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Die's findings and DK tanking guideFollow

#1 Jan 27 2010 at 7:23 PM Rating: Default
Common Acronyms:
BS = Blood Strike
PS = Plague Strike
IT = Icy Touch
OB = Obliterate
DS = Death Strike
RS = Rune Strike
BB = Blood Boil
DnD = Death and Decay
DC = Death Coil
BP = Blood Plague
FF = Frost Fever
Pest = Pestilence
IBF = Icebound Fortitude
AMS = Anti-Magic Shell
AoD = Army of the Dead
RP = Runic Power
ERW = Empower Rune Weapon

HS = Heart Strike
SoB = Scent of Blood
Vot3W = Veteran of the 3rd War
MoM = Might of Mograine
WoN = Will of the Necropolis
B-G = Blood-gorged

HB = Howling Blast
FS = Frost Strike
HC = Hungering Cold
NoCS = Nerves of Cold Steel
CotG = Chill of the Grave
KM = Killing Machine
BoN = Blood of the North
ToT = Threat of Thassarian
GoG = Gift of Gorefiend

So first of I would like to start off with a disclaimer, because it seems most good guides have one?

Disclaimer:
There is no "Right Way" to DK tank. By following this guide there is no guarantee that you will be the most uber 1337 tank out there, but you will be competent. By no means is this the only way to run your death knight tank, this is simply what I found to work well and why. Feel free to ask questions.

Introduction
With that said there is definitely a wrong way to tank as a death knight. Before you decide a spec tanking is a game of balancing your stats. This guide is going to focus on blood and frost DK tanking because that is what I have tried and tested and I find it to be the most interesting in my opinion. The guide will also address the main goals of a tank. Both goals are equally important.
Goal #1: Survive
Goal #2: Protect the Raid

Stats
Death Knights needs the same stats as everyone else in the sense of...
- 540 Defense
- 26 expertise (Soft Cap for Dodge), 56 expertise (hard cap for parry)
- 264 Hit Rating (8%0 [27% if you're dual wielding]

As a tank every stat except spirit and intellect is effective. Strength, stamina, and armor are going to be some of the most appealing stats. Strength is an interesting stat for us. Every one strength gives us two attack power. Also 25% of strength is also counted towards parry rating. Many people will argue from a tank's perspective that the only effective stat to stack in any gem slot is stamina. This is referred to as soak tanking. From a tanking perspective soak tank is effective. However, You have go in depth to the first goal to see it completely though.

Stamina vs. Avoidance vs. Mitigation
Survival can be broken down into mitigating damage, avoiding damage, and enduring damage. Avoidance in this guide is classified as dodge, parry, and chance to be missed. Soaking deals with strictly enduring damage. From a tanking perspective increasing your effective hit points covers all of survivability.

Stamina stacking is an interesting subject. If you notice I keep saying, "From a tanking perspective..." that is because while soaking gives you the best return per itemization point it also puts more stress on the healer. Blizzard fixed the inconsistent healing stream by reducing avoidance, reducing the damage bosses do, and increases bosses' attack speed.

Mitigation is the be-all-end of tanking areas such as resistances and armor. It too has its draw backs, the amount of mitigation you have you stack to get a return out of it would gimp the other areas of you stats so much that it wouldn't be worth it overall. Although armor will never get touched by diminishing returns, it may give you a reduced % of reduction but X amount of armor always increases your time you survive by X amount of seconds. Armor.

Finally avoidance... Death Knights are avoidance tanks. The only problem with stacking pure avoidance is there is a chance to take damage. Which means it not 100% reliable. Death knights can easily achieve upwards of 60% avoidance (Dodge, Parry, Miss.) Even though ICC reduces your avoidance by 20% it does not mean to completely ignore it.

So the winner of stamina vs. avoidance vs. mitigation is no one. Its a tie, go figure?

