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#1 Mar 12 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Hello again bright masters of the elements and arcane!

So, alright, the switch has been made. As much as I enjoy blowing things up, blowing things up is rather hard if you're dead. I've tried frost before and currently don't like it, so Arcane it is. For PvE I've still got my awesome fireball spec (Hot Streak procs make me feel all warm inside - the irony), but I've specced into a... combination of the defensive and offensive Arcane builds Arenajunkies has posted up for PvP (yes, I'm still level 75, which means I lack Icy Veins). Now seeing as arcane information seems to be all over the place and nowhere, I've got some more questions for you lot.

1) This may sound silly, but, when do I use Arcane Power? I've noticed that arcane PvP builds skip pretty much all the mana regeneration talents there are and as a result of that I'm spending 50% of each fight being OOM. Obviously I still suck as Arcane and need to get my stuff straight (l2evocation), but I'm kind of confused on Arcane Power nevertheless - it makes me run out of mana even faster =(

2) That said... What the F do I do? I've got so much instant spells I don't even know what to begin with. Is the idea that I Slow a target and then Fireblast+Arcane Barrage him into oblivion, launching Arcane Missiles as Missile Barrage procs? Do I ever even use Arcane Blast? And if so, to what do I let it stack? And what about Presence of Mind? Without Pyroblast, I don't really feel like I've got any spells worth making instant. Currently I'm using it in conjunction with a Fireball, but is this how I'm supposed to do it?

3) Is there any way to make a macro that casts Arcane Torrent if it's off cooldown, else Mana Emerald? I've got a feeling that gem could greatly help me in improving my longevity, but I've run out of hotkeys...

4) What glyphs do I use? Currently I use Blink (because I'm a scrub and still suck at kiting) and Arcane Barrage (because I'm a scrub and still run OOM all the time), and I intend on getting Evocation at 80.

That's everything I can remember right now, so thanks in advance for any answers or experiences you can share.
#2 Mar 13 2010 at 1:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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PvP as arcane is fun, but very different from Frost. You'll never win in any sort of stand and fight situation, but your burst is insane.

Arcane Blast? YES. It was much better when the damage buff you got from AB lasted longer. I don't know that arcane is viable in arenas, but you should be able to stack the buff in battlegrounds. Any time someone isn't attacking you, just burn through that mana with AB. Better they're dead and you're eating strudel. If there's another mage around, look out for a talented counterspell when using AB. He's probably a frost mage, so just steal his frost shield and he's halfway dead.

Presence of Mind is used with polymorph. That's how you fight more than one person, or reset a fight. You should be using polymorph all the time.

What I used to do was slow any melee and run away (blink is for after the stun/root/slow they apply to you... very important, don't use it early). Instant invisibility is nice when you run out of options. It doesn't pay to try and fight melee too long, once they get to you, there's no shield or knock back to protect you, mana sheild doesn't count, and you're out of mana anyway. Annoy them with Slow and Arcane Barrage? Sure. But get help. Watch out for spell reflect on warriors. Painful.

Casters you can take on with counterspell, spellsteal and mage armor (you should be switching armor depending on who you're fighting).

Don't fight good resto druids. Just... it's not worth it. Counterspell and annoy, sure but get help to kill them. Other healers are fine.

Use Arcane Power whenever you can. You should be using your mana gem all the time. It's your first source of mana, evocation is second. You want evocation glyphed (you're on top of that, so that's good). Cooldowns in general: use them early, use them often.

The main thing is learning when to run away. I got Wrecking Ball as an arcane mage by liberal and judicious use of burst damage, running away if the target didn't die, coming back and bursting down again.

edit: I should add that I switched over to Frost for PvP.

Edited, Mar 13th 2010 1:54pm by boquaz
#3 Mar 13 2010 at 2:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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All of this is from a pvp/arena perspective since that's what you said you're using arcane for. Also, I'd recommend going frost if you're serious about pvp. While arcane has high front-loaded burst and is very mobile, arcane lacks survivability, is easy to cc or lock out, and goes oom quickly, especially if your evo is interrupted.

