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I am an 80 Mage fairly well geared. Last night a mage that was not well geared outDPSed me to death. We are both arcane and have the same rotation. His damage unbuffed was 2405 and mine 2950 and I could not figure it out. Then I noticed his gear had haste gems on just about everything and his haste was 830 and mine is 590. Should I dump my SP gems and go with the +20 haste like he did, I was lead to believe SP before haste but he blew me out of the water. Any suggestions to this nub would be appreciated before I spend my gold on haste gems. If you look me up in the armory its my user name and please be nice :)I dont play a lot but really enjoy it when I do.
I hate to blow your boat, but even though I'm not sure what gear you have, 2400 DPS is fairly low at 80. And so is 3000. Aside from that, 240 haste rating, which should be approximately... 6 or 7% haste, is not going to make a 500 DPS difference. I find it far more likely that you're either doing something wrong with your rotation and he just did it a little bit better than you (though if you perfect it, 3500-4000 DPS at least isn't unthinkable if you've got post-heroic gear and are optimally specced/glyphed).
That said, you don't provide us with enough information. What fights were these DPS results on? Was this overal over one 5-man dungeon? Was it one specific boss? I can assure you the haste gems weren't what was making the difference, but with the information we have it might be something trivial like "he was specced for AOE and your meters are for an AOE fight" or something huge like "I was spamming Arcane Barrage and he was using Arcane Blast".
Edited, Apr 28th 2010 1:46am by Mozared
That said, you don't provide us with enough information. What fights were these DPS results on? Was this overal over one 5-man dungeon? Was it one specific boss? I can assure you the haste gems weren't what was making the difference, but with the information we have it might be something trivial like "he was specced for AOE and your meters are for an AOE fight" or something huge like "I was spamming Arcane Barrage and he was using Arcane Blast".
Edited, Apr 28th 2010 1:46am by Mozared
His armory
A. You have WAY too much hit. You are over the hit cap just with gear, but then take talents boosting it as well. You need 17% hit from gear+talents. Right now your Arcane spell hit is at 24.36%. Move your points from Arcane Focus to knockback resistance, and try and drop some hit from gear. Most specifically, get rid of that +hit trinket. Grabbing the Talisman of Resurgence for Triumphs will be an okay upgrade. Better on-use effect, and you get Int rather than Hit (which gives you longevity, SP and crit).
B. You are using SP/Stam gems. Don't. Use SP/Spirit in blue sockets and SP/Haste in Orange ones. Use pure SP in red ones. In your Belt of Omission, use the Nightmare tear in the Blue socket and then use two pure SP gems. For a more comprehensive report, check run yourself through Rawr.
C. You take enchants aiming more at survivability than at DpS. Instead of SP/Stam, go for SP/Spirit on your legs and SP/Crit on your shoulders. Take Black Magic on your weapon. Are you using Flasks for fights? If not your Alchemy is going to waste. Are you using food? Eat SP or Haste ones.
D. How is your mana efficiency? Are you and your friend both evocating the same number of times? If not, that's a huge difference--8 seconds of no damage is a long time. You didn't max out Arcane Meditation--do so if you have any mana issues.
E. You aren't using Mana Shield are you? I guess specific fights may work, but it is a HUGE mana drain. I advise not unless you have to. That, of course, makes Arcane Absorption useless for most fights. Use it's points for the Spirit Buff/Mana Regen buff. Move Magic Attunement to the other one.
F. What, exactly, is your rotation. And what is the actual difference in gear level? Is he also 2pc T10? I certainly hope he doesn't have 4pc T10 (and then he would pretty much outgear you, even if his average ilvl/GS was lower).
G. How do you use your CDs?
But seriously, you should download Rawr and consult it. Just google it.
[EDIT]
Moz, I think he was referring to Spell Power, not DpS. Otherwise there is a far larger issue here than gear.
Edited, Apr 27th 2010 8:20pm by idiggory
A. You have WAY too much hit. You are over the hit cap just with gear, but then take talents boosting it as well. You need 17% hit from gear+talents. Right now your Arcane spell hit is at 24.36%. Move your points from Arcane Focus to knockback resistance, and try and drop some hit from gear. Most specifically, get rid of that +hit trinket. Grabbing the Talisman of Resurgence for Triumphs will be an okay upgrade. Better on-use effect, and you get Int rather than Hit (which gives you longevity, SP and crit).
