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Cataclysm Rogue Preview!Follow

#1 Apr 09 2010 at 2:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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In World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, we'll be making several changes to class talents and abilities across the board. Here, you'll get a glimpse at what's in store for the rogue class, including a look the new high-level abilities and an overview of how the new Mastery system will work with the rogue's different talent specs.

New Rogue Abilities

Redirect (available at level 81): Rogues will be getting a new ability to help them deal with changing targets. Redirect will transfer any active combo points to the rogue's current target, helping to ensure combo points aren't wasted when swapping targets or when targets die. In addition, self-buff abilities like Slice and Dice will no longer require a target, so rogues can spend extra combo points on those types of abilities (more on this below). Redirect will have a 1-minute cooldown and no other costs.

Combat Readiness (level 83): Combat Readiness is a new ability that we intend rogues to trigger defensively. While this ability is active, whenever the rogue is struck by a melee or ranged attack, he or she will gain a stacking buff called Combat Insight that results in a 10% reduction in damage taken. Combat Insight will stack up to 5 times and the timer will be refreshed whenever a new stack is applied. Our goal is to make rogues better equipped to go toe-to-toe with other melee classes when Evasion or stuns are not in play. This ability lasts 6 seconds and has a 2-minute cooldown.

Smoke Bomb (level 85): The rogue drops a Smoke Bomb, creating a cloud that interferes with enemy targeting. Enemies who are outside the cloud will find themselves unable to target units inside the cloud with single-target abilities. Enemies can move inside the cloud to attack, or they can use area-of-effect (AoE) abilities at any time to attack opponents in a cloud. In PvP, this will open up new dimensions of tactical positional gameplay, as the ability offers a variety of offensive and defensive uses. In PvE, Smoke Cloud can serve to shield your group from hostile ranged attacks, while also drawing enemies closer without the need to rely on conventional line-of-sight obstructions. Smoke Cloud lasts 10 seconds and has a 3-minute cooldown.

Changes to Abilities and Mechanics

We're also planning to make changes to some of the other abilities and mechanics you're already familiar with. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we want for each spec.

* In PvP, we want to reduce the rogue's dependency on binary cooldowns and "stun-locks," and give them more passive survivability in return. One major change is that we'll put Cheap Shot on the same diminishing return as other stuns. The increase to Armor and Stamina on cloth, leather, and mail gear will help with this goal as well.
* In PvE, even accounting for active modifiers like Slice and Dice and Envenom, a very large portion of the rogue's damage is attributable to passive sources of damage. Yes, they are using abilities for the entire duration of a fight, but we want to reduce the percentage of rogue damage that comes from auto-attacks and poisons. More of their damage will be coming from active abilities and special attacks.
* We would like to improve the rogue leveling experience. Positional attacks and DoT-ramping mechanics will be de-emphasized at low levels and then re-introduced at higher levels for group gameplay. We are also providing rogues with a new low-level ability, Recuperate, to convert combo points into a small heal-over-time (HoT).
* To complement the change to combo points, non-damage abilities such as Recuperate and Slice and Dice will no longer have target requirements and can be used with any of the rogue's existing combo points, including combo points remaining on recently killed targets. This will not affect damage abilities, which will still require combo points to be present on the specific target you want to damage. To coincide with this, the UI will be updated so that rogues know how many combo points they have active.
* Ambush will now work with all weapons, but will have a reduced coefficient when not using a dagger. When opening from Stealth, all rogues will be able to choose from burst damage, DoT abilities, or a stun.
* As we've done recently with some of the Subtlety abilities, we want to make sure more rogue abilities aren't overly penalized by weapon choice. With a few exceptions (like Backstab), you should be able to use a dagger, axe, mace, sword, or fist weapon without being penalized for most attacks.
* Deadly Throw and Fan of Knives will now use the weapon in the ranged slot. In addition, we hope to allow rogues to apply poisons to their throwing weapons.
* We are very happy with Tricks of the Trade as a general mechanic and as a way to give rogues more group utility, but we don't want it to account for as much threat transfer as it does now.



New Talents and Talent Changes

In Cataclysm, the overall feel of each of the rogue's talent trees will change, as we would like each tree to have a clearly defined niche and purpose. The talent details below are meant to give you an idea of what we're going for.

* Assassination will be more about daggers, poisons, and burst damage.
* Combat will be all about swords, maces, fist weapons, axes, and being engaged toe-to-toe with your enemies. A Combat rogue will be able to survive longer without needing to rely on Stealth and evasion mechanics.
* The Subtlety tree will primarily be based around utilizing Stealth, openers, finishers, and survivability. It'll be about daggers, too, but less so than Assassination.
* In general, Subtlety rogues needs to do more damage than they do today, and the other trees need to have more tools.
* Weapon-specialization talents (for all classes, not just rogues) are going away. We do not want you to have to respec when you get a different weapon. Interesting talents, such as Hack and Slash, will work with all weapons. Boring talents, such as Mace Specialization and Close Quarters Combat, will be going away.
* The Assassination and Combat talent trees currently have a lot of passive bonuses. We plan to dial back the amount of Critical Strike Rating provided by these trees so that rogues still want it on their gear.



Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses

Assassination

* Melee damage
* Melee critical damage
* Poison damage


Combat

* Melee damage
* Melee Haste
* Harder-hitting combo-point generators


Subtlety

* Melee damage
* Armor Penetration
* Harder-hitting finishers


The initial tier of rogue Mastery bonuses will be very similar between the trees. However, the deeper that a player goes into any tree, the more specialized and beneficial the Masteries will be to the play style for that spec. Assassination will have better poisons than the other two specs. Combat will have very steady and consistent overall damage. Subtlety will have strong finishers.

We hope you enjoyed this preview, and we're looking forward to hearing your initial thoughts and feedback on these additions and changes. Please keep in mind that this information represents a work in progress and is subject to change as development on Cataclysm continues.


Source

Edited, Apr 9th 2010 1:12am by digitalcraft
#2 Apr 09 2010 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
I'm not sure how I feel about it. The ability to switch combo points is.. interesting, but it seems like it'd be simpler to just go ahead and have the combo points built on the rogue.

The other two abilities really seem PvP oriented.
#3 Apr 09 2010 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
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Combat insight is simply amazing, but yeah, surprisingly pvp orientated. Smoke bomb will have unlimited uses in pve too though, from forcing casters into melee range to avoiding any number of boss mechanics (collapse on the smoke bomb guys).

I imagine you'll see a lot of rogue soloing videos, combat insight up permanently + recuperate and whatever cataclysm brings in terms of survivabilty weapon enchants. A return to rogue tanking?



Edited, Apr 9th 2010 5:31am by ArtemisEnteri
#4 Apr 09 2010 at 5:54 AM Rating: Excellent
I like the idea of the weapon specialization going away. I've gotten some upgrades (like a mace MH), but didn't want to use them because I either didn't have a mace OH, or the fact that I'd have to respec into the Maces specialization (or split up points between specializations due to having one type of weapon and another type).
#5 Apr 09 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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Smoke Bomb is probably the most unique ability announced in any of the previews though, so that's cool.

One thing that makes me nervous is that they say poisons will be a much larger percent of damage, and yet it's the mastery bonus. It's going to REALLY suck if it only boosts something that does 10% of your overall damage.
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#6 Apr 09 2010 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Those notes have brought me in doubt completely about what character I'm going to PvP with in Cata. Sure, my priest will PvE. But the Death Knight changes look pretty interesting and I have a feeling they'd be a decent class to play in Cata. Rogue was loads of fun and with more survivability and less globaling they should be loads of fun again as well - and I can hopefully go subt again and get shadowstep. And I haven't even heard the mage changes yet.

Oh yeah, and I wanted to roll a Goblin at some point too >.>
#7 Apr 09 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Default
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But the Death Knight changes look pretty interesting and I have a feeling they'd be a decent class to play in Cata.


You're like the only person I've seen who is happy about them...

@Smoke Bomb, I kinda want to level a Rogue just to get this ability so I can make a macro that screams "Peruvian Darkness Powder!" Every time I use it.

And yes, I am a dork.
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IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#8 Apr 10 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
I've been waiting for the Redirect spell for over 2 years now . HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!1
#9 Apr 11 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Good
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Hoping the changes make Sub viable as I like the idea of the spec.

I like the recent-ish Vanish comments from GC and completely understand the client vs server interplay and the desire of some to have it work as a spell dodge and how that can't happen.

I really like the use dead CPs on SnD change.

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#10 Apr 12 2010 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
It seems to me what they need to do with vanish is give it a half second 'damage or abilities won't break your stealth', not just full immmunity.

As for the rogue changes, what I really hope actually is they work on re-introducing some of our existing abilities! We have a bunch of attacks that aren't really used. How many people talent riposte? Do people use backstab? It would be neat to see some of those things re-imagined to add some sort of utility to them so they're useful. And yes, of course the whole sub tree would be nice to have back. I wants me some shadowstep!


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#11 Apr 14 2010 at 4:59 AM Rating: Default
Unfortunately i have to say that i am strongly disappointed. Blizz is still trying to create a "Stealhted Warrior" from Rogue. They are giving rogue more survivability and defensive buffs and nerfing stunlocks and deadlyness of the rogue. I prefer higher burst and buffed stunlock instead of defensive abilities (like Self HoT or Smoke Bomb - BTW Smoke Bomb is not so imba for PvP cuz Any melee can attack you or any class can AoE or Fear you if he is also in Smoke Bomb.) Blizz is removing the diffrences between classes. With Cata all classes can heal themselves.

Redirect is smt that i'm trying to explain since the beginning of WoW: CP must be kept on ROGUE not on Taget cuz we use our Energy to create CP(except premeditation) and we shouldn't lose it when we change our target and Redirect is everything except useful, what a waste...