1) AP is the on demand burst for arcane. Use it whenever you think you have a kill opportunity. Frost has shatter combos. Arcane has AP. Normally, pvp builds skip mana regen. You don't win by outlasting your opponent as a mage. You win by killing them before you go oom. In arenas or 1v1 situations, you'll be able to grab a couple seconds to drink if you play it well. Otherwise, you're relying on evo and gems. Arcane pvp isn't ABx4, MBAM like pve. You have to be very careful not to build up too many AB stacks if you're not going for a kill, otherwise you will go oom.

2) The advantages of arcane are the mobility due to the number of instants and the high damage you can put out if you're given enough time. The disadvantage is that you have little control and survivability. You either win fast or lose. For this reason, most mages pvp as frost. Less damage but more control, better mana efficiency, more survivability, and doesn't fade away as fast in between cooldowns. How high you let AB stack is very situational. If your opponent is just standing there, you can just spam AB for the kill but that will rarely happen. Normally, you'll want to use missile barrage procs as often as they proc since they cost no mana and ignore LoS once cast. Arcane Barrage is used because it clears AB stacks and is instant, allowing you to use it on the run. You'll probably want several PoM macros, or one macro with several modifiers. PoM sheep is very useful. It allows you to reset a fight at will. It can't be interrupted. Priests cant see it coming and use SW:D. PoM Fireball is good burst while dotting up fleeing rogues and druids trying to restealth. PoM AB is better for extra damage when you have AB stacks up. It would be easier to give you pvp strats if you say what classes or comps you're having trouble against or what comp you plan on running in arena.

3) WoW macros can't check whether an ability is on cooldown or not. If you put arcane torrent in a macro, the macro will attempt to use it every time you press the button. You don't want that. Arcane torrent is use for the aoe silence. It can win you a match when cs isn't up. The mana gain is just a bonus.

4)The minor glyphs are always fire ward, frost ward, slow fall for pvp. The major glyphs for arcane are normally evo, icy veins, poly, or mana gem depending on what your focus. Evo glyph is great in bgs, duels/1v1 situations, and 2s where you're running double dps. It's less useful in 3s and 5s where you'll always have a healer and it's harder to get a full evo off. Poly glyph is good in BGs or if you're running a comp w/ a rogue, lock, or priest. IV glyph is popular for duels and bgs, especially against melee. You don't see it in arena as much as the other glyphs as you can rely on your partner(s) for peels when you're being focused. Mana gem is extra mana and is normally the 3rd glyph for arcane in arenas.
#4 Mar 13 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for all the replies! Let me respond to all that;

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Arcane Blast? YES. It was much better when the damage buff you got from AB lasted longer. I don't know that arcane is viable in arenas, but you should be able to stack the buff in battlegrounds. Any time someone isn't attacking you, just burn through that mana with AB. Better they're dead and you're eating strudel.

I lol'd at that last bit. It's true though. I guess this makes sense then - I've been using it pretty much in that way so far, but I just wasn't exactly sure whether you are supposed to try and get one or two hits of it off if you're in a pure 1on1?

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Presence of Mind is used with polymorph. That's how you fight more than one person, or reset a fight. You should be using polymorph all the time.
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Watch out for spell reflect on warriors. Painful.

These two things reminded me, actually. Can polymorph be spell reflected? Since in this case I will look into my PowerAuras displaying a warning when my target has Spell Reflect up. If a warrior gets me low, I can spell reflect myself into a Polymorph and effectively heal myself up while removing the warriors reflect. Seeing as I'm ranged and he's melee and I'd use this trick when I'm close to dying, I can imagine royally ******** over prot warriors with it. And being CCed is better than dying.

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The main thing is learning when to run away. I got Wrecking Ball as an arcane mage by liberal and judicious use of burst damage, running away if the target didn't die, coming back and bursting down again.

Sounds like I'm playing my rogue. I like that style, looks like I'm in for something.

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All of this is from a pvp/arena perspective since that's what you said you're using arcane for. Also, I'd recommend going frost if you're serious about pvp. While arcane has high front-loaded burst and is very mobile, arcane lacks survivability, is easy to cc or lock out, and goes oom quickly, especially if your evo is interrupted.

