Low Level DnD = GAHFollow

Blizz REALLY needs to make DnD level 58 instead of 60. Why? Because for the last 4 levels, every single tank I've had on my Mage has been a DK. And NONE of them know what they are doing. And, even if they did, they still don't have DnD (or, in the case of Frost, Oblit OR Howling Blast).

Makes for SLOOOOOOOW parties where I pull hate with my first Frost Bolt 10 seconds in. >.<

So, pretty please Blizz? DnD at 58 would make this stretch (when dungeons actually start getting harder, due to them once being 60 endgame, and are mostly very long) much, much more pleasant.

And OMG now I know why people have such bad, long-lasting opinions of DKs. I just left a party where the DK tank did nothing but Death Strike every so often. When I told him to put up diseases he said "How?"

GRRRRRRRRRRRR.

You've had 3 levels to learn this. Did you even READ the ability descriptions? That's like not knowing how to put up combo points as a Rogue by level 10.

The funny thing is, I remember when I rolled my first serious DK. I had absolutely no clue htf the class worked and I had to thoroughly read the tooltips of all my abilities carefully to find out how to play. But when I got the hang of it, I couldn't even remember how I had found this vague to begin with - it all makes so much sense; put up diseases, use main attack, dump runic power. I guess that if your brain is working correctly, you simply need to hit that switch that makes you go "oooh, like that!' - and the Death Tards are obviously the ones who haven't found it yet.

I think you're being pretty critical. True, there are plenty of less than skilled players running around on their DKs, but we all know that already. Other tanking classes don't even start tanking dungeons until they've had at least 15 levels of experience, and they have way fewer abilities to manage and weaker dps to contend with for hate. Thus the learning curve is quite a bit steeper for DKs, especially tanks. Now you can say, "anyone playing a DK has a higher level toon and a certain amount of knowledge is to be expected", while that's true, the resource system DKs utilize is more complex than any other class, and certainly more difficult to manage than mana.

At the core of the matter, a level 58 shouldn't even be tanking in outlands anyway. The bosses are level 62. The only reason a DK might be able to hang is that they start off with pretty good gear. Prior to the introduction of DK, any player who wasn't decked in epics from original content would be expected to run a bunch of quests in outlands to gear up a bit and grab a few levels.

I have to agree with Petrazure, you're being pretty critical of a problem that...isn't that much of a problem, if your party knows what they're doing.



...





...could have fooled me.



Sorry, but Death Knight's resource system is vastly more complicated than pretty much any other. There isn't a single other class that has such a synergistic system of "X then Y then Z" tuned in such a way that missing a single step of the process causes incredible losses to your efficiency, especially in raids where other classes often cover buffs if you miss one. Death Knight doesn't have that luxury and most of their damage boosting capabilities are reliant on making sure very specific conditions are met; having to do so with the limitation of 6 10-second cooldowns only complicates it further.

Every class has some optimizing that can be done, you can't just blindly push buttons and be at the top of your game, but most if not all of them are more check-and-balance related. It took me rolling two DKs to understand the finer points of it, between the management of Death Runes and using them properly and using your Runic Power effectively. The starter areas are fun but don't introduce your abilities in an intuitive order such as to spoon-feed you the proper methodology for your battle rhythm, and this problem is more pronounced and exasperated when trying to tank.


As for your Mage woes, if you're pulling hate with a single Frostbolt then you either have a bad tank and no amount of DnD or other magic threat tools will help, or you're targeting something the tank isn't. And really, boo frickin hoo if you can't Blizzard your way through it. Gauge your tank, react accordingly. It may not be optimal, but I promise trying to blitz your way along and having repeat deaths is a lot slower than simply working with your group's momentum.

Edited, Jan 25th 2010 8:26am by Norellicus