I went to Elitist Jerks website and looked up DK Dual Weild tanking. I got this spec from their websites.
Manchetick
Before reading on EJ about Dual Weild tanking, my spec was something I made up on my own, but it seemed to be working. I glyphed Howling Blast, and then used the Frost Fever from that as my only disease. A typical fight looked something like this:
D&D->HB->BB->priorities
By the time my first Blood Boil was cast, I had aggro on everything in sight and good luck getting it off me.
After reading on EJ, I changed my spec and glyphs. I like the spec, but I'm not to sure about the glyphs. As you can see, I got rid of the Howling Blast glyph. What I read on EJ said that using a single disease is no longer a feasible way to max out your threat. So now my fights look something like this:
D&D->IT->PS->Pest->scramble
I put "scramble" at the end because it seems now I can't maintain aggro anymore. I've found that in a group of 4, at least one will be running away, at which time I target that one, taunt it back, only to find another mob wandering off.
I'm wondering if maybe EJ was wrong and I should reglyph Howling Blast and go back to my old priority list. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong? I would appreciate any insight.
Edited, Jan 15th 2010 10:04am by Manchetick
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The reason they say that single disease is no longer norm is because they buffed the "per disease" damage a while back. It was not only to take on the single-disease users, but also the diseaseless blood people.
Just my opinion, but I'd drop IBF glyph and use the HB one instead. Use your old rotation for grabbing aggro, then if everything isn't dead, switch to the new rotation to maintain threat. Yes dual disease will give you much more sustained threat, but you're not asking about sustained threat, you're asking about snap aggro. They're completely different.
I also would change your cloak enchant from armor to defense. Yes it may look on the surface that armor would give you more mitigation, but IBF damage reduction is based off the amount of defense, and the damage reduction does not stop increasing when you hit 540. It is my understanding that GC said it really has no ceiling (though I'd still keep using health to chest) and while it does have a cap, there was no possible way to get enough defense to actually reach the IBF damage-reduction cap (I would assume the cap is 100% then). By the same token I'd switch the enchant on your main hand to also defense for the same reason.
Just my opinion, but I'd drop IBF glyph and use the HB one instead. Use your old rotation for grabbing aggro, then if everything isn't dead, switch to the new rotation to maintain threat. Yes dual disease will give you much more sustained threat, but you're not asking about sustained threat, you're asking about snap aggro. They're completely different.
I also would change your cloak enchant from armor to defense. Yes it may look on the surface that armor would give you more mitigation, but IBF damage reduction is based off the amount of defense, and the damage reduction does not stop increasing when you hit 540. It is my understanding that GC said it really has no ceiling (though I'd still keep using health to chest) and while it does have a cap, there was no possible way to get enough defense to actually reach the IBF damage-reduction cap (I would assume the cap is 100% then). By the same token I'd switch the enchant on your main hand to also defense for the same reason.
Quote:
D&D->IT->PS->Pest->scramble
Just blood tap and blood boil after your put up pestilence. Once you get your FU runes back up you're looking at your first HB with possibly a freezing fog proc.
11 posts
I appreciate your thoughts on the subject. Thank you very much for your input.
I understand what you are saying here, however, everything I've read indicates that going above 540 defense is a waste of points. Not a terrible waste (like increase spell power would be), but those stats would be better served in mitigation or avoidance. I've read countless threads with people responding with something like "you're 5 points above def cap. You should change X gem to stam or dodge".
This would be fabulous, and in a raid setting may work well where you're all communicating and trying to be on the same page, but I also run a lot of random heroics. Pretty much as soon as my D&D drops, the dps twitches and goes balls to the wall. Often, there isn't even time to spread my diseases before I lose one of the mobs.
I kinda like Dilbrt's suggestion of getting my Howling Blast glyph back and using the old starting sequence for the "snap" aggro and then on longer fights or even single target fights, I could switch to the new starting sequence. I'll give it a try tonight and see how it goes.
Once again, I really do appreciate your input.
Quote:
I also would change your cloak enchant from armor to defense. Yes it may look on the surface that armor would give you more mitigation, but IBF damage reduction is based off the amount of defense, and the damage reduction does not stop increasing when you hit 540. It is my understanding that GC said it really has no ceiling (though I'd still keep using health to chest) and while it does have a cap, there was no possible way to get enough defense to actually reach the IBF damage-reduction cap (I would assume the cap is 100% then). By the same token I'd switch the enchant on your main hand to also defense for the same reason.
I understand what you are saying here, however, everything I've read indicates that going above 540 defense is a waste of points. Not a terrible waste (like increase spell power would be), but those stats would be better served in mitigation or avoidance. I've read countless threads with people responding with something like "you're 5 points above def cap. You should change X gem to stam or dodge".
Quote:
Just blood tap and blood boil after your put up pestilence. Once you get your FU runes back up you're looking at your first HB with possibly a freezing fog proc.
