current target.

4th line
Translated again, this line asks 'Do you have a focus target and is it alive and friendly?' Now, if the answer is yes again then it'll stop the macro. If the answer is not yet then it'll not stop the macro.

5th line
Now, remember, if you already had a friendly and alive focus target then the macro stopped (reset) on the 4th line, so this line only comes into play if you don't have a friendly and alive focus target. And now it's done asking questions, because it knows it only comes into play if the answer is no, so it's bossy and says 'Well, your current target is now your focus target - if it's friendly'.

And now the macro ended, so it'll start from the top.

Remember, all of this happens every time you click the macro, so it's not like you have to click the button four times to go through all four lines. The above explanation was sort of stretched out to better show what goes on. Basically, the macro just checks if you have a friendly and alive focus target and casts Thorns on it. If you don't have one, it'll set your target as the focus target (provided the target is friendly) and then reset the macro.

If you hold down Alt while clicking the macro, it will clear your focus target.

Notes
I used @ instead of 'target=' to save space. Because I'm lazy like that.

Edited, Oct 24th 2010 4:26pm by Mazra

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#3 Oct 27 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good

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I think you just pwnd my macro. lol

Thank you for sharing. Replacing mine with yours now...

#4 Nov 01 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good

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Is it really any good to waste a GCD casting thorns at the tank? Is it really that helpfull?

#5 Nov 01 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent

someproteinguy

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I've been using it on the tank before he pulls LK. It's been doing about 2,500 damage per hit.

That could get quite sexy on AoE pulls.

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#6 Nov 02 2010 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good

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I don't know about how useful it is raiding (Besides as the tank pulls). But I've found it invaluable in 5-mans. I decided to look at recount and when I used it every time it was on cooldown it accounted for 20-30% of the tanks damage. Keep in mind the threat caused by thorns damage counts as the tanks threat. With tanks AoE having been nerfed pretty heftily the extra AoE threat provided by thorns is very, very useful.

#7 Nov 03 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good

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ekaterinodar wrote:

I don't know about how useful it is raiding (Besides as the tank pulls). But I've found it invaluable in 5-mans. I decided to look at recount and when I used it every time it was on cooldown it accounted for 20-30% of the tanks damage. Keep in mind the threat caused by thorns damage counts as the tanks threat. With tanks AoE having been nerfed pretty heftily the extra AoE threat provided by thorns is very, very useful.

I`m using it when I`m healing. It really helps in 5 and 10 man.
But I really dont like the idea of casting it when I`m dpsing. Maybe when the fights begin, since you wont lose any dps anyway. But during the fight, I think its inocuous, since I expect the tank has enough threat throughout the fight...if he does not, its clear something is wrong and casting thorns probably isnt the best solution avaiable.

#8 Nov 03 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent

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Well, you can do the math. Calculate how much dps thorns gives you and if it's worth a GCD.

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#9 Nov 03 2010 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent

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Sir Xsarus wrote:

Well, you can do the math. Calculate how much dps thorns gives you and if it's worth a GCD.

If thorns counts for tank damage (I`m almost sure it does), it counts 0 towards your dps. Negative if you think you could be casting something else.

#10 Nov 03 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good

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Brisin wrote:

Sir Xsarus wrote:

Well, you can do the math. Calculate how much dps thorns gives you and if it's worth a GCD.

If thorns counts for tank damage (I`m almost sure it does), it counts 0 towards your dps. Negative if you think you could be casting something else.

Uhh, what?

This has nothing to do with the number that appears on WWS, and everything to do with "what do I get for the cost of my GCD/button press/mana?"

Total damage dealt by casting Thorns on tank vs total damage you can deal in a single GCD with another spell. That's all there is to it.

#11 Nov 03 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent

someproteinguy

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1.x seconds to cast @ about 2,500 per hit...

I don't know what the DPET numbers are for other spells these days, but I'm guessing if you get 5-6 hits from 1 cast it's probably worth more then most of your other spells.

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#12 Nov 03 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent

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Overlord Norellicus wrote:

Brisin wrote:

Sir Xsarus wrote:

Well, you can do the math. Calculate how much dps thorns gives you and if it's worth a GCD.

If thorns counts for tank damage (I`m almost sure it does), it counts 0 towards your dps. Negative if you think you could be casting something else.