Thanks for the heads up, but no, I'm not that serious. By the time I'd have gathered up the gear for serious PvP and arenaing Cataclysm will be out. It's more of a BG fun-spec at the moment. On that note; I've come from a PvP fire spec so survivability seems actually rather high to me already, now that I'm arcane.

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It would be easier to give you pvp strats if you say what classes or comps you're having trouble against or what comp you plan on running in arena.

Well, the thing is more that I've never played Arcane before and decided to go into it at a whim yesterday. Which lead to a very confused me running around AB trying to figure out what to do. That said - strangely enough, I seem to have very little problems with rogues at the moment, probably because all rogues I've met so far were horrible. I managed to solo a retadin (go me!) and when thinking about it, I think the only class I specifically had problems with were other mages. There was one particularly annoying frost mage in that BG that was killing me before I even had a chance to spellsteal all his buffs. I guess this is where PoM-Poly comes in action?

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3) WoW macros can't check whether an ability is on cooldown or not. If you put arcane torrent in a macro, the macro will attempt to use it every time you press the button. You don't want that. Arcane torrent is use for the aoe silence. It can win you a match when cs isn't up. The mana gain is just a bonus.

Very well, in that case I'll have to find a way to bind the mana gem to a more reachable button.

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4)The minor glyphs are always fire ward, frost ward, slow fall for pvp. The major glyphs for arcane are normally evo, icy veins, poly, or mana gem depending on what your focus. Evo glyph is great in bgs, duels/1v1 situations, and 2s where you're running double dps. It's less useful in 3s and 5s where you'll always have a healer and it's harder to get a full evo off. Poly glyph is good in BGs or if you're running a comp w/ a rogue, lock, or priest. IV glyph is popular for duels and bgs, especially against melee. You don't see it in arena as much as the other glyphs as you can rely on your partner(s) for peels when you're being focused. Mana gem is extra mana and is normally the 3rd glyph for arcane in arenas.

That's interesting - all this time I've been trying to make a choice between the glyphs of ABar, ABla, AMis, Blink, and APower and now you tell me I shouldn't be considering any of those. Anyway, Poly seems too situational for me to use (I guess my experience sucks, but I yet have to experience the situation where I can't poly because of someones DOTs), but evo did seem like a must to me. Especially since I haven't gotten around to getting First Aid up yet. Mana Gem and IV, I'll have to look in to as I'm not sure what IV does (nor do I have IV yet). Also, you make a valid point about the minor glyphs, especially if I should be changing my armor depending on my enemy (heck, where am I going to leave THOSE hotkeys? T_T).

Thanks for the replies!
#5 Mar 13 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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These two things reminded me, actually. Can polymorph be spell reflected? Since in this case I will look into my PowerAuras displaying a warning when my target has Spell Reflect up. If a warrior gets me low, I can spell reflect myself into a Polymorph and effectively heal myself up while removing the warriors reflect. Seeing as I'm ranged and he's melee and I'd use this trick when I'm close to dying, I can imagine royally ******** over prot warriors with it. And being CCed is better than dying.


All warriors have spell reflect. You can reflect poly and heal yourself. But you'll rarely get more than a tick or two of healing. You'll need to not have any dots on you (rend, deep wounds) and the warrior must not be able to use charge, intercept, shattering throw, or trinket. Also, some warriors will burn bladestorm to prevent poly if you're at low health and they think they can get to you. Most warriors won't put spell reflect up until right before you've finished casting a spell so that you'll have no chance to cancel it in time. You'll want to set powerauras up to show spell reflect anyway so you can burn it with an ice lance. If you have AB or MBAM reflected, you're screwed against any half decent warrior.