Dual Wielding Vs. Two Hander
This is an area that commonly confuses death knights. The a great benefit that dual wielding gives is variety, the ability to put two different runeforges on your weapons, such as 2% parry and cinder glacier, or fallen crusader and 2% parry (enchants I commonly used). However, with the introduction of nerubian carapace runeforge, that is the tanking enchant. Which makes it equal with stoneskin gargoyle. The only problem that comes with dual wielding is you have to dump 6 talent points to make dual wielding equal to using a two handed weapon.

The other minor benefit dual wielding gives is it cranks your killing machine procs up from 5 per minute to 10 per minute. Killing Machine gets the best effect from being used on howling blast. You can only howling blast a target 7 times a minute. Refer to the forst section for more information

Nerves of Cold Steel takes 3 talent points. Threat of Thassarian takes 3 points. Niether of these talents increase anything, they just bring dual wielding up to par with using a two handed weapon. Why spend six talent points to make dual wielding equal to using a two handed weapon when you can just use a two handed weapon and save the six talent points? Two hander is what I would suggest here. If you go blood, two handed is your only choice

Idiggory wrote:
I'd say 2-hand, though not by enough that it would really matter if you wanted to DW.

The problem is that you basically end up with 2 deficits, but can only really fix one of them. These are incoming damage and outgoing damage (and thus threat).

Parry Hasting leads to 1-3% more damage taken, depending on the fight. But on some fights, it results in 0% more, as some bosses have this disabled. But it only affects Auto-Attacks. So, for example, it will lead to much more damage taken when fighting Garfrost, who has strong AAs, than against the Devourer of Souls, who does a lot of his damage through spells/abilities.

So, to combat this, you want to have defensive stats on your weapons. Using the best two available atm, you end up with less than 2% more avoidance than 2-hand. You'll have slightly more Stamina though.

But then we get to another problem. There are no slow tanking weapons. The slowest is 1.7 (for up-to-date weapons). Your strikes gain the most from slower weapons (literally 400-500 damage less without raid buffs). That's a LOT of lost threat on Rune Strike and Oblit. DW manages to make some of this up with higher Auto-Attack damage, when properly geared, but it doesn't get the threat modifier of RS and still produces less DpS.

You also need a LOT more hit for DW. If you don't make up for it, then you begin to lose your higher AA damage. So then you just end up putting out lower threat all around, which is bad.

But, if you go for DpS weapons to make up for the threat, then you will end up with *less* avoidance than a 2-handed tank (due to 25% Str -> Parry), on top of the increased damage from Parry Hasting.

Now add in the fact that the DW spec loses points making itself viable. 2-hand gets to invest in threat talents, and doesn't need to take ToT or DWS. And 2 points in 2-handed Spec is a better DpS boost than 3 in NoCS.

But I want to stress that this is NOT a big deal if you aren't doing hard modes. The overall difference is pretty low. 2-hand is pretty firmly on top, but not by much.


Parry hasting is when an attack gets parried, the one that parried the attack get 40% increased attack speed to their next attack.

Edited, Jan 28th 2010 12:39am by potsoriginal

Edited, Jan 28th 2010 12:40am by potsoriginal
#2REDACTED, Posted: Jan 27 2010 at 7:23 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) As a death knight tank, every point and glyph matters. Each talent point you spend greatly influences how you play your character more than any other class. Death Knights are some of the most highly customizable tanks in the game. So create a spec that fits your liking.
#3 Jan 27 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Default
reserving this spot
#4 Jan 27 2010 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Well,

This definitely needs work if its to be turned into a proper DK tanking sticky, though I'll admit I wouldn't mind one: Theo's DPS guide is outdated, Dilbrt's Macro message is basically "Don't be an idiot" which isn't of much help if you play a DK and aren't an idiot, and Tyrandor's website-sticky just has a ******** of random links (some of which don't even work anymore) which could just as well be included in a proper FAQ as reference material. If you can be ***** and really plan on turning this into a good source of information, I suggest you check out some other class FAQs and copy a bit of their lay-out; this one needs cookie cutter talent builds, some information on basic rotations and a part on the main differences between the three specs. Also, I'm not entirely sure if your message on dual-wield tanking is right - I can't say I've heard much good about it but seeing as plenty of people seem to do it (and do a decent job at it) I can't imagine it's just completely sub-par to anything else.