Uhh, what?

This has nothing to do with the number that appears on WWS, and everything to do with "what do I get for the cost of my GCD/button press/mana?"

Total damage dealt by casting Thorns on tank vs total damage you can deal in a single GCD with another spell. That's all there is to it.

Exactly. You always have to take the attitude of more damage for the raid is a good thing. It doesn't matter if recount or WWS tracks it or not. Although WWS is pretty good, there is a good chance it would take this into account.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 2:08pm by Xsarus

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#13 Nov 03 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good

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someproteinguy wrote:

1.x seconds to cast @ about 2,500 per hit...

I don't know what the DPET numbers are for other spells these days, but I'm guessing if you get 5-6 hits from 1 cast it's probably worth more then most of your other spells.

Pretty much this. It's about rDPS not your DPS. It is not you versus the boss but a group endeavor.

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#14 Nov 03 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good

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Quote:

Calculate how much dps thorns gives you and if it's worth a GCD.

As the quote above shows, you guys asked if it would count towards my DPS. I said that probably no, but I never said it would be a bad thing. Actually, I was asking about it for the reasons below:

I`m @work right now, dont have the proper tools to do the math, but you can`t consider Thorns like IS, but with a CD, since it procs onhit.
Several things would have to be take in account, not only DPET, such as mana spent, eclipse (I dont think it get buffed, but maybe it does just like the other dots), when to cast, if haste/crit affects it (I dont believe haste does, dunno about crit), if different mobs/boss proc thorn more than others, wich boss abilities/spells proc thorns and wich doesn`t and considerate that to see when its better to cast it and when you should save the CD...

Then, you have to compare it to something else. And that something can be a plethora of things, like eclipsed spell, non eclipsed spell, eclipsed dot, non eclipsed dot, starsurge, etc...
Unless you just want to see if it has the highest DPET or not. Than you just have one comparision to do, but it wont mean anything.

I`m not saying it`s impossible to calculate. I`m not saying it`s a bad thing. I`m just saying its not that simple and my FEELING is that it wouldnt add dps to the RAID, since I THINK it would be better if you cast something else.

Btw, AFAIK, the highest DPET right now for moonkins is starsurge.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 6:15pm by Brisin

#15 Nov 03 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Excellent

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Brisin wrote:

Quote:

Calculate how much dps thorns gives you and if it's worth a GCD.

As the quote above shows, you guys asked if it would count towards my DPS.

you're quoting me, and I would consider you casting thorns on a target to be your dps regardless of where recount puts it. That was certainly what I meant.

Of the cuff, I'd guess that it would definitely be a very good idea to cast it with multiple mobs. For bosses, as you said there is a decent number of factors to consider.

For reference though, apparently it scales with .421 of spell power per hit. 36% of base mana with 20s duration

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 4:21pm by Xsarus

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#16 Nov 03 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent

someproteinguy

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Brisin wrote:

I`m just saying its not that simple and my FEELING is that it wouldnt add dps to the RAID, since I THINK it would be better if you cast something else.

Linky

Quote:

Thorns: This spell does very good damage now. At around 6 procs per cast, it starts to become worth casting on cooldown. In situations where any tank is tanking multiple mobs, you will definitely want to use this on cooldown and probably Glyph it as well. Note that it is expensive, which may be an issue at 85.

Someone else did the math for you. Smiley: wink

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#17 Nov 03 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good

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Most boss fights casting thorns would likely be a waste of time. For trash it should always be worth it to cast. As most bosses have relatively slow swing timers and trash hit fast, attack speed is a huge factor. Algalon has a fast swing and DWs so it would make sense on a boss like him. Someone like Steelbreaker who swings slow and heavy, not so much.

On streaming adds style boss fights it would be situational as, using Val for example, a Risen Arch casts, an Abom melees as do Blisterings but Blazings mainly cast. Also you have to think about the added threat bump. So even then if the tank has it all under control it might not be worth it but if things are getting messy I sure he would love the added threat.

If I recall from the TB videos one of the new 5 mans will have a boss does x and adds spawn mechanic. Thorns then would be great.

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#18 Nov 03 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good

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It'll be interesting to see how many Feral tanks go daredevil and try to cast Thorns on themselves while tanking a raid boss. If the boss has a swing time of over 1.5 seconds, it should be possible to cast Thorns and not take damage while out of Bear Form, right?

