Healing heroicsFollow

Hi there,

Our small, non-raiding guild is just starting to run heroics and I am the group's healer in tree form. So far we have completed heroic Violet Hold and we just completed heroic Utgarde Keep last night. Neither has been easy for us (we wiped twice last night and had a couple of single person deaths along the way). We have tried heroic Azjol Nerub but couldn't get past the first boss (actually it was the triple pulls before the boss, demoralizing to say the least). We tried heroic Nexus and wiped twice to the first boss (the one who whirlwinds) before we got a strat and downed him on the third try only to wipe twice on the mage boss and call it a night.

For what it's worth, I'm running around 1900-2000 healing in tree form (can get up to 2200 now that I have my badge item for the "ranged" slot). Our death knight tank has 28k-29k health and is over 535 defense. The rest of our group can differ depending on who is online at the time we start the run, but typically consists of either a) boomkin, b) rogue1, c) rogue2, d) mage, e) hunter. Most of our dps has a solid gear core of blues/purples. The hunter has a great gear set (the best in the guild).

We are seriously hurting for other buffs besides druid/mage (some folks have drums which we use and we always use stat food), and we don't have a good way to dispel debuffs (other than curses and poisons) and/or remove boss buffs.

I read while leveling up that Northrend heroics are weak sauce so I'm puzzled why we're having such a hard time of it. Is it because we aren't reading up on the strats ahead of time? Will that make a huge difference (admittedly it did on Ingvar last night in heroic UK)?

I don't know what our dps is as none of use damage meters and I have yet to find one built into WoW itself (despite all of the target dummies...am I missing something obvious?). I'm hopeful that once we do heroics more we will get our strats down and not have troubles, but I worry that some fights may be beyond us given our group makeup (especially after failing miserably in AN). Any obvious thoughts that might help us out? Thanks!

The people who are writing that heriocs are easy vastly over-gear the content. While many of the heriocs have been nerfed since the beginning of WotLK, I'm not surprised they still pose a challenge to a group who hasn't done them before. Honestly though I used to hate H AN. That instance is so short, and so painful. All those bosses in there used to suck back when I was in blues.

You logged out in feral gear, so I can't really so anything about gearing (though you should be fine in blues/purples). The only thing I'd consider is moving the 2 talent points from Natural Perfection to Improved Tranquility while you are still mainly focusing on 5-mans. That no-aggro/heal-everyone thing would likely help when things get messy, on the H AN beginning pulls, for example.

A balanced group and a complete array of buffs won't be needed for heriocs, though more buffs always helps. Reading up on strategies is always a good idea. WoWwiki or WoWhead should have some of what you are looking for (but you probably already knew that :p), as it can be hard to find good explanations of those fights. If you are wiping occasionally, having to read strategies, etc. Don't worry, it's what we all did back when we were learning the fights. It's part of learning to work together as a team too, that will probably help you more than anything else.

There's no shame in wiping on a fight none of you have ever seen before.

I'd highly recommend getting Recount. It often gets misused, but it can be a very useful tool for looking at performance. You can start by simply looking at dps to see if there's room for improvement. Then, you can look at what abilities people are using and suggest changes to rotations, etc. You can also use Recount to look at what is causing wipes. What specific boss abilities, etc. are causing problems.

To an extent, it sounds a lot like your group just needs to learn the instances. With practice you will improve. I don't think your group composition will hinder you. I have participated with all kinds of strange class mixes...I have yet to see one that prevents success.

I hope you don't find this insulting Dos, but I'm not sure if you're asking for dungeon tactics help or healing rotation help. I'm going to link this post for you, just in case it's the latter. This was in response to a request by me for help with the tree healing rotation. It was a great help for me.

Good Luck.





I refuse to mention the posters name in an effort to avoid many +1s from him.

I love doing Heroics on my DK DPS but I outgear them buy a fair margin. That being said though, even if I am overgeared for it, I still have to know the fights and react accordingly otherwise I will jeapordize the lives of the other party members either directly or indirectly (Devourer of Souls for direct, I DPS too bad and start taking hits means I need heals over the tank, which causes a whole set of problems).

So in order of priority for doing well in Heroics:

1) Know how to play and utilize the class and role you're playing, and know it well- I don't care how well geared you are, if you don't know how to play your class and what tools to use when, and how to do your job as DPS, Heals or Tank, doesn't matter if you knokw the fights or not, you won't be going very far unless you have someone in the party that can cover your ***.

2) Know the instance and fights- you can undergear the content and still do very well if you know exactly what to do when and have the competency to pull it off.

3) Be flexible- sometimes **** hits the fan and you need to re-evaluate the situation and react accordingly, ie Moonkin DPS switching to Heals when things get nasty, or Heals switching to DPS for a second to apply some DoT's and debuffs while the tank has his cooldowns up, or Feral DPS switching to Tank to pull that extra hard hitting add off the healer, etc. This goes hand in hand with number 1.