I'm sure that one day we read a blue post like that: "We removed stealth ability from rogue. Instead of that rogues can wear plate armors."

I hope Blizz makes whole class specs and balances like in Classic (esp. 2006 Summer)
#12 Apr 14 2010 at 5:09 AM Rating: Default
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My thoughts on the Rogue abilities.

Redirect: Worthless, this is something any good rogue could account for and plan ahead so as not to waste combo point, unless you suck. Than this could be useful.

Combat Readiness: Something ONLY usable in PvP. Wow...way to **** over the people who don't like PvP Blizz.

Smoke Bomb: Incredibly situational most likely used on one or two encounters and ignored for the rest of all time.

Blizz ****** us over, especially since they've said they want rogues to require more skill and not be 3 button wonders. Well, how does this fix that problem?

Mages got Heroism, Hunters got a new spam shot, Druids got C4, the list goes on.

I'm am both underwhelmed and angry about this. Blizzard ****** us over.
#13 Apr 14 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Moo, seriously, what are you on?

Quote:
Redirect: Worthless, this is something any good rogue could account for and plan ahead so as not to waste combo point, unless you suck. Than this could be useful.

Yeah, any rogue can plan ahead for it and ruin his rotation and DPS. It just gives you an easier time whenever there's adds in play. If you're so pro you never waste any combo points, good for you, but I reckon you're one out of two rogues in the entire game with that skill.

Quote:
Combat Readiness: Something ONLY usable in PvP. Wow...way to @#%^ over the people who don't like PvP Blizz.

Smoke Bomb: Incredibly situational most likely used on one or two encounters and ignored for the rest of all time.

Evasion, something ONLY usable in PvP. way to **** over the people who don't like PvP.
Expose Armor, something ONLY...
Dismantle, something ONLY...
Shiv, something ONLY...
Gouge, something ONLY...

I could continue with other classes if I wanted to;

Fear ward, something ONLY...
Mana burn, something ONLY...
Psychic Scream/Fear, something ONLY...
Curse of Tongues, something ONLY...

Really, I can imagine if you find the additions underwhelming for PvE, but "you never use it outside of PvP so it sucks" is a horrible argument. Besides, if you're not going to use the abilities, you can just continue playing your rogue like you currently do with a few rotation revamps? "Blizz ****** us over" is kind of an overkill thing to say. At worst they didn't give you any new interesting abilities.
#14 Apr 14 2010 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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I may have gone overboard you're right.

However, can you deny that compared to other classes new abilities what we got is no where near as good?

EDIT: I agree with your post actually, now that I think about it and look at it differently you have a very good point, and my argument was fail.

I still think Blizz ****** us over not by giving us bad abilities per se, but by giving other classes abilities that are so much better.

Edited, Apr 14th 2010 12:47pm by GodOfMoo
#15 Apr 14 2010 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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Aye, that much I can agree with. If you don't PvP the changes are rather... 'boring. It seems similarly bad as the DK preview though, which is PvE-wise also rather boring.
#16 Apr 14 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
I somewhat agree with that original ranting post that Moo had.

The new abilities are a huge disappointment for the most part.

1 minute cool down om the CP swapping is a bit much. Should be maximum 30 seconds. ( even if they made it cost 15-20 energy )

Being as squishy as a rogue is, I don't find myself running into a situation where I'll chopped down by multiple mobs at one time. Rogues are a bit smarter than that. ( atleast I think so ) Our abilities should help us avoid situations like that. 6 seconds of a bit of damage mitigation on a 2 minute cool down is just nasty.

Smoke bomb..... that is just for fun.
Hopefully some of the new dungeons and raids will be created so that this will be useful.


The new abilities that we are getting as very underpowered for us being a DPS class and especially compared to what the other classes are getting. The new abilities are going to be completely situational.

How about an AOE poison throwing ability similar to the rogues in ToC 5 10 and 25 man have?
How about a new poison that we apply to our weps that spread to other mobs that are close to it?
How about a small buff when we kill multiple mobs in succession? Like we were on a killing spree. ( not our current ability )

Oh well..... if we got stuff like that, other classes will be complaining that we got OPed.
#17 Apr 15 2010 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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It would seem to me that most of the changes are geared towards the new BG system. With the integration of Wintergrasp into honor whoredom... yes, that's ***** and boredom together... most people have forsaken the BG's and maybe Blizz regrets that? Just a thought.

I've found that with most updates, good and bad alike, our class continues to adapt and be enjoyable and playable. Our days of being OP are perhaps over, or maybe they never were, depending on who you talk to.

Back to the BG point though, it seems that Blizzard has a history of making a change which causes us to cut something "they" thought vital (Rupture much?) completely out, then they come back with a new update to try to undo the first update and/or make it more "viable" or "skillful".

In the end, I could truly care less what the updates are because I (like most of you here) will still probably top the damage meters in some form or another.

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