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#19 Nov 03 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good

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someproteinguy: dunno why, but EJ forum doesnt open here, will have to check the link when i`m at home. But what you quoted says some part of what I think. Its mostly situational (fight with adds and aoe trash).
And, since its situational, I disagree at the glyph part. I dont think its good to glyph for it, since I think there are others glyphs more interesting right now. Unless you want to keep changing glyphs accordingly to the fight. Some do this, and would probably be good for min/max, but I don`t like to.

Horsemouth: Exactly what I was saying. You have to take in account different situations, different bosses, different spells, etc, etc...

So, if its situational, I dont think its good to add it to the fixed rotation. Unless you are in such situations. Thats pretty much what I`m saying from the beginning.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 6:39pm by Brisin

#20 Nov 03 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good

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Brisin wrote:

someproteinguy: dunno why, but EJ forum doesnt open here, will have to check the link when i`m at home. But what you quoted says some part of what I think. Its mostly situational (fight with adds and aoe trash).
And, since its situational, I disagree at the glyph part. I dont think its good to glyph for it, since I think there are others glyphs more interesting right now. Unless you want to keep changing glyphs accordingly to the fight. Some do this, and would probably be good for min/max, but I don`t like to.

Horsemouth: Exactly what I was saying. You have to take in account different situations, different bosses, different spells, etc, etc...

So, if its situational, I dont think its good to add it to the fixed rotation. Unless you are in such situations. Thats pretty much what I`m saying from the beginning.

Edited, Nov 3rd 2010 6:39pm by Brisin

I know but agreeing and not posting doesn't pad my post count.

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#21 Nov 03 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good

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Mazra wrote:

It'll be interesting to see how many Feral tanks go daredevil and try to cast Thorns on themselves while tanking a raid boss. If the boss has a swing time of over 1.5 seconds, it should be possible to cast Thorns and not take damage while out of Bear Form, right?

I don`t play feral since TBC (I even had a sticky here! heh), but I remember that, back then, you could macro Health Pot + Bear Form and you pretty much poofed and were back to Bear.
Dunno if would be the same, since Thorns should cost you a GCD. With only .5 seconds to get back to bear form, you would have to be really good at timing.
Possible, but I don`t see it as advisable.

#22 Nov 04 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good

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It's the scaling with spellpower that actually makes it good so the tank casting it on himself won't be all that amazing; but if there's a resto or boomkin in the raid, it's probably in their interest to cast it on you.

#23 Nov 05 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good

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Thorns as a cat:

First, under the assumption you are using 2/3 Furor, you need to use Thorns only when your energy is below a certain amount. The exact amount will depend on your haste since haste interacts with your energy regen per time. The default, however, needs to be less than 66 energy -10. That is, if you take a global to get out of form at 56 energy and immediately get back in form, you'd be at 66 energy at zero haste. 30% more energy regeneration would be an extra 3 energy per 10secs. So a safer threshold would likely be 53 energy or lower. When you consider latency, you may consider another 2 or 3 lower. At the end of the day, you probably don't want to cast Thorns above 50 energy as a cat with 2/3 Furor or else you're throwing away energy which could have been a Rake, or a Shred or whatever.

Next, because Feral is so reliant on bleeds, when you do cast thorns, you need to ensure that doing so does not interfere with your bleed up time. To do this, you can simply choose not to cast Thorns if Rake or Rip will expire in 3secs. You can probably throw Mangle in on that list too; don't cast Thorns if Mangle will wear off in 3secs.

Lastly, you don't want to cast Thorns when Clear Cast is available, since you may be throwing a future clear cast proc away if the current clear cast proc is not used as quickly as possible.

So, a recap. As a Feral Cat, you can cast Thorns any time your Energy is below 50 (2/3 Furor) and as long as Rake, Rip, and Mangle all have 3+secs remaining and as long as you don't have a clear cast proc.

Following this rule set, casting Thorns will be a Recount DPS loss of about 2 white hits for every Thorns you cast.

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#24 Nov 05 2010 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good

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I've got trouble remembering my keys when I leave my apartment in the morning. I think I'll stick to just mashing the keyboard and winning.

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