This would be fabulous, and in a raid setting may work well where you're all communicating and trying to be on the same page, but I also run a lot of random heroics. Pretty much as soon as my D&D drops, the dps twitches and goes balls to the wall. Often, there isn't even time to spread my diseases before I lose one of the mobs.
I kinda like Dilbrt's suggestion of getting my Howling Blast glyph back and using the old starting sequence for the "snap" aggro and then on longer fights or even single target fights, I could switch to the new starting sequence. I'll give it a try tonight and see how it goes.
Once again, I really do appreciate your input.
I'm not saying gem for defense, your gem slots would be better as stam. I'm saying use the defense to cloak and defense weapon enchants. Especially the weapon (you could make a case for armor, not a good one, but still a case). Not only are you increasing the effectiveness of IBF, but you're also getting stam out of it.
In my experience frost tanking in current content the HB glyph and Blood Boil seems to be giving me more reliable threat (esp. early on) in packs compared to IT/PS/Pest which will lead to a valley in TPS on every other mob in the pack. Remember that Blood Boil's bonus damage comes from the target having a disease, no additional benefit to targets with 2 diseases.
On single targets of course it's IT/PS rather than HB. But in groups I'm still better off with HB/BB after the initial DnD.
On single targets of course it's IT/PS rather than HB. But in groups I'm still better off with HB/BB after the initial DnD.
On another note;
Mark your main target with the skull and simply tell people to go for it first. If you're pulling groups of 4 mobs and you are chronically losing at least two, then your DPS are really stretching it. You shouldn't lose aggro from your main target after an IT, a PS and some melee hits, which means that for you to lose aggro on two mobs the DPS are all attacking a seperate target. And the only class I could imagine outthreating you with pure AOE would be a fury warrior.
Edited, Jan 16th 2010 4:38am by Mozared
Quote:
I put "scramble" at the end because it seems now I can't maintain aggro anymore. I've found that in a group of 4, at least one will be running away, at which time I target that one, taunt it back, only to find another mob wandering off.
Mark your main target with the skull and simply tell people to go for it first. If you're pulling groups of 4 mobs and you are chronically losing at least two, then your DPS are really stretching it. You shouldn't lose aggro from your main target after an IT, a PS and some melee hits, which means that for you to lose aggro on two mobs the DPS are all attacking a seperate target. And the only class I could imagine outthreating you with pure AOE would be a fury warrior.
Edited, Jan 16th 2010 4:38am by Mozared
I've been DW tanking for a while and I have encontered only 2 situations (out of my control) where I loose aggro from time to time
1) Players that average 5k dps and more
2) Players that start dpsing before I even put D&D up
Beside of that, if you're well geared (easily obtainable with the new LFG and the 3 new 5 man dungeon), no one is going to steal aggro from you. For good measure, you can put down another D&D during the fight if you feel that you're going to loose aggro or someone overpull. Dark command and Death grip is always available for those pesky Lock that pull 18k shadow bolt!
I would not replace my HB glyph. If I really need to put the full disease on, I do it on the second rotation pass.
Khross
1) Players that average 5k dps and more
2) Players that start dpsing before I even put D&D up
Beside of that, if you're well geared (easily obtainable with the new LFG and the 3 new 5 man dungeon), no one is going to steal aggro from you. For good measure, you can put down another D&D during the fight if you feel that you're going to loose aggro or someone overpull. Dark command and Death grip is always available for those pesky Lock that pull 18k shadow bolt!
I would not replace my HB glyph. If I really need to put the full disease on, I do it on the second rotation pass.
Khross
I have my DK dw Frost tanking now at level 75 and trying to find a workable opening as well.
-Stand at max range from pack
-Target caster/ranged
-Lay down D&D + Deathgrip
-PS (while the other mobs run to me)
-HB
-Pestilence . .but sometimes I don't seem to have the runes for it
-BB . . .same issue
I seem to be doing fine and rarely lose aggro on anything. I usually put out ~1k dps and keep mobs glued to me. But it seems I do an awful lot of waiting for something to pop and my rotation/priority can be cleaned up a lot. Once I have everything on me I use HB, BB, or Pestilence as often as possible for AoE threat and Runestrike + either Oblit, Frost or Blood strike (because that's what's available.)
Seems to be a bit whack-a-mole according to what happens to be up at the time. It's been working fine, but I'm sure there's a better way.
-Stand at max range from pack
-Target caster/ranged
-Lay down D&D + Deathgrip
-PS (while the other mobs run to me)
-HB
-Pestilence . .but sometimes I don't seem to have the runes for it
-BB . . .same issue
I seem to be doing fine and rarely lose aggro on anything. I usually put out ~1k dps and keep mobs glued to me. But it seems I do an awful lot of waiting for something to pop and my rotation/priority can be cleaned up a lot. Once I have everything on me I use HB, BB, or Pestilence as often as possible for AoE threat and Runestrike + either Oblit, Frost or Blood strike (because that's what's available.)
Seems to be a bit whack-a-mole according to what happens to be up at the time. It's been working fine, but I'm sure there's a better way.
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