A good start though, and you've already encompassed the most critical points about gearing.
#5 Jan 27 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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You need 26 Expertise to eliminate Dodge.

And you put a LOT of opinion in here that is based on no actual data. Some is loosely true, but you over emphasize it. And your Avoidance v. Mitigation v. Endurance section is... well... sorely lacking. And that is an understatement.

Plus, DKs aren't really avoidance tanks. We rely on a lot of passive mitigation (more than any other class) more than we do avoidance. And a Paladin/Warrior is going to be hit by "attacks" as far as the hit table is concerned than a DK tank is.

No offense, but I don't think this is even remotely good enough to be considered for a sticky. And I've never really seen any posts from you that make me think you're trustworthy enough to make one.

And your argument for 2-hand vs. DW is so bad that I have no hope for the rest of it.

I know this came off as strong, and I apologize, but I would never want a new tank to have this be the first thing they read. Go look at the Paladin tanking guide, or some of those over at Tank Spot, and you'll understand what these should be.
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#6 Jan 27 2010 at 9:35 PM Rating: Default
I'm not trying to sticky it, I've just given advise to four different death knight tanks on our server and I think it would be easier just to refer them to one link rather than the folder of bookmarked links about various subjects. :P

Its no where near finish, but I would appreciate the criticism and I will work to make it more non-bias. Our guild has two really bad soak tanks so I have been scarred. :P

What is bad about the dual wielding arguement? Most tanking spec will go 5 points into blood, if you put two more points into Two Handed Weapon Specialization you gain 4% more damage with two handers and you have 4 extra points to spend else where.
#7 Jan 27 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
This is an area that commonly confuses death knights. The real appeal that dual wielding gave was variety, the ability to put two different runeforges on your weapons, such as 2% parry and cinder glacier, or fallen crusader and 2% parry (enchants I commonly used). However, with the introduction of nerubian carapace runeforge, that is the tanking enchant. Which makes it equal with stoneskin gargoyle. The only problem that comes with dual wielding is you have to dump 6 talent points to make dual wielding equal to using a two handed weapon.

Nerves of Cold Steel takes 3 talent points. Threat of Thassarian takes 3 points. Niether of these talents increase anything, they just bring dual wielding up to par with using a two handed weapon. Why spend six talent points to make dual wielding equal to using a two handed weapon when you can just use a two handed weapon and save the six talent points? Two hander is the winner here.


You don't understand the nuances of the specs, that's the problem. Instead of explaining it here, just refer to my post in the 2hnd vs dw thread. No reason to repeat myself.

[EDIT]

And you still have not told anyone what the hell a soak tank is.

Edited, Jan 27th 2010 11:19pm by idiggory
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#8 Jan 28 2010 at 12:36 AM Rating: Default
OLD THREAD

The term "Soak Tank" drifted around our server for a little while when patch 3.3 hit as joke referencing tanks who put all 30 stam gems in every slot of their gear and one nightmare tear, andstack all hp and stamina enchants. I had no clue what it meant so I goggle searched it and came across that. After that, the term just kind of stuck with me.

Quote:
In the past we were thought of as the 'soak tank,' in that we didn't have a lot of cooldowns or abilities that could mitigate incoming damage, so we just had to soak it up. As a result, druids are often thought of as having much higher health pools than the other tanks. While this is no longer exactly the case, we do tend to have higher levels of both armor and hp, which leads to druids being though of as progression tanks.


I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that when you dual wield the hit cap goes up to 27% (24% for frost DKs) but I guess your right, I should include that up there and if you don't stack expertise your attacks will get parried.

EDIT: I think the argument works well, saving 6 talent points and getting the same investment if not better is enough to persuade me. :P

Edited, Jan 28th 2010 12:51am by potsoriginal
#9 Jan 28 2010 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Well, this for instance, pots:

My DK tank just dinged 80 the other day and I'm gearing her for heroics now.
She is, and has been, DW Frost since I started seriously playing her at level 70.

Would I get lower or higher threat using a 2-hander?
Would I get lower or higher damage using a 2-hander?