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I think the only class I specifically had problems with were other mages. There was one particularly annoying frost mage in that BG that was killing me before I even had a chance to spellsteal all his buffs


Assuming equal pvp gear, arcane normally beats frost 1 on 1. If you really want to spellsteal all his buffs, either PoM poly or blanket CS>poly. Remember to switch to mage armor doing the fight if you aren't using it. The frost mage is going to try to force you to blink using FN or pet novas. After you blink, he'll probably use the next opportunity to DF. If blink isn't up by then, you either trinket or fall behind. You can either spellsteal ice barrier or burst through it. Keep frost ward up. Arcane has the advantage because there is no need to set up burst, forcing the frost mage to play defensively early on. Don't use mana shield unless you absolutely have to. Going oom is the same same as losing all your health. If you can't damage, your opponent for any reason, you should use your GCDs rebuffing. Most importantly, don't get locked out of arcane, especially with IB down. A full cs is more damaging to you as you're forced to rely on fireblast and scorch for your damage and you're locked out of your most important cooldowns. If you can't win quickly, the fight comes down to managing mana and being aware of cooldowns. As arcane, you only have cs and poly+IL to interrupt evo.

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That's interesting - all this time I've been trying to make a choice between the glyphs of ABar, ABla, AMis, Blink, and APower and now you tell me I shouldn't be considering any of those


You'll occasionally see blink glyph but imo the 5 yards isn't that helpful. Melee will have no problems closing if they use any cooldown and you'll be snared anyway. The other glyphs all focus on increasing damage but arcane's damage is fine. With decent gear, AB spam can kill anything in 5-10 seconds. The problem is being left alone and not being LoSed or CCed for that long. The problem is being able to stay alive and useful long enough to set up that kill opportunity. Evo and mana gem glyph seck to rectify that problem. IV glyph gets rid of any snares and cast time slowing effects (slow, mind numbing poison, imp. overpower, curse of tongues, etc.) on you when IV is used. It makes any moment when you're poised to use IV a burst opportunity and significantly simplifies kiting. LIke you said, evo glyph is almost universally taken in 2s and BGs, especially as arcane. 60% health and mana on a 2 min cooldown is amazing.

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Also, you make a valid point about the minor glyphs, especially if I should be changing my armor depending on my enemy (heck, where am I going to leave THOSE hotkeys? T_T)

You'll learn to use fire and frost ward all the time. Frost ward vs warriors (for spell reflect), dks, mages. Fire vs destro locks, ele shamans, hunters. Although, each mage has their own personal preference due to spec, comp, battlegroup, and playstyle of which armor is more useful overall, you'll switch between ice armor and mage armor depending on who you're fighting. In my experience, most arcane mages start off with frost armor though as melee can be a big problem for arcane.
#6 Mar 13 2010 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
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All warriors have spell reflect. You can reflect poly and heal yourself. But you'll rarely get more than a tick or two of healing. You'll need to not have any dots on you (rend, deep wounds) and the warrior must not be able to use charge, intercept, shattering throw, or trinket. Also, some warriors will burn bladestorm to prevent poly if you're at low health and they think they can get to you. Most warriors won't put spell reflect up until right before you've finished casting a spell so that you'll have no chance to cancel it in time.

Well yeah - I didn't actually plan on using it as a reliable regeneration method. I was just thinking along the lines of "if a warrior is bashing me then throwing a reflected poly into my own face might not be a stupid thing to do".

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You'll want to set powerauras up to show spell reflect anyway so you can burn it with an ice lance.

Ice Lance! I knew there was a function for that! Now I have to get even MORE hotkeys. And once I get my rocket boots I need an additional one again. How do you people cope with it?! =O
On another note - am I actually still supposed to use Ice Lance in conjunction with Frost Nova or am I better of foregoing the spell for damage and just throwing something arcane?