B. You are using SP/Stam gems. Don't. Use SP/Spirit in blue sockets and SP/Haste in Orange ones. Use pure SP in red ones. In your Belt of Omission, use the Nightmare tear in the Blue socket and then use two pure SP gems. For a more comprehensive report, check run yourself through Rawr.
C. You take enchants aiming more at survivability than at DpS. Instead of SP/Stam, go for SP/Spirit on your legs and SP/Crit on your shoulders. Take Black Magic on your weapon. Are you using Flasks for fights? If not your Alchemy is going to waste. Are you using food? Eat SP or Haste ones.
D. How is your mana efficiency? Are you and your friend both evocating the same number of times? If not, that's a huge difference--8 seconds of no damage is a long time. You didn't max out Arcane Meditation--do so if you have any mana issues.
E. You aren't using Mana Shield are you? I guess specific fights may work, but it is a HUGE mana drain. I advise not unless you have to. That, of course, makes Arcane Absorption useless for most fights. Use it's points for the Spirit Buff/Mana Regen buff. Move Magic Attunement to the other one.
F. What, exactly, is your rotation. And what is the actual difference in gear level? Is he also 2pc T10? I certainly hope he doesn't have 4pc T10 (and then he would pretty much outgear you, even if his average ilvl/GS was lower).
G. How do you use your CDs?
But seriously, you should download Rawr and consult it. Just google it.
[EDIT]
Moz, I think he was referring to Spell Power, not DpS. Otherwise there is a far larger issue here than gear.
Edited, Apr 27th 2010 8:20pm by idiggory
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
If Idig's post is correct your character is all sorts of messed up...
Did you read through the stickies/etc?
As idig hinted at:
your gemming is completely wrong. You NEVER gem for intellect. It is ALWAYS Spellpower/Haste in yellow sockets as arcane. You gemmed for stamina, Bad. You used a nightmare tear (worthless). Your meta gem should be a chaotic skyflare - ALWAYS no exceptions.
Incanters absorption is pretty much a worthwhile talent now, so you can drop those two point and put them somewhere else (meditation if you want).
-- As a note to Idig, don't move the points out of magic attunement, the extra 6yrds of range is excellent.
What do you mean you are using a 'rotation' as there really isn't one for arcane, but there are cycles.
I hope you got the pants from VoA, if not they were a huge waste of 95 badges for arcane (they are our worst-itemized piece).
Your hit trinket is bad and needs to be replaced, pretty much anything that is a dps trinket that doesn't give hit will probably be an improvement -- as idig noted the talisman of resurgeance from Triumph badges isn't a bad solution. That or run regular ToC (5man) for the abyssal rune, much better trinket than that one.
Oh, and the other mage shouldn't have been gemming for straight haste, it is pretty much a no-no, as the best dps gem at higher gear levels becomes reckless ametrine, but overall red = runed, yellow = reckless, blue = purified, meta = csd.
Feel free to check out the links in my sig, my armory should be gemmed correctly (with the exception of my boots, I need to get a purified in that blue socket to get the +7 spellpower bonus), and the link for how to use Rawr.
Edited, Apr 27th 2010 9:54pm by Anobix
Edited, Apr 27th 2010 9:55pm by Anobix
Edited, Apr 27th 2010 9:55pm by Anobix
Did you read through the stickies/etc?
As idig hinted at:
your gemming is completely wrong. You NEVER gem for intellect. It is ALWAYS Spellpower/Haste in yellow sockets as arcane. You gemmed for stamina, Bad. You used a nightmare tear (worthless). Your meta gem should be a chaotic skyflare - ALWAYS no exceptions.
Incanters absorption is pretty much a worthwhile talent now, so you can drop those two point and put them somewhere else (meditation if you want).
-- As a note to Idig, don't move the points out of magic attunement, the extra 6yrds of range is excellent.
What do you mean you are using a 'rotation' as there really isn't one for arcane, but there are cycles.
I hope you got the pants from VoA, if not they were a huge waste of 95 badges for arcane (they are our worst-itemized piece).