If I understand the mechanics correctly, Rune Strike works off auto-attacks, which I currently get pretty frequently. If my weapon is twice as slow and I only have 1, how much harder is it going to be to [Tab]+RS mobs to keep individual threat up in between AoEs?

I do agree with you that a good DK tank thread is needed. I have come up with very little where I've looked. I'm currently starting to get decent gear with some gem slots (and have a JC with numerous cuts) but am unsure what I should be gemming for.
Red=Str? Dodge? Parry? Attack? Eat the bonus and gem Stam?
Yellow=Hit? Do I need hit? Again with the Stamina question
Blue= Stam is the obvious choice here

I geared my warlock and that is pretty straightforward and the forum here is pretty helpful. Gem hit wherever you can until capped - everything else is Spellpower regardless of socket bonus.

The DK tank is confusing me though =p
A breakdown on gemming and enchant choices would be wonderful.

I do pretty well on her; I can keep aggro, do decent damage, and generally tank well with her. But I'm sure I can do something better.
#10 Jan 28 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
Well, this for instance, pots:

My DK tank just dinged 80 the other day and I'm gearing her for heroics now.
She is, and has been, DW Frost since I started seriously playing her at level 70.

Would I get lower or higher threat using a 2-hander?
Would I get lower or higher damage using a 2-hander?

If I understand the mechanics correctly, Rune Strike works off auto-attacks, which I currently get pretty frequently. If my weapon is twice as slow and I only have 1, how much harder is it going to be to [Tab]+RS mobs to keep individual threat up in between AoEs?

Red=Str? Dodge? Parry? Attack? Eat the bonus and gem Stam?
Yellow=Hit? Do I need hit? Again with the Stamina question
Blue= Stam is the obvious choice here

The DK tank is confusing me though =p
A breakdown on gemming and enchant choices would be wonderful.

I do pretty well on her; I can keep aggro, do decent damage, and generally tank well with her. But I'm sure I can do something better.


Great subject I will touch and explain on them all
#11 Jan 30 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Lordy lordy, no wonder the modern DK has no clue what they're doing. They come to forums for help, see posts like this, and go off and do the WRONG THING.

OK, A, rune strike is procced from AVOIDANCE not from your own attacks. You can sit there using white damage on a target dummy all day and not see a rune proc.

DW tanking was bad. Back in the day before the Rune of the Nerubian Carapace or whatever it is. Now, stick two nice DPS 1H weapons on and watch your threat skyrocket. Parry hasting was bad. A boss could parry your attacks and gain a buff that makes their next attack happen in half the time. Now, bosses in raids have parry hasting disabled (EZMODE GO!). Of the bosses currently available to fight in ICC, none parry haste.

Before you write a guide, get a grasp on the basics of what you're writing about.
#12 Jan 30 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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THANK YOU.

I've been waiting days for another knowledgeable DK to click this link so that I didn't just come off as a jackass. I'm considering writing a real intro guide just to combat this.

Oh, and btw pots, it's customary to ASK before you use someone else's info in your "guide," even when you give them credit.
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#13 Jan 30 2010 at 10:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm thinking in my current downtime in the game I have a few guides I could write. I have raiding time on 6 characters, in a multitude of specs, so I know a little bit about a little bit.

It would just take me much time to write it all, and you know how it is when info takes time....
#14 Jan 30 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I've been waiting days for another knowledgeable DK to click this link so that I didn't just come off as a jackass. I'm considering writing a real intro guide just to combat this.

Well, to be fair, it's not disastrous. It's just written in a... pots way, and lacking. I'll agree that it isn't what I'd want a new DK tank to read (yet, though. I think it can be patched), but it's not like you're going to fail miserably if you follow this 'guide' to the letter. You'll have the basics down. The problem really is mostly that a lot of important things are missing (and the lay out is a bit hazy, I'd do it different personally).
#15 Jan 31 2010 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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Hmmm... I'd suggest you do a great deal more research (with quantitative data) before continuing writing this. Also never post anything that isn't "done" unless you want to be constantly rebuffed and corrected.

