Hi all,
I am currently gearing up in heroics as dualspec Prot/Holy and am enjoying both specs. When I get to the point of wanting to raid, I really need to be able to DPS when necessary. Given that I don't really want to give up the tanking & healing, how effective is DPSing as prot going to be? Is it remotely feasible. I don't want to top charts at all, but only managing the same DPS as the tanks isn't really gonna cut it.
Looking at this spec : http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdxf0t0M:p0kmzc
Obviously still equipping a 1-hander and shield.
1) Am I correct in thinking that Seal of Command will beat Seal of Vengeance?
2) Would a standard Prot rotation (without Holy Shield) throwing in Exorcism etc when useful
3) Mainly ret type stats, particularly Strength but picking up any Block Value (where possible without losing too many other stats)
4) Having the permanent Divine Plea should help, along with Judgement of Wisdom, but not getting the mana back through heals may be an issue.
Is there anything I am missing? Or am I wasting my time?
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I do this when I'm bored, and it's how I PvP. It can be pretty fun, in the right places.
Command is only better than Vengeance for short-lived mobs and AoE. Vengeance is better for ret at 15-20 seconds, but you'd have a faster 1H, and HotR also puts up stacks.
Generally, I do 5-6k DPS on heroics trash. I've done 11k on ICC trash. But then on bosses it's down to 3k.
I'd recommend the HotR glyph instead of the taunt one. Lots of packs with more than 3 mobs for that extra damage.
Command is only better than Vengeance for short-lived mobs and AoE. Vengeance is better for ret at 15-20 seconds, but you'd have a faster 1H, and HotR also puts up stacks.
Generally, I do 5-6k DPS on heroics trash. I've done 11k on ICC trash. But then on bosses it's down to 3k.
I'd recommend the HotR glyph instead of the taunt one. Lots of packs with more than 3 mobs for that extra damage.
You're mostly wasting time, even in ret type gear i cap out around 5k dps(while real dps are doing 9k+) which isn't a lot more than i do while tanking single targets. It can be useful when 1st learning fights as your survivability is crazy good with prot spec obviously but as many icc bosses have enrage timers or soft enrages you're going to be less than sub optimal without decent ret gear/spec.
As to the prot spec you linked, always fill out crusade 3/3 if you're putting any pts in it at all.
As to the prot spec you linked, always fill out crusade 3/3 if you're putting any pts in it at all.
Yeah, from what you guys say, i can drop the command point and put it back in crusade.
You are right that 3k is not much. Having said that, even though my feral druid does 8-10k on several fights, we have several DPS doing 4-6k. But then I suppose I shouldn't be trying to keep up with the bads.
I'll see how I go. Worst comes to worst, I can switch to heals and one of the healers can switch to DPS - just seems a bit of mucking around that I was hoping to avoid.
You are right that 3k is not much. Having said that, even though my feral druid does 8-10k on several fights, we have several DPS doing 4-6k. But then I suppose I shouldn't be trying to keep up with the bads.
I'll see how I go. Worst comes to worst, I can switch to heals and one of the healers can switch to DPS - just seems a bit of mucking around that I was hoping to avoid.
I tried this and ran as the tank -
1. I had mana trouble - Might need a 2nd point in attunement or the glyph. (I take no damage practically)
2. I dropped down to 520 Def with no problem - I still had 34k HP with 5 man buffs.
3. It was a fun option compared to standard tanking of heroics.
4. I think getting the HoR glyph might help.
5. I kept my Raid tanking spec - if the group showed up with a 3000GS healer, I'd switch to "Safe-Mode"
I ran several instances like this. H.UK, AN and a few others. Pretty easy. Frankly if you are just running heroics for your 2 Frost - skip it. If, like me you are running them because you can't stand the wait on your DPS toon... I suggest giving it a try - it's new and interesting.
DPS ~ 2900 to 3600. Spiked at 3800 on the 2nd pull of H.UK when I pulled all the mobs before the "Circle Room"
1. I had mana trouble - Might need a 2nd point in attunement or the glyph. (I take no damage practically)
2. I dropped down to 520 Def with no problem - I still had 34k HP with 5 man buffs.
3. It was a fun option compared to standard tanking of heroics.
4. I think getting the HoR glyph might help.
5. I kept my Raid tanking spec - if the group showed up with a 3000GS healer, I'd switch to "Safe-Mode"
I ran several instances like this. H.UK, AN and a few others. Pretty easy. Frankly if you are just running heroics for your 2 Frost - skip it. If, like me you are running them because you can't stand the wait on your DPS toon... I suggest giving it a try - it's new and interesting.
DPS ~ 2900 to 3600. Spiked at 3800 on the 2nd pull of H.UK when I pulled all the mobs before the "Circle Room"
This would only be for raiding when I wasn't needed to tank (or heal). I'm dual spec Prot/Holy at the moment which means insta-pop heroics all day every day. The only time having a tank/heal spec is in a raid where only one tank is needed and we already have the healers we need. In that situation, I can either do as much DPS as possible in my tank spec, or switch to healing and have one of the other healers switch to a DPS spec.