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Assuming equal pvp gear, arcane normally beats frost 1 on 1. If you really want to spellsteal all his buffs, either PoM poly or blanket CS>poly. Remember to switch to mage armor doing the fight if you aren't using it. The frost mage is going to try to force you to blink using FN or pet novas. After you blink, he'll probably use the next opportunity to DF. If blink isn't up by then, you either trinket or fall behind. You can either spellsteal ice barrier or burst through it. Keep frost ward up. Arcane has the advantage because there is no need to set up burst, forcing the frost mage to play defensively early on. Don't use mana shield unless you absolutely have to. Going oom is the same same as losing all your health. If you can't damage, your opponent for any reason, you should use your GCDs rebuffing. Most importantly, don't get locked out of arcane, especially with IB down. A full cs is more damaging to you as you're forced to rely on fireblast and scorch for your damage and you're locked out of your most important cooldowns. If you can't win quickly, the fight comes down to managing mana and being aware of cooldowns. As arcane, you only have cs and poly+IL to interrupt evo.

Thanks a bunch for the tips there. I did some more PvP today and got a little bit more comfortable with both my class and my abilities. Stupidly enough I don't have a trinket yet (I faction changed from being a Human) but funnily enough I have yet to notice the lack of trinket. In between Ice Block, Invisibility and Blink dying seems to be more of a problem than actually getting CC'd. My only problems today really were with a 5 levels lower retribution paladin (hello? I didn't even get a chance to spellsteal BoF and Slow him, he just 3-shot me through mana shield) and with the ocassional BM hunter. The last one was actively seeking me out and unloading on me with Bestial Wrath popped pretty much every fight. I found that Ice Block made short work of his I-WIN button, though. The best bit of Arcane does seem to be if you're left alone - stacking AB 'til 4, then launching an AB along with a PoM-AB literally 2-shots pretty much everything.

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IV glyph gets rid of any snares and cast time slowing effects (slow, mind numbing poison, imp. overpower, curse of tongues, etc.) on you when IV is used. It makes any moment when you're poised to use IV a burst opportunity and significantly simplifies kiting.

Very well, that does sound like an interesting glyph. And now that you've given me a queue; when kiting as Arcane, I am not really meant to use frost spells anymore, am I? Save for AOE stuff like Cone of Cold and Frost Nova, that is. Slow seems to take care of all my needs - is there any situation at all left where a Frost Bolt is preferable to a Slow?

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You'll learn to use fire and frost ward all the time. Frost ward vs warriors (for spell reflect), dks, mages. Fire vs destro locks, ele shamans, hunters.

Thanks for reminding me there. I've finally got them bound in comfortable locations and just need to remember to keep using them now.

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Although, each mage has their own personal preference due to spec, comp, battlegroup, and playstyle of which armor is more useful overall, you'll switch between ice armor and mage armor depending on who you're fighting. In my experience, most arcane mages start off with frost armor though as melee can be a big problem for arcane.

This is funny, as I actually find myself doing the opposite. This is probably because I'm solely doing BGs at the moment, but if a Slow doesn't take care of a melee (and I can't use Blink for whatever reason), then Ice Block and resetting the fight with instant Invisibility does. I rarely have two melee on me at the same time and even if I do, that's when I use Cone of Cold and Frost Nova. And Mage Armor's -50% duration seems to work on... pretty much everything important to other classes? I was wondering for a full battleground earlier why Repentance only seemed two last two seconds on me. Does this actually stack with a meta's -15% duration on say, stuns, to bring a paladins Hammer effectively down to 2 seconds?

Once again, thanks for the reply, you're giving me loads of insight into how this works.

Edit: Grammar and spelling.

Edited, Mar 14th 2010 6:51am by Mozared
#7 Mar 14 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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On another note - am I actually still supposed to use Ice Lance in conjunction with Frost Nova or am I better of foregoing the spell for damage and just throwing something arcane?


Depends on how much time you have (or think you have) to cast, and why you're using FN. If you're using FN 1 on 1, just to get time to cast then you're probably want to maximize damage, especially if they have no interrupts. If you think they're going to break FN (w/ cloak or HoF for example) or you have someone else on you, you'll want to spam ice lance while you continue to move. When you're using FN to peel off a teammate or give yourself time to cc, it depends on how much time you have left on FN when you get back to your target.