In all honesty I feel that DK tanking has been covered in several forums quite well and don't see the point of reiterating the same information even if you posted everything accurately. EJ has (or had?) a very good amount of info for raid tanking, TankSpot clarifies the "effective health" relationship of mitigation/avoidance/stamina, as well as a wealth of forum posts regarding tactics and method of proper tanking.

If you do continue with this I'd suggest re-writing it while keeping in mind that you need to clarify every detail as if your reader has no previous information. Because by and large, they don't. Which is why it's so vital to be sure we only post accurate info.
#16 Feb 01 2010 at 4:57 AM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat, Assassin Reject wrote:
Hmmm... I'd suggest you do a great deal more research...[snip] If you do continue with this I'd suggest re-writing it while keeping in mind that you need to clarify every detail as if your reader has no previous information. Because by and large, they don't. Which is why it's so vital to be sure we only post accurate info.


Also doing this and keeping up with it as patches both big and small change things will make you a better player.

And if you really do it and make it be a really good resource than it will become a sticky.

If that happens I will edit my post and change it to what ever you want. Until then research more, read more and learn more.

Writing a guide is hard, you need to know a shart load of mechanics and random crap to do one. I've done it before and I needed help, but I asked for it on the areas I was weak in and since I asked I got it. Even in that case case I got/researched base knowledge to make it work. Like I know more about a spec of my main class that I will NEVER play than some folks that use that spec as their main. Also I had to go back and double check every thing people that helped said, not because I didn't trust but because I wanted the sticky to be that good.

That is the kind of research you need to do.

Me, I think it's fun. That's why I did it. Plus all the druid stuff was badly out of date and I wanted my forums to have a sticky that was good. I a lot of pride in the druid forums and am very happy with how they are right now. The amount of effort and knowledge and research I have put forth to help make it that way...

You have 3 posts in a row, you can do it. Put in the effort. Do it, for the love baby.
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#17 Feb 01 2010 at 9:02 AM Rating: Decent
Sorry guys, I was taking a break over the weekend working on some art work for my classes.

I collected a couple links and reread some of the ones I have. I am going to keep working on this guide. Idiggory, sorry about that, once again I am just writing this to help people out, I thought it was interesting information so I added it. Once again I apologize. Would you mind if I kept your post in there?
#18 Feb 01 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
jaysgsl wrote:
Lordy lordy, no wonder the modern DK has no clue what they're doing. They come to forums for help, see posts like this, and go off and do the WRONG THING.

OK, A, rune strike is procced from AVOIDANCE not from your own attacks. You can sit there using white damage on a target dummy all day and not see a rune proc.

DW tanking was bad. Back in the day before the Rune of the Nerubian Carapace or whatever it is. Now, stick two nice DPS 1H weapons on and watch your threat skyrocket. Parry hasting was bad. A boss could parry your attacks and gain a buff that makes their next attack happen in half the time. Now, bosses in raids have parry hasting disabled (EZMODE GO!). Of the bosses currently available to fight in ICC, none parry haste.

Before you write a guide, get a grasp on the basics of what you're writing about.


Source?

Because last I checked Gormok was the last boss to not have parry-hasting simply because tanks would occasionally explode when he did (and this can be confirmed with blue posts, it was specifically hotfixed out). I'm near certain I parryhasted Valanar last night, as well, though I have a metric ton of expertise so I don't see it often.

Parryhasting is downplayed because it's not a serious threat in anything but cutting edge raiding where you're really pushing the limits of your gear (read: Herald of the Titans, Dedicated Insanity), not because it doesn't happen.

Edit: Ok, looking here it does appear parryhaste is the exception, not the rule.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=25841&start=0&sid=74f7093dd3fe6c5f6c2ab23a15cb9059&rb_v=viewtopic

Most of the primary encounters in ToC don't, Putricide doesn't, and Marrowgar doesn't. The princes still might, don't see any conclusive data there, but there's a lot going on in that fight so I can't say for certain what exactly I saw.

Still, it's not a completely moot point.