4) Gear- It's what this game is all about (well...not ENTIRELY but you get the point), but there's more to it then getting PH4T L3W2 (phat lootz for all those who can't read that) You have to HOW to gear, which stats mean the most to YOU, what upgrade you need when, but most of all, utilizing your stats to the best of your ability and knowing when your gear and ability aren't up for the task at hand (this can only really be accomplished by trying it at least 1-2 times and failing...badly) High spell power means you should be healing for more, using less mana if you're using the correct rotation. Don't spam unecessary spells when you're in a pinch, know what spells you need to cast when and be confident in what your doing and be honest with yourself. If you're having to spam Regrowth and Healing Touch on trash pulls, or even on a boss thats only hitting the tank, you are not ready for that content. You should really only be relying on your HoT's with Regrowth and Healing Touch being used sparingly on spike damage or a BAD pull, not routinely. Reason being, your spell power isn't high enough yet for your HoT's to cover the damage that's incoming, which as a healing druid, should be the case.

5) Enchants/Gems/Glyphs-Goes right along with gear really but I seperated it because it IS something else. Glyphs are based mostly on which one is best but also for how you play your class. Druids are one of the few classes I know of that actually have a few options for glyphs rather than cookie cutter ones. Know how you play (which you should, but it's not as intuitive at some might think) and choose your glyphs accordingly. Enchants are based entirely on what is the best one for you, there a very few exceptions, and in those exceptions there are usually only 2 options anyway (use this chant til at this stat number then switch to this other chant, type thing) Read up on them and do it, each individual one may not be that impressive, but they add up...fast. Gems on the other hand are based entirely on what you as a character need RIGHT NOW. Gem up with what stat you need the most and as you start getting better gear your gems will change to reflect what stats you need more at that point in time, too many examples to list so just read up on it.

Sorry for the long post, and judging by your signature you already know most of this, but given that you are posting about a pretty elementary problem (Heroics aren't easy, but everyone knows you don't go into a test without studying for it first unless you want to fail or learn it the hard way) I thought I'd go over the priorities I set for myself and the parties I'm in. All of this however, can be thrown out the window if you don't care about how you're doing and are having a blast doing it your way, because at the end of the day, you should be having fun.

As a tree healer that have a mix of emblems gear + 1 T8 piece and 2 T7 piece, what I tend to do when the tank is not overgeared is this;

1 - Keep regrowth and rejuv on the tank all the time. I mean, really all the time.

2 - Cast WG everytime its off CD. It helps to alleviate aoe damage on deeps and add some healing to the tank.

3 - If the tank is still lacking, cast LB when OoC proc and let it bloom.

4 - If the tank is getting his **** handed to him, spam nourish and forget about deeps.

5 - You should try and always focus on you and the tank. When the deeps get damaged, you have to always remember you are spending time and mana on them and not on your tank and yourself. You can go by without a deeps, but a group cant complete almost anything without a tank and healer.

6 - Know the fights. Since I`ve done all the heroics more than 3142343423 times, I know all the bosses from the top of my mind, but if your entire group dont, stop, go read and understand the fight and try it once to see it. The second time will be easier.

7 - Keybind your spells. It makes your job 32409234 times easier. Really does.

8 - Make macros. There are some that can alleviate your job and help your hps (wich means more healing done in less time, wich is critical).

9 - Make focus and focus target macros for self heal. That way you dont need to target yourself.

10 - Use decursive for decurse and abolish poison. It adds 5 little squares in your screen and if you click on one of them, it will try to decurse. Right click and will cast abolish poison.

11 - When in doubt, Shadownmeld.

12 - Profit.

=]


edit. did not saw your reply and it seens you didnt want this type of answer. oh, well, what is done is done. good luck anyway =D

Edited, Jan 29th 2010 2:09pm by Brisin

Sorry for not responding to this thread earlier, but I sort of forgot about it, I'm afraid. And then I saw someone rated down my first post for apparently asking relevant questions and figured I'd get nothing out of pursuing it any further.

My post wasn't demeaning and I'm sorry if it came off as such. To emphasize on something I've already written, I was merely baffled by your post. It's sort of like seeing an elephant fly and trying to figure out how. Your gear, from your post, seems more than adequate for the job. Your tank, again from your post, seems more than geared for the encounters. With a capable healer and a capable tank, you really don't need a lot to do a successful heroic run, hence my dumbfounded reply.

This is why I asked for some vital information, to locate and isolate what might be wrong. It was not meant as an elitist /facepalm equivalent, merely an attempt to help out.

People have already given you solid advice, so I won't add to the pile, but to answer one of your later questions: "can our group (whose members are briefly mentioned in the OP) expect to meet success in the heroic instances?"

Yes. You only need experience from the looks of it. A great way to get experience, without the bitter taste of failure from corpse runs (god knows, I've done my share), you can "cheat" and look up the boss fights on Wowwiki.com and let your team members know in a brief summary what to expect and how to adapt to it. That's how my guild raids encounters we haven't tried yet. I, being the main tank, look up the boss fights on the Internet and do a quick summary for the rest of the raid, highlighting the phases of the boss (if there are any) and what NOT to do.

Don't be afraid you won't be able to do heroics. You will. Your group seems better geared and more dedicated to it than anyone I've ever run a heroic instance with. Just don't give up and soon you'll be racing through those places like crazy.