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(hello? I didn't even get a chance to spellsteal BoF and Slow him, he just 3-shot me through mana shield) and with the ocassional BM hunter

With decent gear, melee classes can do ridiculous burst damage if they're in range for a few seconds if RNG favors them. With ret pallies, if they're anywhere near melee range, you have to be moving. The good thing is they don't have many ways to close. Repentance is on a 1 min CD, HoJ is 30s fully talented. They are easily countered by trinket and blink. Also, repentance shares DRs with sheep, sap, gouge, hex, and other disorients so it doesn't always last the full duration in BGs. Although ret pallies can cleanse our snares, you'll rarely see it as we can easily run them oom. You can sheep and reset at pretty much anytime 1 on 1. You'll want to get spellsteal all of his buffs early on so that you can get HoF or wings off as soon as he applies it. Either poly and spam spellsteal in the beginning or just spellsteal while running away from him although RNG can play against you at times. If he does close on you and you have don't have blink up, a blanket CS can significantly reduce the amount of damage he can do. You can also blanket CS to prevent the pally from HoF to give you a free 4 seconds to cast. If he bubbles offensively and you can't blink away, you'll probably be forced to use either IB or invis. If he bubbles defensively, you can just run away from him. Most pallies stop chasing you with around 3 or 4 seconds left to heal up. If you don't get caught in melee range unprepared, ret pallies are a pretty easy fight.

Skilled, geared hunters on the other hand can suck 1 on 1, especially if you don't have a pillar to hump. In general, you'll want to use blink and FN to stay on top of them. You'll need to keep them snared the whole time with slow and CoC. Disengage has a 20 sec CD when glyphed. Deterrence has a 80 second cooldown glyphed IIRC. When they pop deterrence, they can't attack while it's up so you can get a few ticks of bandage or evo. Alternatively, you can attempt to kill the pet. This prevents them from using Roar of Sacrifice, Master's call, or TBW later on. Pet killing is a viable tactic in duels and arenas. Snake trap is easily countered w/ any aoe and freezing trap with trinket. I find BM hunters to be the easiest 1 on 1 as long as you don't get caught in the open w/o CDs when they pop TBW. Of course, since TBW has a 90s cd and IB has a 4 min CD, there will be times when you'll have no choice but to pillar hump. Although the plan is still the same for MM and survival hunters, they have more tools to keep you out of melee range.

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Slow seems to take care of all my needs - is there any situation at all left where a Frost Bolt is preferable to a Slow?

1 on 1 against classes that can't dispel, slow will normally be the only snare you need. Against classes that can, you'll want to cover slow with other debuffs like r1 frostbolt and CoC.

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This is funny, as I actually find myself doing the opposite. This is probably because I'm solely doing BGs at the moment, but if a Slow doesn't take care of a melee (and I can't use Blink for whatever reason), then Ice Block and resetting the fight with instant Invisibility does.

Like I said, it depends a lot on playstyle and what you feel comfortable with, especially when fighting in groups. When fighting more than one opponent as arcane, i prefer to keep slow on the ranged target and rely on poly, FN, and CoC to peel the melee off of me. Others like frost armor due to the extra armor and chance of frostbite procs.

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I was wondering for a full battleground earlier why Repentance only seemed two last two seconds on me. Does this actually stack with a meta's -15% duration on say, stuns, to bring a paladins Hammer effectively down to 2 seconds?

I don't know. Most mages tend to stick with CSD for their pvp meta. A few engineers go with the run speed meta (tireless skyflare diamond) if they put nitro boots on their boots. The run speed meta doesn't stack with Tuskarr's vitality, which is commonly chosen over icewalker for pvp. You can't use nitro boots in arena but they are amazing in BGs if used right.
#8 Mar 17 2010 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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Frost nova/slow ret, wait for freedom then PoM poly them and start casting poly again in anticipation of the trinket. If they don't have it available, spellsteal everything and refresh poly when it's about to run out and repeat til they have no buffs and no hand of freedom. Frostfire bolt (it's slow effect has dispel protection from talents) and start cranking out arcane blasts.

Try to react instantly to bubble by invising at good range, with your trinket ready in anticipation of a repentence attempt. If they sucessfully close distance they might get a dot on you or bug invis by meleeing right as it pops. You should do some practice duels with my mage on kazzak :P
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