Edited, Feb 1st 2010 4:02pm by Norellicus
#19 Feb 01 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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You may use it if you wish, pots, but I'm going to urge you not to. That was no where NEAR solid enough a description for it to go into a guide. That should give you a point of where we are coming from when we say that guides take a *lot* of research and understanding of mechanics. I wrote that blurb in response to the question, but it includes some opinion, and has no raid* experience supporting it. If I was to include the section in a guide, I would want to look up parses for both specs (first in equal gear, then in more tailored gear). I'd want to compile a list of relevant bosses that use Parry Hasting, and what that would mean for various gear levels.

Another example, did you know that 1% Dodge is superior avoidance to 1% Parry, without even considering the itemization to get them? Did you know that 1% Parry was superior threat to 1% Dodge? Do you know how 1% Miss compares to them?

Do you understand time-to-live, and its relation with other stats, cooldowns and healing? Do you understand how healing and self-healing interact?

Do you understand the specific mechanics of each spec? This goes much deeper than rotations.

I have decent knowledge on all of these. But not anywhere near enough to write a guide, in my opinion. That's why I choose to help, but refer people when their questions require deeper explanations. If you want to write a guide, you'll need to do a LOT more research.

Just looking at your recommended build, it is clear that you have a lot to learn about the class before you can begin to teach others about it.
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#20 Feb 01 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Now, Idiggory, a BASIC guide can be written without that knowledge. A simple guide to start people on the basics should exist. Having absolutely incorrect information in it is the problem here.
#21 Feb 01 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Completely true, but it is much easier to write the basics if you know what you are talking about. Otherwise you are just regurgitating information, and will have no ability to explain it to others, even simply. And it leaves you completely unable to deal with changes Blizzard makes.

Look at the -20% dodge debuff. You had tanks that had PERFECT gemming before 3.3 that were suddenly gemming Parry for ICC, because all they knew was what they were supposed to do, not why. This left them unable to deal with changes. That's the kind of thing you don't want in a guide writer.

And if all you are doing is essentially paraphrasing what another guide tells you, it's better to just link to that one in the first place.
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#22 Feb 01 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You may use it if you wish, pots, but I'm going to urge you not to. That was no where NEAR solid enough a description for it to go into a guide.

"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one."

Without trying to get on your balls Diggory, what should a guide look like in your eyes? Just write us, say, an index. That would do more to help Pots along rather than repeatedly telling him he's not suited for the job.

Also, I agree with Jay - I think I would be able to write a decent tanking DK guide and I have next to no tanking experience. And 90% of what I wrote in the priest forums has come forth more from basic knowledge and leveling to 80 plus doing heroics rather than because I raid a lot. We might as well give Pots a chance.

Edit: Spellings are for morans.

Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 2:51am by Mozared
#23 Feb 01 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with Moz and Jays on this one.

I understand Idig's point of view, and it's not without merit. He's just getting way farther in-depth than what I think I was hoping to see.

Basics. Simple stuff. EJ (or other places if they exist) are fine for that super-mathy, bleeding-edge kind of stuff. I've read EJ's DW Frost thread. Or parts at least ~650 posts starting from 13 months ago is not real easy (or even relevant) to sift through.

But that's kinda my point.

I just want to know what kind of weapons I should be shooting for. Currently have 2 tanking weapons but swear I saw somewhere that dps weapons are better. I don't know any place to go for a simple answer. Or (again) would a 2handed build work better?

These and the sort of basic questions I asked above are the sort of thing a basic guide could cover without going into what happens if X happens during Y boss battle when I have A, B, and C in my party for a battle I'll probably never even see. Not that it isn't relevant or interesting, but it's way beyond "basic."
#24 Feb 01 2010 at 11:40 PM Rating: Default
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A. The line you quoted Moz was specifically regarding the post of *mine* that pots was using. I was saying that, while I give him permission to use it, I don't think *my* post was good enough for a guide as, while I think it's fairly correct, I am not certain of it. If I'm not certain, there's a good chance there is some misinformation in it. Misinformation should never be put into a guide if it can be helped.