Edit: How did my N-key switch places with the T-key?

Edited, Jan 31st 2010 1:15pm by Mazra

If you successfully ran Oculus heroic then I wouldn't worry about the other heroics. That second-last boss (Uros, Urom, whatever his name is) is one tough *******. It's almost a guaranteed wipe there when I PUG Oculus heroic. Once I had to solo the guy from 40% to dead because everyone else didn't hide behind the pillars.

Violet Hold is one of my least favorite heroics as well. There's one boss in there who can cause a wipe if people aren't aware of the strategy. Wiping in Violet Hold sucks since you have to start all over again, but with zero loot.

Heroic Nexus is great because the last boss in there is a sort of "gearcheck" for your group. Once she reaches low health, she'll enrage, dealing more damage than what's healthy. If people aren't geared for it, she'll decorate the instance with their entrails. The most common reason for a wipe in Nexus is due to this (at least from what I've seen). Make sure you are in constant movement as she applies a debuff to people standing still. The debuff stacks and will be impossible to heal through if everyone has a high stack (even just one or two will cause much stress on the healer).

Another tricky boss in there is Anomalous, or whatever his name is. The big elemental you fight on the platform (not the stone giant). He was nerfed in the latest patch to only spawn one Chaotic Rift. It's a good fight for a group of people learning coordination as he becomes immune when he spawns a Rift. If people don't switch target to the Rift, he'll be very hard to take down.

Another good starting heroic is Gundrak, again because the instance presents a great deal of challenges and overcoming challenges is the best way to improve overall performance. The first boss (snake) will wrap people up if not killed fast enough, meaning your DPS will have to focus on killing the snake wrap to free the player (assuming you can't 4-man him). He will also spawn snakes throughout the fight that must be controlled or they'll chew the healer up. The healer can alleviate some of the pressure by standing on the other side of the boss, so the snakes have to pass the tank before getting to him. Finally, he'll throw out an AOE damaging attack which also puts a poison on everyone it hits. The healer will have to do some AOE healing there, if people don't run away from it.

Next boss is a golem/elemental fight. The golem itself isn't too bad, though it does hit the tank with Mortal Strike, reducing healing taken. At around half health, he'll spawn an elemental. The elemental is nasty as it throws goo at people and create purple spots on the floor. Do not stand in the purple goo. The elemental will appear a couple of times before you get the boss down. Again, the most important part here is to not stand on the purple spots. They hurt. It should also be noted that every time the fight changes from the golem to the elemental, aggro is reset, so the tank should keep a taunt ready.

Third boss is a pretty straightforward tank & spank fight. He will transform into a mammoth at some point (unless you successfully interrupt him each time he casts it - his cast time decreases with his health - in which case you'll get an achievement). Still a pretty basic fight from what I remember.

Fourth boss is an optional murloc (sp?) boss. He becomes available once you kill the mammoth boss (Moorabi) and is accessed via a secret tunnel at Moorabi's place. He's tricky because he randomly attacks people, regardless of aggro. He also sprays people with smelly goo. Killing the final boss in Gundrak with this debuff on will give you an achievement as well.

Fifth and final boss is Gal'darah. Everyone must be up on the platform once you engage him as he will, like Anub'arak, lock people in. He does a whirlwind attack which does damage and applies a stacking debuff to everyone it hits, dealing some pretty heavy DoT. Melee, except for the tank, should move out of the whirlwind. He'll also send ghost rhinos after casters. They knock you back and deal more damage the further away from Gal'darah you are. Finally, he will eventually change into a rhino himself, using an impale attack on a random member of the group. The impale does massive damage and if the healer is impaled, he cannot cast anything for the duration.

It's one of my favorite heroics because once you have it down, it's also one of the fastest out there. It does require a bit of adapting for each boss fight, but a few runs should be all you need.

It's about 20-25 minutes if you're efficient. It's a lot of stress on the healer though as you can't drink outside specific intervals (which are few) and have to be very smart about mana management.

I'm going to suggest we give heroic CoS a try and see how we do (not trying to beat any timers the first pass or three). Once we have done it successfully a few times then we can step it up a notch and start working on some achievements. I would love to get a drake mount (although I doubt I would use it...instant cast flight form is just too addictive!). The achievement boss only drops 1 drake per run, though, right? So you would have to run it 5 times for everyone to get a drake?

LFD system Random daily Heroic is the best invention ever (for WoW anyway) lots of gear, lots of gold, lots of dungeon running experience, lots of emblems, lots of fun except for Oculus, that place just blows imo, nice end boss loot though I suppose.

Anyway, just keep reading wowwiki.com for dungeon/ boss strats, keep queing up and testing it out and have fun doing it. If you have the time you can get 50+ emblems in a couple hours which makes it a fast way to gear up with good gear.

Won't know how good or bad you will do until you try it, but you can base your potential performance based on your reg dungeon experience. You feel comfortable healing all of the regular dungeons? if you do, then you will probably be set for Heroics, if you still feel that healing regular dungeons is a challenge, Heroics will obviously be tougher.

Good luck have fun!