As far as the mana issues go, glyphs are pretty cheap so I could always carry as stack of the consecrate & shield of righteousness glyphs which would reduce my mana consumption if that is an issue. It wouldn't be too often that this would be an issue, so the cost of the extra glyphs wouldn't be a massive issue (as long as I remember to switch them back to my tanking glyphs when I go back to tanking).
As far as the mana issues go, glyphs are pretty cheap so I could always carry as stack of the consecrate & shield of righteousness glyphs which would reduce my mana consumption if that is an issue. It wouldn't be too often that this would be an issue, so the cost of the extra glyphs wouldn't be a massive issue (as long as I remember to switch them back to my tanking glyphs when I go back to tanking).
Without doing a lot of analysis on my DPS stats -
Total Damage Done was roughly equal for HoR and Consecrate. (This is whithout the HoR Glyph and in a relatively Decent AOE Dungeons.) SoR was in a relatively distant 3rd. I think that putting the HoR Glyph on would dramatically increase it's damage. Also - I put on the Attunement Glyph on (I know... L2P) but with 1 point in Attune and the Glyph - I was just fine.
I think I'm going to go with the HoR Glyph (when I find it - none at AH), Attunement, and Probably Consecrate. I'll keep a stack of the Wrath and maybe SoR around, but I honestly don't think they are that important to me...
Also - As most tanks are now using Ick's Thumb or the Frost Trinket (Which is the exact same is Ick's except it trades like 120 Dodge for 210 STA) --- While those are tanking trinkets - They actually add very little value in a heroic or Trash run. The Frost Trinket actually adds nothing in a heroic run because you'll never use it and the Stamina is the more passive of the two abilities (aka - Dodge at least mitigates damage. You already have 35-40k HP - so that extra 200 Stamina is just not needed) These can easily be replaced by a DPS Trinket. The same with most Neck pieces and Shield enchants.
I need to find a better Weapon enchant though... Currently (Because I'm just messing around) I put the T. Wep Chain on it.
Overall - it's kind of fund being 2nd or 3rd on the DPS meter in a heroic run....
Total Damage Done was roughly equal for HoR and Consecrate. (This is whithout the HoR Glyph and in a relatively Decent AOE Dungeons.) SoR was in a relatively distant 3rd. I think that putting the HoR Glyph on would dramatically increase it's damage. Also - I put on the Attunement Glyph on (I know... L2P) but with 1 point in Attune and the Glyph - I was just fine.
I think I'm going to go with the HoR Glyph (when I find it - none at AH), Attunement, and Probably Consecrate. I'll keep a stack of the Wrath and maybe SoR around, but I honestly don't think they are that important to me...
Also - As most tanks are now using Ick's Thumb or the Frost Trinket (Which is the exact same is Ick's except it trades like 120 Dodge for 210 STA) --- While those are tanking trinkets - They actually add very little value in a heroic or Trash run. The Frost Trinket actually adds nothing in a heroic run because you'll never use it and the Stamina is the more passive of the two abilities (aka - Dodge at least mitigates damage. You already have 35-40k HP - so that extra 200 Stamina is just not needed) These can easily be replaced by a DPS Trinket. The same with most Neck pieces and Shield enchants.
I need to find a better Weapon enchant though... Currently (Because I'm just messing around) I put the T. Wep Chain on it.
Overall - it's kind of fund being 2nd or 3rd on the DPS meter in a heroic run....
If you really want to max your prot dps for single targets use judgement, avenger's shield and seal of veng glyphs. Only use consecrate when you have wings up or more than 50% mana. Some fights have enough raid damage that you can keep cons down the whole fight, but in general you'll have to pick and choose when to use it.
You want to try and hit cap and soft exp cap to max seal damage and use dps trinkets with str, hit or crit. Stay away from armpen. Also use prot tier gear that has damage bonuses(like the 2pc t9 or 2pc t10 - or both at the same time). Rest of the gear can be a mix of ret and prot, whatever has the most str/hit/crit on it. Make sure and use a dps libram as well, the +200str one is probably best.
Also a nice slow 1hander(2.6spd) with dps stats is nice as well, with say, a berserking enchant on it. I'll try and log out in my 5man/prot dps set for the next couple days if you want to check my armory. I generally pull between 5-6k dps tanking in heroics with that gear setup(using seal of command with HotR and holy wrath glyphs for more aoe fun).
Edited, Mar 25th 2010 1:16am by mahlerite
You want to try and hit cap and soft exp cap to max seal damage and use dps trinkets with str, hit or crit. Stay away from armpen. Also use prot tier gear that has damage bonuses(like the 2pc t9 or 2pc t10 - or both at the same time). Rest of the gear can be a mix of ret and prot, whatever has the most str/hit/crit on it. Make sure and use a dps libram as well, the +200str one is probably best.
Also a nice slow 1hander(2.6spd) with dps stats is nice as well, with say, a berserking enchant on it. I'll try and log out in my 5man/prot dps set for the next couple days if you want to check my armory. I generally pull between 5-6k dps tanking in heroics with that gear setup(using seal of command with HotR and holy wrath glyphs for more aoe fun).
Edited, Mar 25th 2010 1:16am by mahlerite
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