I fail to see how saying he shouldn't rely on my post is attacking the guide as a whole. Whether or not I think it is folly is besides the point. Pots was not the author of that section, I was. And, as such, I'm perfectly within my rights to say it probably isn't guide worthy.

And, since you want an index, something like this:

I. Intro (to DK Tanking)
II. Specs, Rotations and Quirks.
-A1. Recommended Blood Spec
-A2. Blood Rotation.
-A3. Blood's Quirks (would discuss pros/cons, self-healing, small gearing differences)
-B1. Unholy Spec
-B2. Unholy Rotation.
-B3. Unholy Quirks (similar to Blood, with an additional comment regarding specific talents, such as AMZ).
-C1. Frost vs. DW-Pick which one you think sounds more fun.
-C2. Frost vs. DW-the more nitty-gritty pros/cons if you really care.
-D1. 2hnd Frost spc
-D2. 2hnd Frost "Rotation"
-D3. 2hnd Frost quirks (mostly a note on priorities and how they will work with a rotation, since tanking tends to work better with one in my experience).
-E1. DW spec
-E2. DW "Rotation"
-E3. DW Quirks (basically the same as 2-hand, with slight differences).
III. The abilities you need to learn to love, and they'll love you back.
-A. Rune Strike and you (teach you what to macro it into, how to macro it, why you want to use it, and why you want to use it often).
-B. Strangulate. The most wonderful way to pull in casters ever, that no DK tanks I ever party with use...
-C. Mind Freeze. Tell me again why you Frost Striking was better than interrupting that cast?
-D. Death Grip/Dark Command. When to use which, and why.
-E. DnD. How to use it, when to use it and an additional aside on when to use it as Frost (and how).
Etc. (ERW, BT, CDs, HoW and any others I've forgotten atm).
IV. The Hit Table.
V. Specific Gearing
-A. Defense to 540 and why you need it.
-B. Simple answer (Gem for stam, except when a socket bonus.... yadda, yadda, yadds).
-C. Complicated answer (why you gem for x, y, z).
-D. How to figure out what you need, and what is an upgrade.
-E. T9 and T10 socket bonuses, and whether or not you want them.
-F. Threat.
-G. Enchants by slot.
-H. Set one of enchants, for when you first start and need Def.
-I. Ser two of enchants, for when your gear alone makes you Def capped.
-J. Runeforges.
-K. Consumables.
VI. Tips and Tricks.
VII. Addons and you.

I feel like I'm missing something, but that is what I would expect (at least) from a BASIC guide to tanking. It doesn't require ANY big numbers. It just requires you know what you are talking about, and to have done a lot of research. Guides should at least have a rudimentary "long explanation" even if it won't go into time to live and all that jazz. You can explain these things fairly simply so that your audience has a loose idea of what they need without having to go into deep math (that not everyone will get). But, of course, YOU still need to understand these things to include that.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#25 Feb 02 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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67 posts
idiggory wrote:
Pots was not the author of that section, I was. And, as such, I'm perfectly within my rights to say it probably isn't guide worthy.


OK, 2 things really quick, first of all, pots, I like the style of the guide, much more simple than most other guides I've read, I tried reading the EJ guides, and when they start to get into math and proofs and such, my eyes glaze over and I begin to wonder if any of my favorite webcomics have updated. Easy to read, offers explanations and presents it as his opinions and experiences, even if the title's somewhat more ... ambitious than that.

Second of all, diggs, man, relax! Whew, remember man, this is the intarwebz, you gave up all "rights" to what you said when you posted it here on the public boards. Don't take things so seriously.

Hope you get around to Blood or Unholy tank soon, pots, those ones are my two favorite specs and I like to see what ideas other people have on tanking in Blood or even Unholy, even though Blizz shot that spec to hell for tanking.
#26 Feb 02 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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3,157 posts
People are putting me in the wrong camp here :D

I am saying that this post should NOT be titled "DK Tanking Guide" at all. It should be titled "Minor observances to DK tanking" and should have been lain out as a reply to Dig's original post, not as a whole new topic.

I like that format for a tanking guide, I'm working on it right now, if you don't mind me using a rough equivalent to your format?
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