Your hit trinket is bad and needs to be replaced, pretty much anything that is a dps trinket that doesn't give hit will probably be an improvement -- as idig noted the talisman of resurgeance from Triumph badges isn't a bad solution. That or run regular ToC (5man) for the abyssal rune, much better trinket than that one.
Oh, and the other mage shouldn't have been gemming for straight haste, it is pretty much a no-no, as the best dps gem at higher gear levels becomes reckless ametrine, but overall red = runed, yellow = reckless, blue = purified, meta = csd.
Feel free to check out the links in my sig, my armory should be gemmed correctly (with the exception of my boots, I need to get a purified in that blue socket to get the +7 spellpower bonus), and the link for how to use Rawr.
Edited, Apr 27th 2010 9:54pm by Anobix
Edited, Apr 27th 2010 9:55pm by Anobix
Edited, Apr 27th 2010 9:55pm by Anobix
7 posts
Thanks guys for the advice, I will take it and run with it. Appreciate the feedback
You still haven't told us what order you use your abilities in, though, or your CDs.
You should be using something like:
Spam Arcane Blast, using your Missile Barrage procs whenever they occur and you have 0, 2, 3 or 4 stacks of the AB buff.
If you are doing something like ABx4->AM, you will be putting out WAY less DpS than you should, since you'll often find yourself casting AB 12% slower than you could be, and you'll occasionally end up casting AM twice as slow as you should. Not to mention that this is way less mana efficient.
About Arcane Attunement. Fair, but I never have a need for it. But I also don't do any progression raiding, and almost never find myself in situations where I am out of range of a boss. So it may certainly be the case the OP would get more out of it than me. For example, in VoA, I just stand on the stairs and don't move for the whole fight, and am always in range of popping orbs. :P
You should be using something like:
Spam Arcane Blast, using your Missile Barrage procs whenever they occur and you have 0, 2, 3 or 4 stacks of the AB buff.
If you are doing something like ABx4->AM, you will be putting out WAY less DpS than you should, since you'll often find yourself casting AB 12% slower than you could be, and you'll occasionally end up casting AM twice as slow as you should. Not to mention that this is way less mana efficient.
About Arcane Attunement. Fair, but I never have a need for it. But I also don't do any progression raiding, and almost never find myself in situations where I am out of range of a boss. So it may certainly be the case the OP would get more out of it than me. For example, in VoA, I just stand on the stairs and don't move for the whole fight, and am always in range of popping orbs. :P
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people
lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
idiggory wrote:
You still haven't told us what order you use your abilities in, though, or your CDs.
About Arcane Attunement. Fair, but I never have a need for it. But I also don't do any progression raiding, and almost never find myself in situations where I am out of range of a boss. So it may certainly be the case the OP would get more out of it than me. For example, in VoA, I just stand on the stairs and don't move for the whole fight, and am always in range of popping orbs. :P
About Arcane Attunement. Fair, but I never have a need for it. But I also don't do any progression raiding, and almost never find myself in situations where I am out of range of a boss. So it may certainly be the case the OP would get more out of it than me. For example, in VoA, I just stand on the stairs and don't move for the whole fight, and am always in range of popping orbs. :P
^^ - What is your 'rotation' that you speak of?
In 25man raids being spread out is a common mechanic for a lot of the fights, being able to move around freely and spread out instead of requiring to be in the front lines for every fight or else you can't reach the boss proves quite problematic.
I rest my case, rate ups for both of you there, awesome replies.
In regards to Arcane Attunement; I read Anobix here. There's a couple of talents you'll only find yourself needing if you're seriously trying some hard content - not to diss your progress, Dig. Range on your spells would be a prime example, though arguments could be made for talents like Prismatic Cloak or Magic Absorption. Though yeah, those are a lot more niche than Arcane Attunement.
In regards to Arcane Attunement; I read Anobix here. There's a couple of talents you'll only find yourself needing if you're seriously trying some hard content - not to diss your progress, Dig. Range on your spells would be a prime example, though arguments could be made for talents like Prismatic Cloak or Magic Absorption. Though yeah, those are a lot more niche than Arcane Attunement.
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